Izula as a tactical fighter?

[Don Rearic]

I'm sorry for my part in impeding everyone’s discussion, any thing further Mr. Relic take it to my pm.

You don't have PMs and I already tried to E-mail you 30 minutes ago but you don't have an E-mail listed, either. So, Mr. Wizard, how can I, "Mr. Relic," PM you when neither one of us have them?

 

[crowdog]

You don't have PMs and I already tried to E-mail you 30 minutes ago but you don't have an E-mail listed, either. So, Mr. Wizard, how can I, "Mr. Relic," PM you when neither one of us have them?

Vistor message.... any where out side of this or any other thread.

 

[Don Rearic]

I have E-mail listed, you can use it if you want. At this point I don't know why you would. BFC rules, I am sure, apply to any type of visitor messages as well, it's not like we can take each other to task more vigorously on that medium.

It would just be nice to see that someone could respond to some serious topic with something besides a stupid picture to tell people how stupid they are...which of course, is stupid. That was my point.

 

[crowdog]

It would just be nice to see that someone could respond to some serious topic with something besides a stupid picture to tell people how stupid they are...which of course, is stupid. That was my point.

I understand your point, but that picture and what I type below it; was as I felt, adequate in nature to validate my opinion that such a question is rather leaping ahead of his base of knowledge. I wasn’t intending to troll or flame for the sake of reaction; it was my desire to express the naivety of that question, if one need ask the “tactical advantages” of a fixed blade, and one as simple in structure and form as the Izula, then it is most likely in their best interest to pursue formal training prior to buying a knife with the intent to use it to harm another.

 

[JTR357]

:thumbup:I agree with Don,that seeing the same old(and yes they are old & repetitive) responses,whenever this subject comes up.

Let's get back on topic,before this thread gets trashed.

 

[Don Rearic]

So, you are capable of an adult, intelligent post, you just have to get your cods whacked a couple of times to bring it out. Good.

 

[crowdog]

So, you are capable of an adult, intelligent post, you just have to get your cods whacked a couple of times to bring it out. Good.

:| seriously.... vistor..... section.

 

[Don Rearic]

Seriously, if you want to say something, spit it out or E-mail me. The hallmark of the troll is no real name and no E-mail. If you want to say something, say it or E-mail me. Seriously.

 

[viva la]

:| seriously.... vistor..... section.

+1

regarding needing a long blade to get at organs and such, I would say false. If I get into a knife fight I'm going for the quick slashes to hands and arms. I don't want to be close enough for stabs because guess what, you enter that zone and it is a completely different game.

Another thing that has not been brought up here is going against someone else with a knife. The last thing I will do is pull out my own knife. IMO the first concern is getting the knife out of the other persons hand, and I can do that empty handed much easier than having a knife in my dominant hand. Of course if they display that they have no real knowledge of knife fighting that changes things also.

My favorite knife to carry at the moment is one that others have refereed to as a "fad". It is my karambit. It is very accessible, and very concealable. The biggest draw for me is that you can basically use it like you don't even have a knife in your hand. And it is a small blade that you may not even see in the hand until it is too late. For the same reason I like the Izula. In a reverse grib the person you are going against may not even realize you are armed, and IMO that puts you at an advantage.

 

[Don Rearic]

From E-mail:

Winners drip, losers gush.
Whatever knife you have when you get in a fight is a fighting knife.
Whatever gun you have when you get in a gun fight is the best gun.
Guns are for show knives are for pros
7 yards, Tueller Drill, blah blah yadda yah...

How nice it would be to see a forum where mindless cliche' such as these were auto censored and couldn't even be posted.

If you watch the movie "Hamburger Hill" there is a scene where all the guys in the squad are sitting around talking and the entire conversation is made up almost entirely of cliches'.

"Boom, there it is!" "You know it!" "Don't mean nuthin, not a thing." "Amen brother!" "There it is!" "No bang bang sweaty da" "Don't mean nuthin, not a thing."

What makes this scene worthwhile and even funny, is that soldiers really do sit around and mouth such meaningless cliches. I know, I was one of them for a long time. Of course, to them, they feel each of these statements is deeply fraught with meaning and context but really they're mistaken. They're just mouthing meaningless noises that have somehow gained depth through repetition.

"Tactical." What is "Tactical?"

Well, "Tactical" is anything that is the result of tactics and tactics are basically nothing but ideas. Perhaps yours, perhaps someone else's but still just ideas. Plans. Somebody thought it up and now you're going to do it. No more, no less.

Militarily, tactics is synonymous with strategy, simply on a smaller unit or individual scale.

So what does "tactical knife" mean?

Well, if you really believe there is such a thing, it largely means you've been successfully programmed by marketing executives.

After all, once you have come to believe you must buy a "tactical knife" then it follows that you must also purchase a "survival knife" and perhaps even a "camp knife" and then when you step out into the world, you must of course, carry all three.

But wait, let's forget about knives for a moment, shall we? Instead, let us consider a different tool, the hammer.

There are many sorts of hammers out there and not all of them can be used for pounding nails.

A framing hammer does an excellent job of pounding nails and a side peen can be used for that purpose if absolutely pressed to it, but a rawhide mallet cannot serve the purpose of either the framing hammer or the side peen. Conversely, neither of those can do what a rawhide mallet does so well. Yet they are all "hammers."

Perhaps, what those of us not involved in the marketing business mean when we say "tactical knife" is a knife that may not be designed to one specific purpose but can be pressed in to use for many purposes, if not all.

I can use a USMC Ka-Bar to make a fuzz stick, cut rope, skive leather, or defend myself from the thug who just snuck into my campsite on the Appalachian Trail. For those who would scoff at the likelihood of this, I would say you are not keeping abreast of current events. These crimes are becoming more common every year. The predators have learned these campsites are usually filled with trendy new-age/pacifist hikers who will happily turn over their money and expensive gear at the first offer of violence


AND WHAT THE F**K AM I DOING?????

Yeah, he would be telling you something valuable, so why bother?

P.S. The truth in what he is saying can be found in THE NEW HOTNESS - "Bushcraft Knife." Marketing. Now, all survival knives, including the H.E.S.T., I might add, have been judged by the standard of a MARKETING TERM - "Bushcraft Knife."

Kill your idols.

 

[jfn]

I think that a knife being "tactical" means 3 things:

1. easilly concealed
2. quickly deployed
3. robust

The knife market seems to gravitate more around camoflage handles and funky blade shapes. But in the end, there are hundreds of knives that would serve just as well without being branded as a "tactical" knife.

 

[Spenceds]

I think that a knife being "tactical" means 3 things:

1. easilly concealed
2. quickly deployed
3. robust

The knife market seems to gravitate more around camoflage handles and funky blade shapes. But in the end, there are hundreds of knives that would serve just as well without being branded as a "tactical" knife.

See, any of those three could be discounted from tactical knives.

easily concealed- most soldiers carry their knives in the open, so are those not "tactical"?

quickly deployed- have you ever put a bayonet on a rifle, not the smoothiest or quickest thing to do

robust- a razor blade isn't very "robust"

 

[Smash05]

Around my parts, people who go out to fight with knives are using cheap butcher knives, machetes, or stolen steak knives. The prefered method of carry for the larger knives is duct tape to the chest or back, or in the trunk of the car. The "tactics" of this are simple - they are cheap, disposable, and the duct tape method keeps them easily available while concealed under voluminous clothing. Sounds pretty darned "tactical" to me. I HATE it when people use tactical as an adjective - I can't get out of the knife shop without being told how much someone LOVES tactical knives. The Izula can be made to work. Everything else is up to the user.

 

[viva la]

See, any of those three could be discounted from tactical knives.

easily concealed- most soldiers carry their knives in the open, so are those not "tactical"?

quickly deployed- have you ever put a bayonet on a rifle, not the smoothiest or quickest thing to do

robust- a razor blade isn't very "robust"

1) I am guessing we are talking about an average person here, not someone in the military. The average person is not going to be carrying a knife strapped to their jacket or vest.

2) Again, average joe, not GI joe

3) A tactical knife used only for tactical purposes only has to be good for one use. In this we agree, a razor is just as useful best the most robust knife.

 

[MrCoffee]

P.S., one of the great things about using your name is you have to be responsible for what you say even when you are wrong. It's really a shame that people were not encouraged early on to actually use their real name on forums.

Wah da ya mean? I AM using my REAL name..

Meanwhile back at the ranch... the question was, The Izula as a tactical fighter. The answers are based on people opinions, experience, and a good deal of arm chair padding.

The Izula, the HEST, the RC-3, a rock, a sharp stick, a Katana, .30-.30 all make excellent defensive weapons when compared to barehands. If only qualities as a "tactical fighter" if you wish to call it that. I tend to feel that the HEST and Izula both would make decent fighting knives, but then again, if all I had was a Mora or a SAK, they would be the best fighting knife....

Which ever tool you are using, as long as it helps even the odds in your favor, then it is the right tool. KaBar or Gerber, ESEE or Ontario.

 

[Spenceds]

1) I am guessing we are talking about an average person here, not someone in the military. The average person is not going to be carrying a knife strapped to their jacket or vest.

2) Again, average joe, not GI joe

3) A tactical knife used only for tactical purposes only has to be good for one use. In this we agree, a razor is just as useful best the most robust knife.

My only point was are these not examples of "tactical" knives? I realize they don't fit the average person, I just hate how the words "tactical", "survival". and "expert" are just thrown around these days. That and the OP never said what his use would be for it did he?

 

[Don Rearic]

Are you so in love with the word "tactical" that you cannot see it is has outlived any value it only marginally had to begin with?

Just like "knifefighting." If someone tries to take you out of your car, they reach in and throttle you or grab you by the scruff and you have a baby in the car seat - you would probably be justified in using lethal force but you have to be able to articulate why - so your baby didn't get ejected by a criminal down the road...etc.

Your knife might be the only one in that fight, is it still a "knife fight" and does that knife have to fit the definition of a "fighting knife?"

There is not ONE knife made by ESEE/RAT that won't serve you well in almost any type of situation where you would have to use a knife against another human being. Kill your idols, stop your worship of meaningless words and hype and B.S. - start thinking beyond "knifefighting" as in two guys squaring off with knives. Expand your horizons. When you do, a whole new world will open up to you and you will truly have "survival tools."

 

[Don Rearic]

Wah da ya mean? I AM using my REAL name..

Just to clarify, I was not speaking about everyone that doesn't use their real name, per se. Nor was I referring to everyone who doesn't list their E-mail. But when you combine the two and the goofiness that was LOL present, that is the hallmark of the forum troll.

I don't go to the other forums covering topics I don't know anything about and speak like I know what I am talking about. When I don't know something, I go someplace with my HAT IN MY HAND and I ask questions. I don't know everything. I don't speak about brain surgery, either.

What honks me off are people just basically spewing rubbish about something they know very little about. Then there has to be a LOL freakshow on the side while it is being discussed by people that are intelligent.

 

[RatDrall]

Yeah, he would be telling you something valuable, so why bother?

P.S. The truth in what he is saying can be found in THE NEW HOTNESS - "Bushcraft Knife." Marketing. Now, all survival knives, including the H.E.S.T., I might add, have been judged by the standard of a MARKETING TERM - "Bushcraft Knife."

They label things so that people looking for a purpose, such as fighting or bushcraft, buy the right tool for the job.

People need to know enough to make sure that the tool they are about to buy will work for them. What works for one won't work for another.

For example, I don't like Kabars, because they are too heavy for me, so even though it is the stereotypical "fighting knife" because Marines have used it for camp chores for many years, and happened to kill a few badguys because it was what they had. I wouldn't want to buy a Kabar for my "fighting knife" even though it works for everyone else, I would prefer something thinner, wider, lighter and faster.

I like a 32 oz framing hammer, but that would be way to heavy for my wife to use. So if we were out shopping for a hammer for her, she might want one that is 28 oz instead.

I suppose that a better answer for the OP would be that the Izula could work, but maybe not for you, so none of us can really help you. Go out and attend a seminar or three, take a few months of a knife based martial art, then decide if the Izula will work for your hand with your fighting style against your possible attackers.

Kill your idols.

I'm adding this to my list of cliches

 

[Moloko Plus]

Any knife can be a fighter. Anyone who thinks a knife has to be the perfect length and perfect thickness etc ad nauseum in order to be a fighter has never been in a knife fight and obviously doesn't know that a sharpened prybar is SHARPENED and can thus cut.

I think a thick dull knife would be perfect for combat as, having been cut with one, I know that it leaves a much nastier wound that bleeds faster than a scalpel-thin razor-sharp knife can leave. Knives of the latter type can easily cut but the wound can also easily self-seal as the tissue is nicely cut and not torn.

A small knife can also leave a deep wound as tissue compresses on impact. A one inch boxcutter can leave a two inch deep cut. Try it sometime with raw pork and you'll get a realistic idea of what a small knife would do to human tissue.

And if you're looking for a knife of a specific length so you can puncture vital organs you're going to end up in prison instead of just getting a misdemeanor for carrying a concealed dangerous weapon (I am citing my state's law regarding this... your state laws may vary).

All I can say is there is way too much theory around fighting knives, and those theories are total crap if you look at the number of people badly injured or killed in fights by average tools and makeshift weaponry. Theories are fun on forums like this but should never be used to make self-defense decisions as a really stupid idea can get you into a lot of trouble or possibly even killed.

Parting thoughts: Train with a knife you have on you and expect that whatever that knife is will both (a) possibly save your life and also (b) end up in an evidence bag. Purchase, train, and carry accordingly.