Is Jesus God?

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Ultimate said:
I'm not sure what you are asking. Are you asking why do we need proof that a God exists? Well...stabman, the earth is flat; be careful not to fall off. (You probably don't believe me since I have provided no proof that the earth is flat.)
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But you also aren't using a book which extolls the virtues of FAITH IN THE ABSENCE OF PROOF AS A VIRTUE.
That's what makes it odd.
Read the Bible...it's chock full of faithy goodness, not demands for proof (with few exceptions).
 
stabman said:
But you also aren't using a book which extolls the virtues of FAITH IN THE ABSENCE OF PROOF AS A VIRTUE.
That's what makes it odd.
Read the Bible...it's chock full of faithy goodness, not demands for proof (with few exceptions).
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I didn't say the Bible demanded proof.
I haven't said this either but I'll say it now: I demand proof. Faith means nothing to me. (That is not supposed to sound as nasty as it is written)
 
bennyb said:
The religious figures of the time didn't like him because they had they're own rule system (not the holy bible) that they felt reconciled them to God. The problem with that is, they are man-made. These rule-books don't claim to be divine books written by prophets. The old and new testament do both claim to be divinely written by God through men. Esav talked earlier about one of these rule-books that contain 613 commandments written by men. This is the problem I have with Judaism. They seem to be following the rules of man rather than the rules of God.
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Are you kidding me?

"The old and new testament do both claim to be divinely written by God through men." So how do you get to say the New was really divinely inspired but the Old was just "one of these rule-books that contain 613 commandments written by men"?

The book with the 613 commandments is the Torah, the Five Books of Moses.

Show a little courtesy, or do a little research, or stick to blowing your own horn. You are not up to playing anyone else's music.

You can say what you please about your own faith, but it is showing very poor faith to comment on someone else's without knowing what you are talking about.
 
stabman said:
That'd be a better one, especially as this is (maybe?) a knife forum.:D
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I figured most people here would get that (if they know of Buster Warenskies Jewel of the Orient). If they don't know about the Jewel of the Orient, they best be doin' some Googlin' post haste!!!:D
 
Ultimate said:
I don't know either, fellow Andrew. I'm just guessing. The way you put it, religion sounds like hard work. Maybe that's why I don't care for it!
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Well, maybe not such hard work as it used to be. These days I see it as more of a hobby for most, an avocation for some.

Andy
 
Ultimate said:
I didn't say the Bible demanded proof.
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I know you didn't say that.
But a book which says that proof is irrelevant is used by many as proof of the existence of the God described in the book, and then they look for extra proof to back that up.
That's the oddity I see in all of this.
 
Didn't L Ron Hubbard claim to be both God and Buddha? If he's right, then he's both God and not-God, as concepts of God are inherently samsaric.
 
jasonp said:
I'm a Christian; meaning I believe Jesus died for my sins. This is very important to me (as it should be for all) because I sin like a SOB. ...I cuss, been in loads of fist fights and generally mean as hell. At the end of the day however, I accept my faults as being human and I ask Jesus for forgiveness.
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Christians in a nutshell!
 
stabman said:
I know you didn't say that.
But a book which says that proof is irrelevant is used by many as proof of the existence of the God described in the book, and then they look for extra proof to back that up.
That's the oddity I see in all of this.
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I see what you're saying now. It seems like we are more or less on the same page :thumbup:
 
Christians do not always want to tell non-believers about their faith in Jesus. Most people don't enjoy telling someone something that they know will not be well received. This is especially true when we are talking about the subject of faith in an unseen God. Christians are commanded to tell other people what they consider to be "the good news" by their faith. They feel compelled to do so by God. They feel that the blood of the non-believer will be on their hands if they do not at the very least make an attempt to tell them the remarkable and very personal truth that they have experienced. So I would encourage non-Christians to try to not be offended when Christians try to share with them the basis of their faith. It's a difficult thing to do to step outside your comfort zone and share the message of Christ. Passages like Luke 15:3-6 compel Christians to evangelize.

Then Jesus told them this parable: "Suppose one of you has a hundred sheep and loses one of them. Doesn’t he leave the ninety-nine in the open country and go after the lost sheep until he finds it? And when he finds it, he joyfully puts it on his shoulders and goes home. Then he calls his friends and neighbors together and says, ‘Rejoice with me; I have found my lost sheep.’"
 
Ultimate said:
I see what you're saying now. It seems like we are more or less on the same page :thumbup:
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Quite likely.
Although I do admit to being a fan of religion...all of them.
I just don't think any of them are true.
 
Here's the way I see it: If there really is a God, he would forgive me for not believing in him given that he has not put forth any evidence whatsoever of his existence in the first place. If God is rational, he should understand my skepticism, should he not?

P.S. Faith has nothing to do with this. If God exists and is truly the creator of everything, then God invented science. Which means he knows that people (humans) need empirical evidence to support claims. Therefore, he shouldn't expect humans to rely on faith to believe in him.
 
awh said:
Christians do not always want to tell non-believers about their faith in Jesus. Most people don't enjoy telling someone something that they know will not be well received. This is especially true when we are talking about the subject of faith in an unseen God. Christians are commanded to tell other people what they consider to be "the good news" by their faith. They feel compelled to do so by God. They feel that the blood of the non-believer will be on their hands if they do not at the very least make an attempt to tell them the remarkable and very personal truth that they have experienced. So I would encourage non-Christians to try to not be offended when Christians try to share with them the basis of their faith. It's a difficult thing to do to step outside your comfort zone and share the message of Christ. Passages like Luck 15:3-6 compel Christians to evangelize.

Then Jesus told them this parable: "Suppose one of you has a hundred sheep and loses one of them. Doesn’t he leave the ninety-nine in the open country and go after the lost sheep until he finds it? And when he finds it, he joyfully puts it on his shoulders and goes home. Then he calls his friends and neighbors together and says, ‘Rejoice with me; I have found my lost sheep.’
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I 'bout had the blood of a believer on my hands that time on that plane during that six hour flight when that fella just couldn't shut up about it. I can take a bit of friendly conversation. Six hours of non-stop evangelism.... was just about my limit. Dude couldn't take a hint.

Sorry, but I really don't care if y'all feel compelled. Silence is still Golden.

Andy
 
Ultimate said:
Here's the way I see it: If there really is a God, he would forgive me for not believing in him given that he has not put forth any evidence whatsoever of his existence in the first place. If God is rational, he should understand my skepticism, should he not?

P.S. Faith has nothing to do with this. If God exists and is truly the creator of everything, then God invented science. Which means he knows that people (humans) need empirical evidence to support claims. Therefore, he shouldn't expect humans to rely on faith to believe in him.
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That would seem reasonable, would it not?

But there exists no word from a deity which did not first issue from the mouth of Man. Therein lies the flaw.

Andy
 
Religious freedom is a fundamental human right that I firmly believe in.

That said, I find it quite irritating when religion has to assert itself into other domains to satisfy its craving for legitimacy beyond the spiritual. I studied Archaeology at university for my first year and no, you cannot use the Bible as a historical text. As a religious text its just fine but claiming that the historical record supports biblical evidents is just factually incorrect. Much like Creationism and irreducible complexity and other complete guff. Evolution is based in observation, critical thought and absolutely mountains of evidence in the historical record (not to mention observations of the development of currently living species over the last 100 years!). The deliberate spreading of misinformation to adults is one thing but teaching this to our children is abhorrent. It's a threat to critical thinking, the most basic and fundamental tool we have as a species.

Every person should be free to find beliefs as they see fit, whatever religion (well, perhaps not death cults now that I think about it), and their relationship with the supernatural can be an extremely positive force, as it is in a great many peoples lives. It's a matter of faith and doesn't need legitimacy - it already has that within each believer. So let it stay within the realms of the spiritual where it belongs.
 
How about a little humor to lighten things up?

I heard the door bell ring and when I opened the door there was a young couple. The were Jehovah's Witnesses. They said that they wanted to talk to me about Jesus.
Since I had nothing better to do, I invited them in and we sat in the living room. They looked at me and they looked at each other. "So", I asked, "What do you want
to talk about?" The looked a bit confused and said, "We don't know. We have never gotten this far before."

As I said, a little humor. Very little.:D
 
UffDa said:
How about a little humor to lighten things up?

I heard the door bell ring and when I opened the door there was a young couple. The were Jehovah's Witnesses. They said that they wanted to talk to me about Jesus.
Since I had nothing better to do, I invited them in and we sat in the living room. They looked at me and they looked at each other. "So", I asked, "What do you want
to talk about?" The looked a bit confused and said, "We don't know. We have never gotten this far before."

As I said, a little humor. Very little.:D
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A little more........

We live in the country and have a few goats. One of them is a big ol' Boer wether. Harmless, but HUGE! Very friendly.

Buncha JWs roll up to the door, but Momo (the goat) greets their vehicle and begins circling it.

The JWs, all women ('bout five) don't get out, but begin honking their car horn.

I let'em sit for a bit, then open the front door.

One of 'em rolls down the car window, and asks if the goat is dangerous.

I tell her, "He is. He's quite a butter!"

She asks me if I could put him up, so they could get out of the car.

"No, ma'am. You can talk to him through the window!"

And I went back in the house. I guess they left, never saw them again.

Andy
 
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