Just ordered a Ganzo g710

I'm not a lawyer. You're not either. You DO appear to have some limited Jedi Googlefu powers. I'd like a straight answer from you rather than a wall of text.

How do KAI, Benchmade and Spyderco manufacture Auto Knives...and how do Blade HQ, KnifeCenter and Knifeworks sell Auto Knives...if your interpretation of the Auto Knives Law is correct?

Please, just answer that question. You've managed to present an argument that proves nothing against the reality we all see around us. If you're accusing 1SKS of breaking the law, your accusation has to be extended to all parties mentioned above. Grow a pair and indict the entire industry if you're correct.

Waiting...

How are they doing it? It's really simple: They are doing it by breaking the law.
All of the parties you mentioned CAN be included if they are breaking the law.
Breaking the law and getting away with it does NOT mean you aren't breaking the law.

Oh, and the whole reason "1SKS" came into the discussion was a question as to how they reconcile their abhorrence of illegal (even legal) counterfeits, but do not have a problem selling switchblades, which has been proven, in a court of law, with a precedence-setting decision, to be an illegal activity.

Since you mentioned Benchmade: http://www.benchmade.com/media/forms/ako_acknowledgment.pdf
 
Last edited:
All of the parties you mentioned CAN be included if they are breaking the law.
OK, so we've finally gotten you to admit that, in your legal opinion, KAI, Benchmade, Spyderco, BladeHQ, KnifeCenter, KnifeWorks and any other retailer who sells auto blades is breaking Federal law. Good, I'm glad we finally got that condemnation out of you. I thought you were just going after 1SKS. You'd best go start that thread I mentioned. I'm curious to see what it attracts.

Oh, and the whole reason "1SKS" came into the discussion was a question as to how they reconcile their abhorrence of illegal (even legal) counterfeits, but do not have a problem selling switchblades, which has been proven, in a court of law, with a precedence-setting decision, to be an illegal activity.
But...haven't we already determined that clone knives are an immoral activity, while likely entirely legal? How does creating a counter argument hinging on Federal law have anything to do with moral choices while purchasing knives?

See Rob, the way I see it, and the way I think most people reading your posts see it, you've created a passionate argument about how wet the paint on the floor is, while you stand in the only unpainted corner with a wet brush in hand. Meanwhile, the house is burning down. Try to look at it that way. You're saying nothing of any relevance to the Ganzo G710.

Your thread about an industry full of felons awaits, however.
 
Your thread about an industry full of felons awaits, however.

FWIW, this is precisely what I think should be avoided. Nothing good can come of it - nothing. Let it go...
 
FWIW, this is precisely what I think should be avoided. Nothing good can come of it - nothing. Let it go...

I agree completely. I guess I'm just trying to be a jerk and bait a fellow member. My apologies, I just wanted to return the thread to the OP topic.
 
OK, so we've finally gotten you to admit that, in your legal opinion, KAI, Benchmade, Spyderco, BladeHQ, KnifeCenter, KnifeWorks and any other retailer who sells auto blades is breaking Federal law. Good, I'm glad we finally got that condemnation out of you. I thought you were just going after 1SKS. You'd best go start that thread I mentioned. I'm curious to see what it attracts.


But...haven't we already determined that clone knives are an immoral activity, while likely entirely legal? How does creating a counter argument hinging on Federal law have anything to do with moral choices while purchasing knives?

See Rob, the way I see it, and the way I think most people reading your posts see it, you've created a passionate argument about how wet the paint on the floor is, while you stand in the only unpainted corner with a wet brush in hand. Meanwhile, the house is burning down. Try to look at it that way. You're saying nothing of any relevance to the Ganzo G710.

Your thread about an industry full of felons awaits, however.

And people accuse ME of making bad analogies. :rolleyes:
 
And people accuse ME of making bad analogies. :rolleyes:

Says the guy who's added nothing to the conversation. I don't want to see the trainwreck but start your own thread or discuss clones. Avoidance and eye-rolling aren't any help.
 
Reasons to support knock offs? NONE, zero, zilch.

in fact there are more reasons to not support knock offs...
THE ONLY reason to make knock offs, is for free advertising. steeling from another so that you dont have to advertise yourself. this is shady, it hurts the original knives and our community. if they were to make original designs there would be no more problems, besides obviously the issues that most low cost mass produced knives have... poor quality, almost zero quality control, poor heat treat, poor design of the build (not appearance), poor warranty (you send it in to replace and you cover shipping and you get a different knife with the same problem or a different problem and it takes a whole month or more, ASSUming you get someone on the other side to warranty it). often many times often the materials are not what they say they are in the clones (not specifically gonzo, but it can happen to them too, just like it happened to the HOOTENANNY for ckrt).


if ganzo changed to only design original designs, would you still buy them? the answer is likely NO. people buy them because they are copies in the look. this is not moral or ethical. you can buy many knives for around the same price and if you cant wait a week or a month to obtain a few extra dollars for an original design you have a problem and are supporting something that is not right.

the excuses for knock off's is literally dumb and make no sense what so ever. if its just a tool, why not get an original design around the same cost give or take? supporting theft for profit is not right.
 
Says the guy who's added nothing to the conversation. I don't want to see the trainwreck but start your own thread or discuss clones. Avoidance and eye-rolling aren't any help.

You are so out of your depth, and are making it ever so evident.
You have absolutely no clue and have offered nothing to this discussion, whilst I have offered a ton of info.
Take your own advice and go troll elsewhere while the adults converse.
 
You are so out of your depth, and are making it ever so evident.
You have absolutely no clue and have offered nothing to this discussion, whilst I have offered a ton of info.
Take your own advice and go troll elsewhere while the adults converse.

But you are not adding anything to this discussion. You are just attacking the owner of BF in regards to selling autos.
This is a discussion of clones & copies.
Create another thread and you can rail on all the dealers breaking the law. Pretty sure this is the fourth time you've been told the same thing.
Joe
 
You are so out of your depth, and are making it ever so evident.
You have absolutely no clue and have offered nothing to this discussion, whilst I have offered a ton of info.
Take your own advice and go troll elsewhere while the adults converse.

Oh, it's a "last word" thing. I understand what's going on now. Personal insults don't belong here.
 
Please stop acting like you have limited intelligence.

The RoadsideImprots lawsuit was thrown in as an analogy.
It was done to demonstrate how ludicrous it is that someone thinks a "random lawsuit" like US v. NELSON carries no meaning in regards to law and whether a law is relevant.

Why do simple analogies confuse people?

I'll simplify: US went after Nelson for violating the switchblade law. Nelson lost. Benchmade went after Roadside for violating patents and trademarks. Roadside lost.
To say US v. Nelson has no meaning but Benchamde v. Roadside HAS meaning would be one of the dumbest statement one could possibly make.
To say US v. Nelson is just some "random lawsuit" is an equally dub statement.

To say the sales of switchblades is illegal under Federal Law is an accurate statement.
To say Kevin Schlossberg's company sells switchblades is an accurate statement.
If A=B and B=C, then A=C. It's really NOT that difficult.
Stating the truth is neither slanderous nor libelous (which I'm sure you don't belive, so look it up in a law library).

I have no knowledge of the "whackjob" fromn Roadside and don't care to. The FACT is that he LOST the lawsuit becasue he was breaking the law (regardless of his "whack" status. The FACT is that Nelson lost the lawsuit because he too was breaking the law.
Do you see any similarities there?
You don't lose a lawsuit and get a punishment when you are not breaking the law.

If the Federal Switchblade Act were not a law, Nelson could not have LOST the lawsuit as there would BE no lawsuit, no trial, no decision, no convictions.
But, he LOST said lawsuit, and there were convictions, AND his appeal of those convictions was lost:
JOHN R. GIBSON, Circuit Judge.
Douglas John Nelsen appeals from his convictions of violating the Switchblade Knife Act, 15 U.S.C. § 1242
(1982), as well as related convictions for the fraudulent importation of prohibited goods, *1319 18 U.S.C. § 545
(1982). He argues that the Switchblade Knife Act, which forms either the direct basis or the foundation for all
the charges, is unconstitutional. We are not persuaded by these arguments, and we affirm the convictions.

You have been given much proof of all this, yet still deny it is accurate.
Well, now is the time to put up or shut up. After being given proof, you don't just get to say "you're wrong and your proofs are stupid".
If you insist you are correct, put together the proofs and facts that refute the existence of the Federal Act, the additions made to the Act in 2009, the lawsuit that was lost by Nelson, and all of the state laws that make switchblades illegal.

Without offering those proofs, your argument carries as much weight as, well, NOTHING.

RoadsideImports was sued by Benchmade, lost, rightfully so, and that is relevant to the discussion at hand.

The interwebs are filled with blog rants, youtube rants, forum rants, etc about Benchmade being the bully for suing him for selling counterfeit goods, breaking patents, etc. So in attempted retaliation, he tried reporting them to US Customs. His claim was that Benchmade was selling automatic knives made in China.

[youtube]VQyBgzLgKUk[/youtube]

Further reading.

The knife in question is the Benchmite (ironically, the knife Benchmade sued him for selling counterfeits of). Model 310 was indeed made in Taiwan (not China). But the AUTO Benchmite model 3100 was made entirely in the USA.

Benchmade still manufacturers automatic knives (and balisongs) despite being investigated by US Customs. How can that be? Because they are not breaking the law.

John Benson, however, did and still continues to sell knock-offs, counterfeits, and illegally imported automatics and balisongs. Wanna smear someone's name on a public forum? Waste your time on him.



Spyderco several years ago was epically bitchslaped by US Customs because they were making their Spyderfly balisong (and maybe the Szabofly too, I forget) with imported parts. I had one myself with a VG-10 blade, which is Japanese manufactured. Huge fine, and many many thousands of dollars lost in confiscated inventory and materials.

Spyderco continued to manufacture balisongs and later, automatic knives, with materials from the USA. Now, why and how could they do that, after losing hundreds of thousands of dollars if it were illegal to do so? Because it's not.

Benchmade, Microtech, and Spyderco aren't huge companies, not like Wal-Mart or Microsoft, but they're pretty big, certainly not mom-and-pop brick & mortar operations. Benchmade (previously Bali-Song Inc, and Pacific Cutlery) used to be in California, where state laws actually prohibited them from doing what they did, so they moved to Oregon where it was legal. Spyderco got the afore mentioned bitchslapping. Microtech has always operated where it was legal to. The point being that these are not companies that have been flying under the radar, slipping through the cracks, or whatever idiom you want to use. If they were breaking the law, they'd be investigated and had legal action taken against them by the federal government. It happened to Spyderco. And operating under the confines of the law, they still made automatics and balisongs.

You keep mentioning Nelson. He was importing them. That's illegal. That doesn't mean that autos (or balis) made within the USA are illegal, because they are not.

Read the Switchblade Act again. Nowhere does it say anything about them being illegal. It's the interstate commerce that's illegal (with some exceptions), a point which you seem completely blind to. And importation, which I think we can both agree on.
 
I'm not sure why I've been dragged into this except via a really lame attempt at a tu quoque justification to allow counterfiets and knockoffs. "But MOOOOOOOOOM he did something!" is childish.

Yes, my store sells automatic knives. We have a stated policy to ship them only to those named in our auto knife law form. I regularly cancel orders for knives going to prohibited areas and guys calling in saying "uhhh it's for my collection" and the like. We make every effort to comply with the appropriate laws. Past that, leave my name out of your bullshit argument that counterfeits and knockoffs should be welcomed.

There's a pretty famous thread I made about how I feel about people who counterfeit their military history, and it should be fairly obvious that a manufacturer that doesn't respect IP & designs isn't exactly credible when they make claims about anything else.
 
If someone addresses me directly (as Planterz did) am I "just trying to get the last word" if I reply to the address?
If so, then I will not reply and if further addressed, will just quote the post.
Fair 'nuff?
 
If someone addresses me directly (as Planterz did) am I "just trying to get the last word" if I reply to the address?
If so, then I will not reply and if further addressed, will just quote the post.
Fair 'nuff?

Rob, you just caught a free pass. Time to stop talking, man. Kevin is the OverGod SunKing of this particular corner of the Universe, you would do well to remember it. Good luck, brother!
 
Rob, you just caught a free pass. Time to stop talking, man. Kevin is the OverGod SunKing of this particular corner of the Universe, you would do well to remember it. Good luck, brother!

Kevin certainly IS the overlord of this business. I'm sure Kevin rules this place fairly and evenly and would not banish me or take other vindictive action against me for posting things that are truth and fact.
That's what a good overlord does.
If a moderator were to do otherwise, I'm confident they would be doing it without his approval.
 
Hi everyone I just ordered a ganzo g710. Its a great looking knife and got excellent reviews. Does anyone up here have one? Do they cut stuff well?

OP, if you're still around, I'd love to get your thoughts on the clone debate. You might even have your G710 by now (if you haven't cancelled the order). After 20 pages of back and forth the real question is...do you regret asking the question or are you glad you asked? You've seen the best of us, and the worst us, and a bunch that made no sense at all, but hopefully you've learned a few things you didn't know.

As maybe you've seen, trying to take the middle road on the clone wars doesn't usually work because either side will see you as the opposition. There's not really any middle ground in a moral battlefield. It's hard to be Switzerland in this clone war, lol.

Anyway, I hope you haven't been run off. As I said way back in post #10, this is a topic that lends to high emotions but at the end of the day we hope you make the right choice in a knife. If we can help, give a shout!
 
So this has been beaten to death and everyone probably wants to see this die. But I had down time and read all the posts. It only got mentioned once and then ignored that Ganzo's purpose is not to be sold in the US and that retailers are choosing to do so. That's not Ganzo's fault. They are supposed to be China and not come to the US. I would like to see more discussion and opinions on that aspect of things. Viability of producing this in a foreign market is a different beast when different incomes come into play. I'm guessing your average Chinese citizen cannot afford a Benchmade vs. a Ganzo. Supplying to your domestic market is a different stories. Loopholes are being created to ship them to American but I don't know that Ganzo should be blamed for that unless a direct link can be made that they are creating the loop hole. <--- but maybe this point has been addressed in other threads?
 
Back
Top