Junk Steel

I won't use anything at or below 440A. 8Cr is realistically my bottom line, but I do allow a well done 420HC.

I will also generally avoid S30V. I hate that steel. Loses the razor edge in no time, and is insufferable to grind. That is some janky steel. S35VN is a decent improvement, but still not that good.

Also, if you call Elmax bad, you have some kind of traumatic brain injury.
 
S30V and Elmax junk steels!!!! Maybe watching way to many youtube videos done by the wrong people!!!!!
 
I have, sharpen and use folders with 154CM, S30V, S35VN, M390, ZDP189, VG10, Super Blue, 440C, AUS8, 8CR13MOV, XHP, M4, H1.
Some are easier to sharpen, some more difficult. Edge retention varies. Some are really stainless, others are not. Each have their specific qualities and therefore uses.

Myself, I fail to see how anyone can lay a blanket descriptive like 'junk' to any of these steels if they come from a good manufacturer and are used as intended.

I avoid lower carbon content steels like 5CR, 3CR, 440A, 420. I'm not dissing them, just dont feel the need to buy them when there are so many great steels available.

To me, we are so lucky to have so many great steels to use today.
 
Strong-Dog said:
Yes. To be honest, S30V isn't good enough for me. Neither is S35VN, VG-10, 154cm, 14c28n, etc. I prefer exotic and/or very high performance steels, or low-carbide high-toughness carbon steels run hard.

Oh, and if this somehow means that I don't use my knives, LOL. I have the means to sharpen any steel, so why would I buy something like S30V when I could have CPM-M4 that will out perform it in every way except rust resistance (which I can control very easily)?
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Fair enough, Strong-Dog. So for someone like you, when CPM-M5 is announced, will all your of CPM-M4 knives suddenly no longer be good enough for you? Or will you ever get to the point where an alloy achieves enough of the characteristics you're looking for that you won't feel the need to try to find something better?
 
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bld522 said:
Fair enough, Strong-Dog. So for someone like you, when CPM-M5 is announced, will all your of CPM-M4 knives suddenly no longer be good enough for you? Or will you ever get to the point where an alloy achieves enough of the characteristics you're looking for that you won't feel the need to try to find something better?
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No way. CPM-M4 is my favorite steel. I have used and owned steels like S90V, K390, S110V, etc., but I always come back to M4.

Now that being said, yes there will be a point at which every knife steel that I own will become obsolete. I understand some of you guys really like your 8cr and 154cm, but to me those are crap steels. Again, assuming someone has the ability to sharpen them and doesn't use disposable blades, why would you want a worse performing steel?

I like having the latest and greatest steels, because guess what, they are the latest and greatest. Just like most people, when given a choice, would take this years new smartphone over a two year old phone. Sure, they will both call someone, but that isn't the point.

At the end of the day, I want steels that perform good for my uses. Which is why I keep coming back to low carbide high toughness carbon steels like 52100 or O1 run hard. I find they hold a fine edge for a long time, which I like. But whether you guys will admit it or not, the new breed of supersteels used in knives today are just plain better than some older steels. PD-1 is tougher than D2. M390 will hold an edge longer than 440C. S110V will resist rust better than 8cr. Why would I want the greatest steel from the 90's when I could have the greatest steel of today?
 
Wait. M4 is a new steel? That's news to me. Don't get me wrong, I love M4, its my favorite as well. But new? Nope.
2dr9or7.jpg

Link for the excerpt.
http://tinyurl.com/lzwuj28
 
Strong-Dog said:
No way. CPM-M4 is my favorite steel. I have used and owned steels like S90V, K390, S110V, etc., but I always come back to M4.

Now that being said, yes there will be a point at which every knife steel that I own will become obsolete. I understand some of you guys really like your 8cr and 154cm, but to me those are crap steels. Again, assuming someone has the ability to sharpen them and doesn't use disposable blades, why would you want a worse performing steel?
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I think it's completely fine that you have your favorite super steel, but I do think that you're seriously limiting yourself. I could be dead wrong, but I'm guessing that high carbon steels like 1095 have been around for a really long time and I still think that's an awesome steel. I don't think I have any 8cr blades, but I personally love 154CM. Why do I like steels that are lesser than the latest? I don't like spending hours honing my users and I like having a razor edge. I don't have an auto sharpener... everything is by hand.... With my EDC, sometimes I'm scraping crud on concrete, which will dull any steel pretty quick. 154CM sharpens up a heck of a lot faster than a lot of other super steels and I like that. When I get home, I don't want to spend an hour honing my blade. With lesser steels, I can spend 5-10 minutes bringing that razor edge back for the next day.
 
RBid said:
I like 8cr13mov as cheap steels go, and I see no need to go lower than that when the Tenacious family and some Kershaws in that steel are so inexpensive. My EDC for over a year was a Spyderco Persistence, and I still love that blade. I suppose I don't have an aversion to particular steels so much as I have no possible reason to go below 8cr13mov. I'm carrying CPM S30V now and loving it.
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I too am a big fan of the Kershaws with the 8cr13mov steel. Great experiences with them.
 
draggat said:
I think it's completely fine that you have your favorite super steel, but I do think that you're seriously limiting yourself. I could be dead wrong, but I'm guessing that high carbon steels like 1095 have been around for a really long time and I still think that's an awesome steel. I don't think I have any 8cr blades, but I personally love 154CM. Why do I like steels that are lesser than the latest? I don't like spending hours honing my users and I like having a razor edge. I don't have an auto sharpener... everything is by hand.... With my EDC, sometimes I'm scraping crud on concrete, which will dull any steel pretty quick. 154CM sharpens up a heck of a lot faster than a lot of other super steels and I like that. When I get home, I don't want to spend an hour honing my blade. With lesser steels, I can spend 5-10 minutes bringing that razor edge back for the next day.
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I'm limiting myself? I've tried pretty my every steel used in knives. In 5-10 minutes stropping or on the WE, I too can touch up any steel.
 
Strong-Dog said:
I have the means to sharpen any steel, so why would I buy something like S30V when I could have CPM-M4 that will out perform it in every way except rust resistance (which I can control very easily)?
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This statement tells me that you won't consider a lot of knives, which is why I say you're limiting yourself. Then again, I have no idea what knives interest you.... I haven't come across that many knives with M4, but I could be looking in the wrong places.
 
i prefer a mid range steel like 8Cr or Aus-8 to a "super steel" because for the amount of cutting that I do in a given day and the fact that what I cut will dull S30V as fast as it will 420HC, I am going to end up sharpening a knife no matter what, and quick touch ups while working is a better option to me than dulling a knife and needing to spend an hour getting its edge back.

I also don't just cut with a knife, so a tougher steel is preferential to a harder steel. I would rather have to sharpen out a deformed edge than reprofile a knife because I chipped the blade or broke off the tip.

I've used 8Cr for over 3 years, entirely in a salt water environment and have not experienced any more corrosion or rusting issues than in any other comparable stainless. In fact, I've taken the knife scuba diving while repairing moorings and cutting rope out of propellers and even after not being rinsed, it hasn't rusted any more than any other steel in its price range.

The only steel that is a deal breaker for me is 420J2 and possibly AUS-6. 440A and 440B have always given me good results because they do take a nice toothy coarse edge. If I had to pick one steel though, it would be regular old 1095. With even lax maintenance i like how sharp it gets, how well it holds its edge and how easy it is to resharpen. I used a Schrade Old Timer trapper side by side with an S30V Military to cut and splice polypropylene buoy lines and the plain old carbon steel surprisingly stayed much sharper much longer. I took that same Old Timer to Georges Bank for 14 days without any cleaning, oiling or even wiping down and didn't experience any serious rust or corrosion issues any more than I have with stainless knives.

I regularly use victorinox paring knives with whatever mystery steel their blades are to cut rope, sometimes hundreds of cuts per day. One of my favorite knives to use is a Victorinox Swiss Army Knife. I don't know what kind of steel the blade is made of but they get sharp and stay sharp. I mainly pick knives based more on their ergonomics than what kind of steel, and I am lazy and really don't enjoy sharpening knives, so if I can sharpen it faster, I prefer it. D2 is a great steel, but I dreaded having to resharpen it after a day of splicing. I'm back to 8Cr, some 440C or the unknown steel in an old Imperial Ireland lockback I've been using.
 
I'm willing to bet most folks here are in love with weird strings of numbers and letters, not steel. And wouldn't be able to tell if one was substituted for another in a Folgers-style challenge.

I'll use anything. Steel doesn't really matter much, because steel doesn't cut. Geometry cuts. Geometry wins every time regardless how exotic the steel is.
 
draggat said:
I think it's completely fine that you have your favorite super steel, but I do think that you're seriously limiting yourself. I could be dead wrong, but I'm guessing that high carbon steels like 1095 have been around for a really long time and I still think that's an awesome steel. I don't think I have any 8cr blades, but I personally love 154CM. Why do I like steels that are lesser than the latest? I don't like spending hours honing my users and I like having a razor edge. I don't have an auto sharpener... everything is by hand.... With my EDC, sometimes I'm scraping crud on concrete, which will dull any steel pretty quick. 154CM sharpens up a heck of a lot faster than a lot of other super steels and I like that. When I get home, I don't want to spend an hour honing my blade. With lesser steels, I can spend 5-10 minutes bringing that razor edge back for the next day.
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I guess sharpening methods available to the end user also determines what steels are suitable for you.

With a 1x42 Kalamazoo, steels like S125V, S110V, S90V, and similar only takes minutes to sharpen up. And by all accounts, aren't you limited in the same sense that such high carbide steels are pretty much off-limits due to your lack of premium sharpening equipment? Diamond sharpening plates have been out for a while, and there are even 32 grit waterstones for rapid metal removal.

I did a bit of scraping myself on hard plastic, steel, and aluminum with my S30V BM Griptilian. Fixed it in a minute with a 10 micron belt because the edge rolled instead of chipping.

I also find it helpful to keep more than one folder on hand with different steels for different cutting tasks. S30V is my beater/light-pryer, and my 940-1 in S90V is handy for cutting cardboard and plastic straps(thinner than zip ties). A lesser steel can do both, but making good use of different steels and their different properties ensures longer cutting with both without a constant need to sharpen. I might even say that most of what I do on my Kalamazoo can only be called "touching up", all things considered.
 
shecky said:
I'm willing to bet most folks here are in love with weird strings of numbers and letters, not steel. And wouldn't be able to tell if one was substituted for another in a Folgers-style challenge.

I'll use anything. Steel doesn't really matter much, because steel doesn't cut. Geometry cuts. Geometry wins every time regardless how exotic the steel is.
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Huh. Really? You must know something that a lot of us don't, then. The last time I picked up my paramilitaries, the CTS-204p one help an edge better than my S30V one.

I would absolutely be able to tell the difference in a blind study between "crap" steels and supersteels. Now, would I be able to tell the difference between CPM-M4 and S90V? Ok yes. But would I be able to tell the difference between M390 and CTS-204p? Probably not.

I think that it's not us guys that use and like supersteels that don't use our knives, but maybe it's the guys who think "crappy" steels are amazing and that so called "supersteels" just don't offer more performance. After all, why would you need the extra performance of S90V when 8cr opens letters just fine?

If you are serious about knives and maintaining them and possess the proper sharpening equipment, difference in sharpening is almost a non-factor (and sometimes easier as less of a burr is formed). So again, why would you want 8cr when other "supersteels" are literally better than it in every way?
 
I hate 420hc and 440A. I dislike AUS6, but I will still use it. It just seems to lose it's sharpness too fast. AUS8 is sooooo much better, why bother?

Just about ANY carbon steel is fine with me. I love love love tool steels. A2 is just about my favorite.
 
When it comes to cheap steel, I don't mind so much.
I buy cheap knives so as to not loose my high $ knives on the "Small Mouth" river.
I have lost some good ones before, and learned a lesson from it.

Cheap knives have their place, steel or not, the "cheapo's" are just that, and get pretty sharp too boot!
I think I will save my good custom knives for another day, on the river at least, and carry me some good China made knives for no more than I will use them............
Deer season is a different story!:D
 
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