Jimislash has a new Competition Chopper

[PeteyTwoPointOne]

Jimislash the more I read about your participation in this "design process" the lower my opinion of you sinks...atm, my bs meter has you pegged @ "opportunistic weasel."

I'm open to hearing your side of the story, as are many others here.

But all we're getting is *jiminyslashcrickets* >>> we're waiting ......................................

 

[splinterprone]

This reminds me of a knife I designed less than a year ago. Lots of iterations, prototypes and design changes were made during the mondo testing process but I persevered.

What do you guys think?

 

[willc]

S Shaun Cazin Sorry to go off topic here but I was wondering why when I now buy a Cold Steel folder that is drilled and tapped for a left handed pocket clip, that it no longer has a left handed pocket clip included?

I have emailed about this issue repeatedly but have heard nothing but crickets.

 

[Wallace Edged Tools]

I see. So the two other people in this situation are probably the people who prepared the final production version, based of your prototype, with testing and maybe some small changes suggested by Jimi so he could technically claim a design role.

Those two other "designers" probably work in the factory where the knives are made, maybe in Taiwan? That would expalin why they wouldn't be on here.

The "Many iterations, prototypes and design changes" they made were probably the normal process they go through when getting a prototype ready for production.

I think GSM has over played thier hand in this, overstating their and other people's involvement. Those knives are not "vastly different". They should have just said "subtly different".

The “Three other designers” are USA based CAD guys employed directly by GSM in their main office with zero knife making abilities or a properly set up knife shop, at least when I was employed with them. I was their only prototype maker. Maybe that’s changed? If so, who’s making these iterations?
Everyone Shaun cites is the USA. Jimislash, all mentioned GSM “design team members”, Blade Sports personnel, and several other competitors.
The old Cold Steel R&D shop was where the majority of prototypes were built, some (prior to GSM buyout) in the Ventura California location. We never had factories doing any design work or prototype testing and revisions.

 

[Wallace Edged Tools]

I want to wish W Wallace Edged Tools and everyone here a happy Thanksgiving. We have a lot to be thankful for. Have a good day with your kin.

Thank you dogstar. I hope it was a good day for you and all BF members. Indeed we have much to be thankful for.

 

[rhino]

I really love my Buck 110.

 

[Planterz]

It is and always has been our goal to continue the Cold Steel legacy that Lynn created.

You're definitely keeping Lynn Thompson's Cold Steal legacy alive.

 

[The Whip]

You're definitely keeping Lynn Thompson's Cold Steal legacy alive.

You're being intellectually dishonest in your attempt to make your point. If you want to try to convince me that design elements of the Black Sable mimic those of the Tighe Stick, I'm willing to listen (though, in fact, most iterations of the early Tighe Stick didn't look like that one). But Lynn got Sal's permission to make the Black Talon (is the reverse true of Spyderco's Q Ball?). And the G.I. Tanto was meant to be a thumbing of the nose at Strider.

Besides, none of those knives is Lynn Thompson's legacy. Among others, this knife is truly his legacy.

Do we really need to delve into how many times and by how many manufacturers and custom makers that knife has been ripped off in the past forty years?

If anything, what I've consistently witnessed from Lynn Thompson is an overly zealous attempt to ascribe design credit. Many of the custom makers who designed for Cold Steel I'd never heard of until they appeared in the Cold Steel catalogs, including several who would become famous because of their Cold Steel knives.


-Steve

 

[Kiah]

I reckon this is like how Steve Austin "designed" the Broken Skull and the Working Man. I'm sure he had his input, but he can't manufacture a knife on his own. If I had to guess, Demko probably had a heavy hand in both, since he is the expert on the triad lock. Probably the same with the Foreman grill, Air Jordans, and countless other celebrity "designs."

This was kinda my thought. Can’t say I really understand how the YouTube fella garners the status, but it does come across like “influencer” branding more than anything.

I don’t know much about competition choppers. Probably overlooking things, but at a glance of just looking at pictures I’d probably be against the grain and think there are as many subtle differences between the knives as there are between them and say Osborne’s Benchmade 171.

 

[Shaun Cazin]

S Shaun Cazin Sorry to go off topic here but I was wondering why when I now buy a Cold Steel folder that is drilled and tapped for a left handed pocket clip, that it no longer has a left handed pocket clip included?

I have emailed about this issue repeatedly but have heard nothing but crickets.

Simple answer... it was decided most people just throw away the lefty clip and since material cost were spiraling out of control the additional clip was removed. This decision was made by the original Cold Steel team prior to the acquisition, however, we also agreed with their decision and did not add the lefty clip back in.

 

[Lee D]

we also agreed with their decision and did not add the lefty clip back in.

You are right, I’ve always thrown them away, but I’m curious… is a clip available for left handed knife buyers if they were to call you guys requesting one?

 

[Shaun Cazin]

Hello Everyone,

I hope everyone had a blessed Thanksgiving. For transparency’s sake and since people have been asking for a more detailed description of the changes, I asked one of the designers involved (yes one of the other spiderman) on this project to provide the follow details.

Also, please note this Chopper is still in development and will undergo a few more changes before final production. We are still in the process of incorporating all of the changes requested by the Blade Sports testing team and Jimi has requested further modification on the handle after testing during his past competition.

Please note, we have asked Jimi not to respond to this thread.

Blade changes: all these changes were made at the request of Jimi (Shown in Blue).

1. The blade thickness was increased to increase overall weight
2. Bevel height was adjusted to add more weight in front of the handle
3. False edge was made shallower to add more weight in front of the handle
4. The cutting edge angle was adjusted based on tests done by Jimi
5. The shape of the spine in the top left corner was adjusted to add more weight in front of the handle while staying within BladeSports requirements.

Handle changes: all these changes were made at the request of Jimi (Shown in Green)

1. The handles silhouette/outline was completely change. 3D printed prototypes were supplied to Jimi for his input and approval.
2. The 3D profile of the Handle was completely changed. The handle was made thicker with more contouring to allow for a better grip and better prevent the blade from rolling in the hand.
3. The front of the handle was lowered to cover the 90deg edges of the blade tang
4. Handle material was changed to Kray-ex for better grip
5. Handle texture was adjusted for better grip
6. Rivet was removed from the middle of the handle to allow for a more even grip area

(If someone can tell me how to imbed images into the thread itself, I would be very grateful. )--- Thank you Lee

 

[Lee D]

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Upload pic
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[Shaun Cazin]

The “Three other designers” are USA based CAD guys employed directly by GSM in their main office with zero knife making abilities or a properly set up knife shop, at least when I was employed with them. I was their only prototype maker. Maybe that’s changed? If so, who’s making these iterations?

This is a false statement, one of the designers working on the Chopper was also the designer and creator of the Atlas lock and new Engage series. Link

It is extremely naive to think you were the capable designer on our team.

 

[Wallace Edged Tools]

This is a false statement, one of the designers working on the Chopper was also the designer and creator of the Atlas lock and new Engage series. Link

It is extremely naive to think you were the capable designer on our team.

Can you provide proof or your design team’s involvement? I can show proof that it is solely mine. I have everything I need to prove it. Emails, my original concept sketches, screenshots, etc.

Also you failed to address many other issues that you’ve been questioned with.
If you have this proof why not just show it, prove me wrong, and shut me up?

I’m being naive? I have decades of experience in the knife industry. Can the same be said of your design team? I have several designs being produced as well as my custom knives. All being solely my designs. Again all talk. Show us your proof.

 

[Wallace Edged Tools]

Simple answer... it was decided most people just throw away the lefty clip and since material cost were spiraling out of control the additional clip was removed. This decision was made by the original Cold Steel team prior to the acquisition, however, we also agreed with their decision and did not add the lefty clip back in.

If cost savings is an issue then why spend money drilling and tapping holes for a clip that’s not included?

 

[Inspector Lestrade]

This is a false statement, one of the designers working on the Chopper was also the designer and creator of the Atlas lock and new Engage series. Link

It is extremely naive to think you were the capable designer on our team.

So, if you made many iterations, do you still have any of those knives?

If you went through a process of making prototypes, testing, redesigning, and then making more prototypes, then there should be several knives in existence somewhere, showing a gradual change from Mike's prototype, to Jimi's final knife.

Like a fossil record.

Do you still have any of those?

 

[Shaun Cazin]

Then there is you Shaun, who I’m guessing up until a day or two ago had nothing to do with this project. Yet you roll in, and are the mouthpiece for for Jimislash and the “three man design team”. You claim involvement from Blade Sports personnel and several other competitors. Also someone is making physical test blades for all the evolving iterations of Jimislash’s design. So you’re saying there are at least 8 people with direct knowledge of this and not one has come to Jimi’s defense?

Mike,

To answer your question quickly and concisely… I have been a part of this project since day one. I was the one who originally met Donovan (founder of Blade Sports) at the Blade Show in Atlanta. He was introduced to me by Jimi Slash at the time. Stickman and I spoke with Donovan about becoming a sponsor for the Blade Sports industry. Stickman and I thought it would be a good idea for us to be more involved in the community, so we tasked your boss with coming up with some chopper designs. As Jimi was already one of our brand ambassadors it made sense for us to develop a knife specifically for him and incorporate his design ideas and requirements.

As for the reason I’m here on these forums… its simple. I manage all of the cutlery divisions for our company and have been intimately involved in this project. I felt it necessary to set the record straight.

I've said this before… you are not wrong in the sense that we utilized a portion of your design. You are a great designer and provided a solid design foundation. I think the disconnect here is that you forget you were a GSM designer and all designs created while under GSM payroll are the IP of GSM. This particular design was created with the understanding that it would be the foundation of a chopper that would ultimately be finalized and designed by Jimi…weather or not this information was relayed to you is not my concern.

 

[Shaun Cazin]

So, if you made many iterations, do you still have any of those knives?

If you went through a process of making prototypes, testing, redesigning, and then making more prototypes, then there should be several knives in existence somewhere, showing a gradual change from Mike's prototype, to Jimi's final knife.

Like a fossil record.

Do you still have any of those?

Yes, we do. Jimi is currently competing with the 4th prototype iteration. We will have at least two more prototypes and tooling modification to make before final production. As I said in my post above, we still have yet to incorporate the design requests from the Blade Sports team. Those modification will be on the next round of samples/prototypes.

 

[Wallace Edged Tools]

So, if you made many iterations, do you still have any of those knives?

If you went through a process of making prototypes, testing, redesigning, and then making more prototypes, then there should be several knives in existence somewhere, showing a gradual change from Mike's prototype, to Jimi's final knife.

Like a fossil record.

Do you still have any of those?

He’s been asked several times by several members to show anything that would back up what he claims. If all these design changes and variations exist it would easy to show them. Again all talk, zero proof.