Jimislash has a new Competition Chopper

Wallace Edged Tools said:
He’s been asked several times by several members to show anything that would back up what he claims. If all these design changes and variations exist it would easy to show them. Again all talk, zero proof.
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Its been posted, just waiting on a Mod to approve it. I included images for you too!
 
Shaun Cazin said:
Yes, we do. Jimi is currently competing with the 4th prototype iteration. We will have at least two more prototypes and tooling modification to make before final production. As I said in my post above, we still have yet to incorporate the design requests from the Blade Sports team. Those modification will be on the next round of samples/prototypes.
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Ok. So assuming that 1st iteration is Mike's, do you have v2 and v3 to show us?
 
Shaun Cazin said:
I think the disconnect here is that you forget you were a GSM designer and all designs created while under GSM payroll are the IP of GSM.
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Well, in my opinion, everyone involved in a design or creation deserves their share of the credit. That is what happens, for example, in scientific publications. But big companies obviously think differently.
 
Shaun Cazin said:
Hello Everyone,

I hope everyone had a blessed Thanksgiving. For transparency’s sake and since people have been asking for a more detailed description of the changes, I asked one of the designers involved (yes one of the other spiderman) on this project to provide the follow details.

Also, please note this Chopper is still in development and will undergo a few more changes before final production. We are still in the process of incorporating all of the changes requested by the Blade Sports testing team and Jimi has requested further modification on the handle after testing during his past competition.

Please note, we have asked Jimi not to respond to this thread.

Blade changes: all these changes were made at the request of Jimi (Shown in Blue).
  1. The blade thickness was increased to increase overall weight
  2. Bevel height was adjusted to add more weight in front of the handle
  3. False edge was made shallower to add more weight in front of the handle
  4. The cutting edge angle was adjusted based on tests done by Jimi
  5. The shape of the spine in the top left corner was adjusted to add more weight in front of the handle while staying within BladeSports requirements.
Handle changes: all these changes were made at the request of Jimi (Shown in Green)
  1. The handles silhouette/outline was completely change. 3D printed prototypes were supplied to Jimi for his input and approval.
  2. The 3D profile of the Handle was completely changed. The handle was made thicker with more contouring to allow for a better grip and better prevent the blade from rolling in the hand.
  3. The front of the handle was lowered to cover the 90deg edges of the blade tang
  4. Handle material was changed to Kray-ex for better grip
  5. Handle texture was adjusted for better grip
  6. Rivet was removed from the middle of the handle to allow for a more even grip area
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(If someone can tell me how to imbed images into the thread itself, I would be very grateful. )--- Thank you Lee
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All right. This goes a long way toward explaining your claims. Thank you for supplying this, Shaun.

Going forward, I would suggest two things:

1. When a recognized knife maker/designer, such as Mike Wallace, has a role in a knife's design, capitalize on it. Even if he's no longer with the company, it's worth mentioning his input, particularly among knife aficionados.

2. This may be true in practice,

Shaun Cazin said:
I think the disconnect here is that you forget you were a GSM designer and all designs created while under GSM payroll are the IP of GSM. This particular design was created with the understanding that it would be the foundation of a chopper that would ultimately be finalized and designed by Jimi…weather or not this information was relayed to you is not my concern.
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but you're not going to win too many of us to your cause with this attitude. Mike Wallace was a designer of multiple outstanding and successful Cold Steel knives during his thirteen-year tenure. Many of us own and carry his knives. If this is the degree of respect and professionalism he's shown by GSM just because he no longer wears a Cold Steel shirt, it doesn't exactly paint your company in a good light. As I asked before, why would I expect any better treatment as a customer?

I appreciate the information you've supplied. It hasn't improved my opinion of JimiSlash, GSM, or this knife. But at least I've heard from both sides now.

Perhaps GSM can have a more positive influence within this subforum over time.

-Steve
 
Juan Lopez said:
Well, in my opinion, everyone involved in a design or creation deserves their share of the credit. That is what happens, for example, in scientific publications. But big companies obviously think differently.
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It depends on the circumstance, if you are a designer on contract versus a designer on payroll things are greatly different. Contract designers absolutely should get credit for their designs and would have that aspect built into their contract. On payroll designers don’t have designs, all IP belongs to the company. Unless the company wants to utilize the brand recognition of a certain designer of course.
 
Shaun Cazin said:
It depends on the circumstance, if you are a designer on contract versus a designer on payroll things are greatly different. Contract designers absolutely should get credit for their designs and would have that aspect built into their contract. On payroll designers don’t have designs, all IP belongs to the company. Unless the company wants to utilize the brand recognition of a certain designer of course.
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But the legal aspects are not what we are really talking about here. This is what I am afraid that you are not understanding.
 
Shaun Cazin said:
Lee sorry, we might be able to accommodate you depending on the model. What are you looking for ?
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I appreciate it Shaun, but I’m right handed so I’m good. 👍
I do know in the past year or so there’s lefties on the forum who have mentioned no clips included with their knife, I was just curious if they had an option.
 
And since we have your ear and have went a bit off topic, I’m gonna say it…please offer some leather sheaths for your fixed blades. If you dig around here you’ll see that many of us have been bitching about that secure-ex crap for a very long time. I’d be far more interested in buying your knives if I didn’t have to have a sheath made for it afterwards.
 
Shaun Cazin said:
Simple answer... it was decided most people just throw away the lefty clip and since material cost were spiraling out of control the additional clip was removed. This decision was made by the original Cold Steel team prior to the acquisition, however, we also agreed with their decision and did not add the lefty clip back in.
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Every CS knife I bought prior to the GSM acquisition had a lefty clip so to blame prior ownership is quite ingenuous.

Really I am glad you just clarified the situation as nobody else at GSM would.

I think it is pretty lame that you would do this especially on knives that are already drilled for it but hey we are only about 10 percent of the population so I can see that the bean counters would consider leftys irrelevant.

I wish you luck with your current business model.
 
We may not approve of GSM’s business model for Cold Steel, but Mr. Wallace, IMO, has no reason for his demands.

I work for a very large company and do many things for them including R&D. When we come out with a new product, my name does not go on it as the designer because I am on the company’s payroll. The company owns all the IP. I’m fine with this. As an employee, I cannot patent, trademark or lay claim to any of my ideas while employed by my company.

Would it be nice to have recognition? Sure, but really, who cares. I try to not have a “big head” or a sense of entitlement.

This whole thing is blown out of proportion, IMO, and isn’t winning either side any of my business.

In my opinion, there is enough difference between the two knives, but it really doesn’t matter.

BF sure loves drama. ;)

Happy Thanksgiving All!
 
Shaun Cazin said:
This is a false statement, one of the designers working on the Chopper was also the designer and creator of the Atlas lock and new Engage series. Link

It is extremely naive to think you were the capable designer on our team.
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Creating a locking mechanism doesn’t make you a knife maker. Also the Atlas “borrowed” heavily from the Demko Shark Lock, with just enough changes to avoid patent infringement. You may or may not know l was making all the wire cut parts and samples for the Atlas lock knives. So I believe I’m very competent to speak to this.
 
Sharp & Fiery said:
We may not approve of GSM’s business model for Cold Steel, but Mr. Wallace, IMO, has no reason for his demands.

I work for a very large company and do many things for them including R&D. When we come out with a new product, my name does not go on it as the designer because I am on the company’s payroll. The company owns all the IP. I’m fine with this. As an employee, I cannot patent, trademark or lay claim to any of my ideas while employed by my company.

Would it be nice to have recognition? Sure, but really, who cares. I try to not have a “big head” or a sense of entitlement.

This whole thing is blown out of proportion, IMO, and isn’t winning either side any of my business.

In my opinion, there is enough difference between the two knives, but it really doesn’t matter.

BF sure loves drama. ;)

Happy Thanksgiving
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What demands am I making?
 
Sharp & Fiery said:
I apologize if I am incorrect. I was under the understanding that you are asking for recognition of this particular chopper design?
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I’m not demanding recognition. I’m just stating that someone else is getting credit for work I did. It may be legally acceptable to do this but most find it distasteful. I worked for Cold Steel when Lynn was the owner, I was a paid designer, not doing contract work. Lynn gave me credit for every design I did while employed. For a company that claims to want to continue Lynn’s legacy I would assume GSM would do the same. I guess I know what happens when you assume.
Oh and no apologies necessary. You are invited to comment and question.
 
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