Is "Scales" a Misnomer?

In The London Knife Book, An A-Z Guide to London Cutlers 1820-1945 and British And Commonwealth Military Knives, author Ron Flook refers to 'Scales'.
 
supratentorial said:
Common usage does shape meaning but the urban dictionary hasn't replaced the Oxford dictionary... yet. ;) Even now, some book terms are collector terms that were never used in the industry.

In the case of material providers, the materials are provided for both fixed blades and pocket knives. The quote from Eric makes a distinction in the terms for both. The materials provider may not make that distinction or have any interest in history.

I think history is uniquely relevant to traditional knives compared to other knives.

GEC thought it was worthwhile to use the old terms as they try to "continually strive to make our pocket knives reminiscent of that era, an improbable task without the use of bygone manufacturing, but also, a bygone terminology."

GEC says
"Just as with all other types of manufacturing, there are names and terms specifically used in the cutlery industry. We use it here at Great Eastern Cutlery on an everyday basis. This terminology from 100 years ago was conveyed by highly skilled cutlers from one cutlery company to another throughout their careers. But in the 21st century, skilled cutlery workers are nearly nonexistent, and there are no trade schools for cutlery manufacturing, so new employees here at Great Eastern Cutlery have the difficult task of not only learning the manufacturing process but also the terminology. The Knife Makers Who Went West by Harvey Platts is an excellent book to read about the cutlery manufacturing history in the United States. The book follows the lives of four generations of the Platts family in the cutlery industry. A portion of that book that includes pocket knife assembly diagrams and terminology handed down through generations is copied below. We use the same terminology here at Great Eastern Cutlery."

From GEC's terminology:
Cover
The slab of material that forms the side of a knife handle. “Covering” refers to the manufacturing operation of fastening the cover to the handle scale.

Scale
The lining or side of a pocket knife, usually made of brass. The scale usually has a cover attached on the outside, but on some knives the scale also functions as a cover. A “center” scale is assembled in the middle of each knife to separate the operating parts from each other. A center scale can be full scale or a cut-out scale that has the front part cut out. A “cut-out” scale may also be placed in the side of a knife to provide more working clearance for the blade.
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Really good post Jake and yes the urban dictionary has not replaced the oxford dictionary but some of our urban jargon has now been included. These two links are to the Online Oxford dictionary both are for phrases used mostly in the 70's. The first is right-on the second is far out both of these I used to say a lot. :cool: https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/right-on
https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/far_out
The OP's original question was "Is "Scales" a Misnomer" which is a a wrong or inaccurate name or designation. We may embrace the past with passion and fail to see the reason for change but in today's world I do not believe "scales are a misnomer so may we agree to disagree my friend.
 
In his scholarly work Cutlery For The Table, A History of British Table & Pocket Cutlery, which exhaustively examines production methods and knife nomenclature, author Simon Moore uses the term 'Scales'.
 
In Australian & New Zealand Cutlers & Cutlery 1788-1988 by Keith M Spencer & Joan Renton-Spencer, the word used is ‘Scales’.
 
Mike Robuck's excellent Gun Trader's Guide to Collectible Knives has sections by various authors, but the various texts seem to mainly use 'scales' and 'handles'. A diagram indicates 'Handle'. However, in the glossary, both 'covers' and 'scales' are included.
 
Levine does use handle scales or handle covers in the glossary.

I will give in. ;)

As you and I both know (but might not be clear to others) this discussion is only academic.

I do see how there could be some confusion by using the word "scales" for both liners and cover material. It would seem that handle might be the least confusing.
 
r redden said:
Really good post Jake and yes the urban dictionary has not replaced the oxford dictionary but some of our urban jargon has now been included. These two links are to the Online Oxford dictionary both are for phrases used mostly in the 70's. The first is right-on the second is far out both of these I used to say a lot. :cool: https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/right-on
https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/far_out
The OP's original question was "Is "Scales" a Misnomer" which is a a wrong or inaccurate name or designation. We may embrace the past with passion and fail to see the reason for change but in today's world I do not believe "scales are a misnomer so may we agree to disagree my friend.
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Good points, Randy
 
An interesting discussion that covered the topic on a grand scale. I am glad a silver lining was found, although at time it was a bit much to handle. Nice work gents!
 
The Ken Hawley Experience by Derek Bateson, a book which examines old words from the Sheffield knife, steel, and tool trade uses the word 'scale'.

A Cut Above The Rest, The Heritage of Sheffield's Blade Manufacture by cutlery historians Joan Unwin and Ken Hawley, uses 'scale'.

Sheffield Industries: Cutlery, Silver, & Edge Tools, also by Joan Unwin and Ken Hawley, also uses 'scale'.

Art of the Switchblade, The World's Concourse Examples by Neal Punchard and Dan Fuller uses 'Handles'.

Stan Shaw, Master Cutler: The Story of a Sheffield Craftsman by Geoffrey Tweedale - 'Scales'.
 
A Sheffield Heritage: An Anthology of Photographs and Words of the Cutlery Craftsmen by C.A. Turner of the University of Sheffield is a fascinating little book, with loads of great information. It uses the word 'scales' throughout, and there's also a diagram, which uses the same.
 
Penknives and Other Folding Knives by Simon Moore - 'Scales'.

The Complete Encyclopedia of Knives by A.E. Hartink uses the words 'Handle' and 'Handle Plates'.

In his History of Sheffield, David Hey uses 'scales'.

In Pocket Knives: The Collector's Guide To Identifying, Buying and Enjoying Vintage Pocketknives, Bernard Levine uses 'Handle'/'Handles'.

 
Sorry, spent my entire evening going through books. That's it! I don't want to get anymore out! :eek: I would however like to consult some earlier (19th Century) reference sources, particularly where I can identify actual cutlers talking about their work. I think, historically, the word used by cutlers in relation to spring-knives (and also to scale-tang 'fixed-blade' knives) is scales. Much later, some US cutlers may have started using the word 'covers', which in some way is a more accurate description. The words 'covers' and 'scales' may have both been originally words that were just used by cutlers - as opposed to marketing men, cutlery writers, and enthusiasts like ourselves. GEC may like the word 'covers', and hey, I fell for it just like everyone else did! ;) :D However, to answer the OP's original question, in my opinion, the use of the words 'scales' is not a misnomer, it almost certainly has historical precedence over the word 'covers', and by quite a long way. I find both equally acceptable, as I do 'handle'. However, it is worth noting that, in certain contexts, if you use the word 'scales', you may be asked to explain if you are referring to the 'inner scales' or 'outer scales'. While 'covers' may not have historical precedence, or even much actual usage at all, from what I can find in my library, I think it more accurately describes what we are talking about - to those of us who know what it means anyway - Everytime I use the word in Sheffield, I get quizzical looks, and I am sure that Stan Shaw winces very slightly! :D :thumbsup:
 
Jack Black said:
Penknives and Other Folding Knives by Simon Moore - 'Scales'.

The Complete Encyclopedia of Knives by A.E. Hartink uses the words 'Handle' and 'Handle Plates'.

In his History of Sheffield, David Hey uses 'scales'.

In Pocket Knives: The Collector's Guide To Identifying, Buying and Enjoying Vintage Pocketknives, Bernard Levine uses 'Handle'/'Handles'.
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Thanks for giving references, Jack. It is good to have all of them in one thread for further reference.
 
supratentorial said:
One book that has often been referenced is the Cutlery Story published by the Associated cutlery industries of America in 1950 (list of companies in the second photo). AG Russell's encyclopedia uses this book as one of its main sources.

In the diagram, it uses "handle" but in the text it says "besides having outside covers, or handle, attached". The diagram uses the words "scale" or "lining" for the metal parts.

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Very interesting read here, interesting distinctions about pins and rivets not often seen. Thanks!
 
To Jack, Jake, and everyone who has contributed---thank you. I never imagined that my innocent little question would provoke such learned and detailed responses. This is a great forum. :thumbsup:

Andrew
 
AFAustin said:
To Jack, Jake, and everyone who has contributed---thank you. I never imagined that my innocent little question would provoke such learned and detailed responses. This is a great forum. :thumbsup:
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I don't think anyone in the rest of the world would be interested Andrew! :D :thumbsup:
 
Bartleby said:
Thanks for giving references, Jack. It is good to have all of them in one thread for further reference.
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Here's some more Bart, links to some of the PDFs can be found in the Lambsfoot thread :thumbsup:

In 1690, the Hearth Tax assessors of Sheffield cutler, George Harrison, listed his goods as, “ffore tortes [tortoiseshell knives], 6 olivante [ivory] spring knives, 3 dozen horn spring knives, 1 agott (agate) knives, 6 tortes knives and 17 dozen of horn scale, a stone and a half of horne scale and 39 1/2Ib of tortose.”


William White’s General Directory of Sheffield (1845) lists a large number of individuals and firms as ‘Bone scale cutter’s, ‘Scale maker’s, ‘Horn haft and scale presser’s, ‘Stag, buck, horn, and hard wood handle and scale cutter and dealers’, ‘Scale presser’s, ‘Scale and spring maker’s, ‘Scale, spring, and shield manufacturer’, ‘Scale and spring knife manufacturer’, ‘Bone haft and scale cutter’s, ‘Pearl handle and scale cutter’, ‘Scale and haft dealers’, etc.


The Sheffield Directory of 1825 also lists a very large number of scale makers, pressers, cutters, and manufacturers, as does the Sheffield Directory of 1828, the Yorkshire Directories of 1822 and 1823.


According to The Sheffield Directory of 1833, at that time, there were 1,000 men and boys working as table knife hafters, 160 haft and scale cutters, 140 scale pressers, 120 spring knife scale and spring forgers, and 1470 (men and boys) spring knife hafters.


The Sheffield Directories of 1852, 1856, 1859, 1862, 1879, and 1905 list even larger numbers of scale producers. Likewise in the Sheffield & Rotherham Directory of 1841.


In Robert Eadon Leader’s famous tome ‘Reminiscences of Old Sheffield, It’s Streets and It’s People’, published in 1875, the word ‘scale’ is used throughout. As it is in Leader’s 1901 publication, ‘Sheffield in the Eighteenth Century’.


Sally-Ann Taylor’s two volume doctoral thesis ‘Tradition and Change, The Sheffield Cutlery Trades 1870-1914’ should be a fascinating read to any cutlery historian. It uses the word ‘scales’ throughout.


Joan Unwin’s ‘The Hallamshire Cutlery Trades in the Late 17th Century’ uses ‘scales’ throughout.


In ‘Deceitful Wares – The Quality Control of Knives by the Searchers of the Company of Cutlers in Hallamshire’ by Joan Unwin uses ‘scales’.


‘The Finance of Manufacturing Industry in the Sheffield Area c.1850-c.1855’ by Lucy Newton uses ‘scales’.


The Hawley Tool Collection in conjunction with Sheffield’s Kelham Island Museum issue a detailed publication, available in PDF form, looking at pocket knife ‘scales’ and the handles of table cutlery.


Across the pond, The 1946 Camillus catalogue refers only to ‘Handles’ / ‘Handle’.


The 1951 Camco catalogue uses the term ‘Handle’.


The 1161 Imperial catalogue uses ‘Handle’/’Handles’


Lewis M Bement’s ‘The Cutlery Story’ uses ‘Handle’.


All the publications listed can be found online as downloadable PDFs.
 
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