Originally posted by Steve Harvey:
OK, I get it now. Well, sorta. I watched Surviving Edged Weapons yesterday. I should say, I get everything but the statements denigrating traditional FMA.
Well if I had done "Surviving Edged Weapons" instead of "Surviving a Street Knife Fight." I'd probably agree with you.
Let's see if we're talking the same tapes, one short dark long haired fuzzy guy in black. On tall paler, salt and peppered long hair in tan (color choice for contrast and so people can see, not to imply paramilitary). Little guy getting put through the studio wall when he tries to "Fight" the guy with a knife? If this is the video we're talking about my video. If we're talking fishhooks in the pants cuff its the other one.
The speed and devastation of a knife attack is well represented. Mr. MacYoung taught the majority of the concepts without a knife in his hand at all.
That's because of the five times I was attacked with a knife, I only was able to deploy mine once. Amazingly enough by jumping back and drawing mine.
However, it didn't turn into a "knife fight" my opponent realizing that I too was armed and slightly miffed at his attempted disembowlment of me decided descretion was the better part of valour and beat feet. I, not being overly interested in being carved up, didn't follow him and press the issue.
See he didn't want to knife fight, he just wanted to kill me with the least amount of risk to himself. Fighting would have meant risk to self. After checking with many other "experienced" individuals, I was to learn that this reaction is not uncommon. What also came to light is that, like myself, most had experienced ambushes totally unlike what most people "Think" a knife attack is -- much less train to handle.
But I came away feeling that the case against traditional FMA was a bit over stated, both on the tape, and here on this forum.
Traditional or what is being taught these days? I beleive I explained the difference between what I utterly respect about the FMA and its applicability and effectiveness in the hands of the older maestros (and under the circumstances they used them under) and much of the misfocused attention on unrealistic techniques that I feel many self-appointed knife fighting "experts" are promoting.
>A good deal of Surviving Edged Weapons was dedicated to sound footwork to move back out of the range of an attack and to angle away from an attack (principles that are deeply ingrained in FMA, complete with a discussion >of male vs. female angling).
I didn't say it didn't work. In fact, I know from first hand experience how effective it is. Granted I stumbled onto the concept myself and was just thrilled and delighted to discover that not only did others have similar concepts, but these guys had names for them too!
I used the FMA terms to clearly communicate the concepts and principles that I knew were not only effective, but critical to survival.
However, I have also seen people spill out their guts in the streets. Amazingly enough, these were people who were too excited by all the things they were going to do to their opponent and decided to forgo this little detail about footwork.
Now maybe the art you play in emphasizes this subject, but I hate to tell you this, most don't. I was appalled recently when I walked into a TKD school where the "sticks" teacher had attended several Remy Presas seminars (how this qualified him to teach sticks, I have no idea, but teaching he was).
Anyway, I spotted a slight problem with his work and I asked him, what was his footwork system. He looked at me and asked me "what footwork system?" I couldn't beleive this, I reconfirmed that he had indeed attended several seminars. He said yes. I asked him "And you were never taught footwork?" He said no.
In light of the fact that I have never attended these seminars, I don't know if he was telling me the truth or just his perception of the truth. Or if footwork is kept out of seminars, but taught at the motherschool. What I can tell you however is this guy had no clue about footwork.
Later when I went to my kali guru and told him this, he responded, "Kali without footwork is like TKD without kicking" I agree wholeheartedly, yet having attended several mixed style kali tournaments here in the States, in every one that I attended,the footwork sucked. They were too focused on playing whippy stick and hitting, rather than avoiding being hit.
Additionally, a significant part of the tape covered basic traditional block and pary techniques, just like we practice in class every week.
BTW, I did my tapes before I started playing with Kali and, I might add, the current FMA craze. I learned my knife work in a barrio in Los Angeles and supplimented it with sword work. When it comes to knife fighting, the FMA are not Sinanju and all other knife fighting pale shadows of inferior races aping the movements of the sun source. Other people know how to handle a blade too. In fact, a few of them even invaded and conquered the Philipines.
My choice of terms comes from the fact that the FMA have some of the most effective organization and simple communication of certain critical concepts of blade work. Not that these concepts are not known elsewhere; Or that I was peddling regurgitated FMA. They are and I wasn't.
So why the beef against traditional FMA? I don't see the conflict myself.
Do you look out your window and see "Welcome to Cebu City?" I am not saying it isn't a valid technque, I'm just saying you are going to have one h**l of a time explaining it to the judge. Different cultures, different laws and different standards, don't expect one to be transplanted to the other without some serious modification of intent and techniques. And oh, yeah, knifers attack differently here in the states too.
>Hock Hockheim does the same thing. He tells you traditional FMA will get you killed, and then sells you a video tape full of FMA-based knife techniques.
Number one I am not Hock. Number two, have you ever gone out and tested all those things that are supposedly valid techinques? All that trapping, locking, gunting, abinikos, etc. that has become so popular in what is being taught? The elements I teach are what I have found not only to be effective,but highly underemphasized. I do not teach esoteric fluff to fill the tapes.
>Good teacher, good techniques, but I just don't get the hype >against traditional FMA.
Practice it as a *martial art* and there is no beef. Don't think it qualifies you as a knife fighter though. The FMA are designed to work in a different place and with different problems than what you will encounter in a dark parking lot. You may not think so, but the difference between theory and practice is in theory there is no difference.
In Rudyard Kiplings the monkeys had a grand old time chanting to themselves "It is so because we say it is so" that pretty well sums up my feeling about people calling themselves "Knife Fighters" because they study the FMA. There are significant and deadly differences. I know because I have experience with both.
Maybe the real bone of contention is sparring, as in a duel? I can see where a legitimate claim against the practicality >for the street of that could be made.
I have a student who is, like myself, a reformed streetrat. He is currently up training with some other people who insist on drilling and sparring. He came back to me and said "What's weird is if you know the application, those drills are good for refining it. But if you don't know what you are doing already, they encourage all sorts of bad habits."
Basically what he was talking abut is focus and proportion. Without real time experience it is hard to adjudge proportion. It all looks equally valid. However this is like cooking chili with putting one pound of everything in. A recipe works because of proportion, some elements are more, some are less.
The same can be said about blade work, you have to know what is most important and what is secondary. And if they all are assigned equal value, or something oe lesser import is overemphasized you have a disaster.
All in all, I think you are misunderstanding my point. I am not against FMA, I greatly respect them and I use the terms and concepts that are useful and succicent. I especially respect the old timers who have survived via its uses. However, I strongly caution you not to think that you are being taught exactly what your teacher's teacher's teacher used to survive. Nor that skill in one arena automatically translates into another, even if they look similiar.
Louis L'amour once said "Adventure is just a romantic name for trouble. It sounds exciting reading about it in the comfort of your arm chair at home, but it is pure h**l when it comes at you in some dark and lonely place."
Recognize that this is not a game to me. I am not getting my ya-yas by claiming to be a knife fighter. I have never met a professional knife fighter and to the best of my knowledge there is no such critter. I don't feel superior because I study the ultimate blade art. It is not a mark of macho that I am the master of deadly blade arts.
That's because I remember what it felt like to be curled up in corner after puking my guts out from terror and adrenaline after someone tried to kill me. Not really a dashing and adventurous superman at all. Just someone who knows what he did to survive and why a lot of the stuff being peddled to an unsuspecting public, will in fact, get them killed against someone with a modicum of skill with a blade.
