Just ordered a Ganzo g710

[kniferbro]

 

[JupiterPaladin]

Why does it sound silly? What, exactly, is silly about it? Any length of time picked is, indeed, going to be somewhat arbitrary, but that doesn't make holding the view that people deserve credit and reward for their ideas and innovations, but that those innovations shouldn't be kept from broader production forever inconsistent or silly.

What is silly is regardless of where that line is, there is a liberal one day you're evil for theft and a hero for sharing the next.
I am in engineering in an industry where whatever we produce, the Chinese copy within a month. They cause us to not target that price point business. Let's face it, the customers either are willing to pay for the real thing, or they aren't. We aren't stressing over bottom of the barrel business. It's not that different from the knife industry. The customer focused on bottom line is either your target market, or they aren't. We don't even bring up that garbage as it consumes a market we aren't invested in.

 

[Hackenslash]

What is silly is regardless of where that line is, there is a liberal one day you're evil for theft and a hero for sharing the next.
I am in engineering in an industry where whatever we produce, the Chinese copy within a month. They cause us to not target that price point business. Let's face it, the customers either are willing to pay for the real thing, or they aren't. We aren't stressing over bottom of the barrel business. It's not that different from the knife industry. The customer focused on bottom line is either your target market, or they aren't. We don't even bring up that garbage as it consumes a market we aren't invested in.

This makes a lot of sense. I think what "sets off" most of us knife knuts over the clone/counterfeit issue is when a guest comes to an enthusiast forum looking for guidance, and fellow "enthusiasts" hold up Ganzo as a viable option rather than supporting brands and models that are productive contributors to this industry. I think we get more upset at the support clones get from "enthusiasts" in the name of saving a buck, rather than the clones themselves.

That's strictly speaking from my own perspective.

 

[marcinek]

And my real experience in handling knockoffs is not subject to opinion. It is what it is. The people who keep buying $20 knives are not the ones who would drop $100+ anyway. People I have met that say they collect knives are either high end collectors or they just have a bucket of flea market knives. I don't see anything in between.

And some people will just steal knives from other people. Nothing you can do about it...it is what it is, right? They are never going to pay for one.

 

[JupiterPaladin]

If a China manufacturer steals a design, there is literally nothing you can do about it. They wouldn't have an economy otherwise.
Stealing physical goods is a thing you have to do locally, so it's the same reason you can defend a patent in the USA.

 

[stabman]

If a China manufacturer steals a design, there is literally nothing you can do about it.

You can not buy it.
You can suggest that other people not buy it.
Those are the things you can literally do.


They sell us cheap crap because we (as a bunch of countries) buy the crap--and the quality products--that they produce.
They wouldn't be selling it to us if we didn't buy it.

So vote with your dollars...and complain on the internet (that's what the internet is for anyway ).

 

[Wilsonhome]

sorry i missed it. it was kinda silly cut and paraphrase that outside of the way it was asked. so be it. you are a professional pot stirrer. well done.

The summary of the conversation is referring to was that the patent had not expired and likely would not until at least next summer.

 

[JupiterPaladin]

Starman - you are correct. I meant legally but did not word it properly. What you said is what I was getting at. The people who dislike Ganzo should also be avoiding copies made by American companies as well. It shouldn't matter where they're from if they steal the design.

 

[stabman]

The people who dislike Ganzo should also be avoiding copies made by American companies as well. It shouldn't matter where they're from if they steal the design.

Hell yes!

Inevitably, some knives will end up looking somewhat similar to other knives, but totally ripping off designs is not cool.

Now I'm sure that all of us have at some point bought a knife that we later found out was likely copied from another person's design.
I wouldn't tell anyone to throw it out, but I think it would be decent to not promote that knife to others.

 

[jbmonkey]

How?!?! It was beaten to death in multiple recent threads including, I believe, this one!

cause i don't have time to read lots of threads or 18 pages worth etc, and sometimes i miss stuff. so be it.....

 

[craytab]

Hell yes!

Inevitably, some knives will end up looking somewhat similar to other knives, but totally ripping off designs is not cool.

Now I'm sure that all of us have at some point bought a knife that we later found out was likely copied from another person's design.
I wouldn't tell anyone to throw it out, but I think it would be decent to not promote that knife to others.

Absolutely. The last line is especially important. If you want to promote counterfeits, this is not the place

 

[jbmonkey]

The summary of the conversation is referring to was that the patent had not expired and likely would not until at least next summer.

good info thank you Sir. appreciated.

 

[Insipid Moniker]

What is silly is regardless of where that line is, there is a liberal one day you're evil for theft and a hero for sharing the next.
I am in engineering in an industry where whatever we produce, the Chinese copy within a month. They cause us to not target that price point business. Let's face it, the customers either are willing to pay for the real thing, or they aren't. We aren't stressing over bottom of the barrel business. It's not that different from the knife industry. The customer focused on bottom line is either your target market, or they aren't. We don't even bring up that garbage as it consumes a market we aren't invested in.

Frankly, I don't know if anyone, including myself, thinks an individual or company is being at all heroic when they start using patented technology after the patent expires, nor do I think the patent office and patent law are at all perfect, morally, ethically or in any other way. Ideally, we would let things evolve naturally and let designs and ideas pass into public domain by feel rather than through legislation, but that's not a realistic expectation, so there has to be an arbitrary amount of time chosen.

As for the other part of your statement, I honestly don't know enough about the electronics industry to offer an informed opinion about it, but in the knife industry reputable companies, both domestic and foreign, absolutely compete for that price range of knives because it is such a large market segment. People buying a Ganzo knockoff may not be in the market for a Para 2, but they sure as hell may shell out an extra $2-5 for the aforementioned Byrd Cara Cara 2, or a Kershaw Lifter, or Kabar Dozier Hunter just to name a few.

 

[Deer]

Thinking about buying a real Benchmade and swapping a Ganzo blade in. Thoughts?

Taking bets on how long it will be before another "ganzo thread" appears from a "new user"

 

[craytab]

Frankly, I don't know if anyone, including myself, thinks an individual or company is being at all heroic when they start using patented technology after the patent expires, nor do I think the patent office and patent law are at all perfect, morally, ethically or in any other way. Ideally, we would let things evolve naturally and let designs and ideas pass into public domain by feel rather than through legislation, but that's not a realistic expectation, so there has to be an arbitrary amount of time chosen.

As for the other part of your statement, I honestly don't know enough about the electronics industry to offer an informed opinion about it, but in the knife industry reputable companies, both domestic and foreign, absolutely compete for that price range of knives because it is such a large market segment. People buying a Ganzo knockoff may not be in the market for a Para 2, but they sure as hell may shell out an extra $2-5 for the aforementioned Byrd Cara Cara 2, or a Kershaw Lifter, or Kabar Dozier Hunter just to name a few.

Yes. If you are buying a ganzo using your computer, internet, or what have you, I am confident you can afford the extra dollars to get the $25 Utilitac II. If you can't afford that then the knife is the least of your worries......

 

[JupiterPaladin]

IM - Just so I'm communicating effectively I fully agree with your entire last post. The knives you mentioned are the same I would suggest (and have irl suggested) to people looking for a budget blade. I actually have a lot of respect for Sal Blessed. Knowing people would look for budget alternatives, he had them made still under his own license to make a profit on both fronts. Byrd knives are a hell of a budget option, probably my favorite. I'd buy a few if I weren't trying to save for a real Endura

 

[Planterz]

Now THAT right there is some funny stuff!!
"some random case about switchblades and the guy was found guilty (some random case of the US Gov't vs. some random guy selling switchblades).

I suppose if I found "some random case" about someone being sued for patent infringement and losing, you'd say I'm "assuming" patent infringement is illegal.
Perhaps RoadsideImports LLC vs. Benhmade Knife Co. is random enough for you? Civil Case No. CV 08-00967-HA
Despite Benchmade's win, I guess it's just assumption that patent infringement is illegal. You've just invalidated the whole argument that Ganzo infringes on a patent by using the "Axis lock" in a knife they produce and selling it in the US.

Even though a lawsuit and subsequent decision confirms the illegality of it (a. Mentor’s U.S. Patent Nos. 6,550,832 and 6,675,484 are valid and infringed by Defendants; b. Mentor’s U.S. Patent No. 5,822,866 is valid and infringed by Defendants; c. Defendants are ENJOINED from further infringement of U.S. Patent Nos. 6,550,832, 6,675,484 and 5,822,866; d. Defendants have infringed Benchmade’s trademarks BENCHMADE® and BENCHMITE® under 15 U.S.C. § 1114 and under the common law you claim a "random" lawsuit decision has no bearing on the legality.
Good argument!

You are quite the comedian!

You picked the most incredibly wrong (and random) lawsuit to site to attempt an argument to make your point. Firstly, you and I aren't discussing patent infringement, we're discussing your wrongful, slanderous, and libel accusation of 1SKS and its owner (and bladeforums owner) Kevin Schlossberg. You said they were breaking the law, and that switchblades are illegal. They aren't. Secondly, RoadsideImports? Are you effing kidding me? Do you have any knowledge of the history of that frigging whackjob? Either with Benchmade or right here at bladeforums? Or the particulars of the case you sited? Obviously not, or you wouldn't have sited it to make your argument, whateverthehell it is, because it's the complete fricking opposite of what you're attempting and failing to prove.

 

[robgmn]

You picked the most incredibly wrong (and random) lawsuit to site to attempt an argument to make your point. Firstly, you and I aren't discussing patent infringement, we're discussing your wrongful, slanderous, and libel accusation of 1SKS and its owner (and bladeforums owner) Kevin Schlossberg. You said they were breaking the law, and that switchblades are illegal. They aren't. Secondly, RoadsideImports? Are you effing kidding me? Do you have any knowledge of the history of that frigging whackjob? Either with Benchmade or right here at bladeforums? Or the particulars of the case you sited? Obviously not, or you wouldn't have sited it to make your argument, whateverthehell it is, because it's the complete fricking opposite of what you're attempting and failing to prove.

Please stop acting like you have limited intelligence.

The RoadsideImprots lawsuit was thrown in as an analogy.
It was done to demonstrate how ludicrous it is that someone thinks a "random lawsuit" like US v. NELSON carries no meaning in regards to law and whether a law is relevant.

Why do simple analogies confuse people?

I'll simplify: US went after Nelson for violating the switchblade law. Nelson lost. Benchmade went after Roadside for violating patents and trademarks. Roadside lost.
To say US v. Nelson has no meaning but Benchamde v. Roadside HAS meaning would be one of the dumbest statement one could possibly make.
To say US v. Nelson is just some "random lawsuit" is an equally dub statement.

To say the sales of switchblades is illegal under Federal Law is an accurate statement.
To say Kevin Schlossberg's company sells switchblades is an accurate statement.
If A=B and B=C, then A=C. It's really NOT that difficult.
Stating the truth is neither slanderous nor libelous (which I'm sure you don't belive, so look it up in a law library).

I have no knowledge of the "whackjob" fromn Roadside and don't care to. The FACT is that he LOST the lawsuit becasue he was breaking the law (regardless of his "whack" status. The FACT is that Nelson lost the lawsuit because he too was breaking the law.
Do you see any similarities there?
You don't lose a lawsuit and get a punishment when you are not breaking the law.

If the Federal Switchblade Act were not a law, Nelson could not have LOST the lawsuit as there would BE no lawsuit, no trial, no decision, no convictions.
But, he LOST said lawsuit, and there were convictions, AND his appeal of those convictions was lost:
JOHN R. GIBSON, Circuit Judge.
Douglas John Nelsen appeals from his convictions of violating the Switchblade Knife Act, 15 U.S.C. § 1242
(1982), as well as related convictions for the fraudulent importation of prohibited goods, *1319 18 U.S.C. § 545
(1982). He argues that the Switchblade Knife Act, which forms either the direct basis or the foundation for all
the charges, is unconstitutional. We are not persuaded by these arguments, and we affirm the convictions.

You have been given much proof of all this, yet still deny it is accurate.
Well, now is the time to put up or shut up. After being given proof, you don't just get to say "you're wrong and your proofs are stupid".
If you insist you are correct, put together the proofs and facts that refute the existence of the Federal Act, the additions made to the Act in 2009, the lawsuit that was lost by Nelson, and all of the state laws that make switchblades illegal.

Without offering those proofs, your argument carries as much weight as, well, NOTHING.

 

[Hackenslash]

I'm not a lawyer. You're not either. You DO appear to have some limited Jedi Googlefu powers. I'd like a straight answer from you rather than a wall of text.

How do KAI, Benchmade and Spyderco manufacture Auto Knives...and how do Blade HQ, KnifeCenter and Knifeworks sell Auto Knives...if your interpretation of the Auto Knives Law is correct?

Please, just answer that question. You've managed to present an argument that proves nothing against the reality we all see around us. If you're accusing 1SKS of breaking the law, your accusation has to be extended to all parties mentioned above. Grow a pair and indict the entire industry if you're correct.

Waiting...

 

[Hackenslash]

...and start a new thread. This has NOTHING to do with copies, clones and counterfeits. Here's your starter headline...ENTIRE KNIFE INDUSTRY IN VIOLATION OF FEDERAL LAW!!!

Go.