just received poor example of custom 110

thanks for understanding white crown.

buck has responded to my email in a timely fashion and is sending a return label. so far so good.

I'm glad to hear this. I would be willing to invest a little more patience in exchange for return shipping. Keep us posted.
 
rxavage, Herbert, & All,

Sorry to hear of your knife issues. This is a knife discussion forum and I hope we can all handle good news as well as the bad. I know that this is the Buck forum so it's mostly the Buck fan boys here chopping it up. With that said just be ready for some ruffled feathers when reporting bad news (I wish that wasn't the case). Keep in touch with the factory and drop Jeff Hubbard a message via email about your issues or call and talk directly with him via the phone.

I wish these manufacturing defects were a thing of the past, the knife Herbert posted images of are almost the same poor grinding as the 119 I sent back after looking at it for one year. See the thread linked below, I felt the wrath of some fan boys dismissing my point altogether. I sent the 119 back and asked them to fix the edge, it was returned a few weeks later and the edge was just as bad and off center. However, almost 1/8" of the blade was gone, talk about pissed and disappointed one spot on the belly was not even sharp. I sent it back a second time and Jeff Hubbard made it right with a replacement.


http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...evel-grinds-*from-the-factory*?highlight=edge

Hope all works out for you guys.

JB
 
thank you, Makael for your understanding. Just this morning I got a parcel, several weeks earlier as expected
Buck sent me a "new" 501. It is a lot better than the old one, but not perfect at all. What do they always do with
the polishing wheel? No handwork anymore? Press the knife at the wheel as long as you can see any grooves
on the bolsters? What happens is: the pin ereases as a bump out of the surface. How do they do it with the
production knives? These knives does not have these bumps. I think they don't have the time to polish as
long as they do it with the custom knives. I don't like these bumpy wave desing.

Now I send it to the guy who has not the guts to order the knife by himself. The favor to him costs me a lot of
nerves and the shipping to America and now from me to him. That was the last time I did this favor to anybody
else. Basta.

Haebbie

The reason you see the pivot pin "bump" is, from what I can see in the photos, the fact that they likely use a stainless pin for extra strength. Nickel silver (and brass) is far softer than stainless, so it polishes away much quicker. Also, because the stainless is harder, you have to polish it more to eliminate the fine grind lines from glazing the bolsters. There's virtually no way to avoid it with that combination on a fully polished bolster. The only way to keep it even is to satin finish the bolsters and not full polish them. If the pin is the same composition as the bolsters then the only thing I can think of is they didn't sand it down enough, which seems very unlikely.
Perfectly symetrical sharpening grinds from a factory are hard to come by. You can't sit there all day trying to get every blade perfect on a belt, it'd take far too long and ruin too many knives by removing way too much steel.
I honestly doubt that just because it's referred to as a custom shop that you have one guy working on that knife and its related parts from start to finish. Buck would be out of business in six months. I think "customized" would be more appropriate. Knife shops are divided in to departments. You have a set of folks dressing and gauging the parts, someone else grinding the blades, another group matching covers on to the scales, which in this case special "custom" covers would be installed and dressed, yet another group assembling all these parts into a knife, someone else cutlering the knife, and someone else grinding the backs and bolsters into a finnished knife, and yet another group doing the buffing. I doubt they'd use different folks for the custom knives since these guys and gals are already specialized in their fields. I think most likely some extra steps may be added to make them special, such as exotic covers, different steels, extra polishing, etc., but they're not getting the kind of money that would be required to to produce a fully custom knife.

Eric
 
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Buck does not have a Custom Knife shop. It closed in 1993. 25 years ago....They only put custom scales on a small handful of their production knives. If you want a real Buck custom you must look for something made over 25 years ago..... or get an employee service knife. Hardly any others made in the last 25 years even come close in comparison when it comes to perfection(fit finish etc...

Exactly.
 
The reason you see the pivot pin "bump" is, from what I can see in the photos, the fact that they likely use a stainless pin for extra strength ...

Thank you, Eric for your kind words and the detailed explanation. But I am not with you. It is the easiest way to polish the bolsters with the wheel, and, may be the fastest one. If you like to provide the "bumps" you have to take grinding paper and a small piece of hardwood. You start with fine sand papaer in steps to polishing paper and you'll get a perfect surface, even with the different materials. At least a short use, and I mean short, of the polishing wheel and you'll have a perfect surface. I own another 501 with the same combination and it is made pefectly. No bumps anywhere.

Same thing with the symmetric grinding of the cutting edge. It needs a long time to learn how to make it by hand and at least with one draw each side. I am not able to do it, but a professional grinder is.

Yes, I am with you, these knives are no custom knives. They are customized as Buck describes at the online shop. But the more I expect the same quality of a good factory knife from the "custom shoppe". There's no reason for increasing price for the "custom" knife and decreasing quality.

Next week I'll meet two knife guys. I am sure they'll have one or two custom knives in the pocket - with no bumps on the bolsters and perfect symmetric blades. And the maker is cooking with water too. And the knives are not (may be a few) more expensive as the Buck custom knives. I think there is something going wrong at the Buck factory.

Haebbie
 
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"Yes, I am with you, these knives are no custom knives. They are customized as Buck describes at the online shop. But the more I expect the same quality of a good factory knife from the "custom shoppe". There's no reason for increasing price for the "custom" knife and decreasing quality."

In a nutshell they are customized . Customizied or Custom Shop are the same just semantics, high quality control is expected and should be easy to obtain.
 
https://www.buckknives.com/custom-knife-shop/

I also have a Jim Cabelas (model 919) custom skinner that is completely custom and not a reiteration of any other Buck knife that I purchased 2 years ago. It also has the word "CUSTOM" stamped into the tang...

The "Custom" 110 I bought last year also has more than custom scales. S30V blade, Nickel silver bolsters, the pivot pin is hidden. They also have options for serrations, no rivets, drop point blade shape, black oxide coatings, mirror polished blade... it's pretty custom by definition.

Also, buck has also moved to an entirely different factory in a different state since 1993...

Yes, Your 919 has Custom stamped on the blade just like the other 250, 500 or 1000 they did in one of the few limited runs of the 919, but so do most of the limited edition Buck knives that came out in the past 25 years. which they made, in most cases a minimum of 100, but usually more like 500 - 1000 of each knife.

I'm not saying they didn't do more than one of a kinds before 25 years ago, but a lot of the blade etched runs in the late 80's and early 90's(that are also marked custom) just have a custom blade, and maybe a slight upgrade in handle material....

The point I'm trying to make is custom knife makers used to put their initials on Custom knives because they were proud of what they produced and in this case no one would put their initials on Haebbie's 501.(I know all the Buck boys are saying to themselves no one ever had or will initial a 501, and not all Custom knives from the 80's and early 90's have makers initials) but the difference and why I say there is no longer a Custom shop is because they do not have a group of people that show up everyday to make Custom knives, Custom kinife shop orders today get made by Buck employees who also work on their production knives. The standard is high, but QC is clearly not being met in todays Post Falls factory.

I see they put Custom knife shop on their website....but all they are offering you is a few additional options to a very small group of their knife line up. I'm glad there are people supporting Bucks current "Custom knife shop" but for the prices I see they have absolutely nothing to offer me....

I'm sure I'm leaving a lot out, but it is rare that I post anymore than pictures and a friendly "nice looking knives" here and there. My opinion shouldn't matter to anyone here, I know what I like and again, new Buck "Customs" rarely fit into what I like. With that said I pretty much only collect and use Buck knives, so they must do something right......
 
Very well said and true. Buck back in the day had very skilled craftsmen as the the older knives show . I always enjoy seeing the many examples you show here 👍 Oh yea, I also like seeing the Trophy Fish you show too 😎
 
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The reason you see the pivot pin "bump" is, from what I can see in the photos, the fact that they likely use a stainless pin for extra strength. Nickel silver (and brass) is far softer than stainless, so it polishes away much quicker. Also, because the stainless is harder, you have to polish it more to eliminate the fine grind lines from glazing the bolsters. There's virtually no way to avoid it with that combination on a fully polished bolster. The only way to keep it even is to satin finish the bolsters and not full polish them. If the pin is the same composition as the bolsters then the only thing I can think of is they didn't sand it down enough, which seems very unlikely.
...

The "bump" from the pivot pin may be due to it being steel, but usually steel pins stand out in a nickel silver bolster because nickle silver and steel have slightly different colors. That's the tell for "German" vintage knives since the Germans liked steel pins but English liked nickel silver. I believe I read somewhere that Buck matches the pivot pin material to the bolster to give the hidden pin look. So brass bolster knife=brass pin, etc. Any Buck expert know?
 
Yes, Brownshoe, nickelsilver and steel have different colors. But that's no reason for bumps.

f9a16fa8747f80219552ff1fe295074a.jpg


Perfect rocker
9a675c4219b4b5c07443179ffc652e12.jpg


No grooves from polishing
7598ff3cf599255a40eb90781e2c3d0d.jpg


It is unbelievable but the knife is from the same custom shop

Haebbie

Excuse the bad mobile phone pictures please.
 
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Very well said and true. Buck back in the day had very skilled craftsmen as the the older knives show . I always enjoy seeing the many examples you show here 👍 Oh yea, I also like seeing the Trophy Fish you show too 😎

Thanks for your compliments on my Knives and my Fish!!! I enjoy sharing pictures of both!!!
 
Same thing with the symmetric grinding of the cutting edge. It needs a long time to learn how to make it by hand and at least with one draw each side. I am not able to do it, but a professional grinder is.

Haebbie,

"Professional grinder" or "professional cutlerer" is practically unheard of here in the US. Yes, we have a vibrant customer maker community but many get into knife making first as a second job or hobby. One place this really stands out to me in the knife world is in looking at European knife makers, particularly the number of small traditional French knife companies. I also suspect that the average length of employment in European knife companies by employees is much higher than that of (the few remaining) US-based manufacturers.

I recall my first - and sadly, to date, only - trip to Berlin and I was out to eat with an American ex-pat who had settled there and I went to tip my normal 20% on the meal and he told me not to and that the custom was to only round up to the nearest Euro. He explained that all German workers have a guaranteed living wage and full health benefits and the cost of that factored into the prices and tax structure. Which is to say, manufacturing companies in the US have a fundamentally different relationship with labor than you folks in Europe do. It's also worth noting that Buck's heydays of growth in the 50s and 60s coincided with large domestic investment in the middle class, particularly around housing and education.

We can defer the discussion of the pros and cons of the US and European approaches to labor, but I think it very clear that the European model does a better job at protecting domestic manufacturing, and with it, the specialized professional skills needed.

All this to say that there's probably a connection with my ability to buy a 110 at Walmart for less than $30 and threads of this sort.
 
Yes, Your 919 has Custom stamped on the blade just like the other 250, 500 or 1000 they did in one of the few limited runs of the 919, but so do most of the limited edition Buck knives that came out in the past 25 years. which they made, in most cases a minimum of 100, but usually more like 500 - 1000 of each knife.

I'm not saying they didn't do more than one of a kinds before 25 years ago, but a lot of the blade etched runs in the late 80's and early 90's(that are also marked custom) just have a custom blade, and maybe a slight upgrade in handle material....

The point I'm trying to make is custom knife makers used to put their initials on Custom knives because they were proud of what they produced and in this case no one would put their initials on Haebbie's 501.(I know all the Buck boys are saying to themselves no one ever had or will initial a 501, and not all Custom knives from the 80's and early 90's have makers initials) but the difference and why I say there is no longer a Custom shop is because they do not have a group of people that show up everyday to make Custom knives, Custom kinife shop orders today get made by Buck employees who also work on their production knives. The standard is high, but QC is clearly not being met in todays Post Falls factory.

I see they put Custom knife shop on their website....but all they are offering you is a few additional options to a very small group of their knife line up. I'm glad there are people supporting Bucks current "Custom knife shop" but for the prices I see they have absolutely nothing to offer me....

I'm sure I'm leaving a lot out, but it is rare that I post anymore than pictures and a friendly "nice looking knives" here and there. My opinion shouldn't matter to anyone here, I know what I like and again, new Buck "Customs" rarely fit into what I like. With that said I pretty much only collect and use Buck knives, so they must do something right......

I see your point, the "Custom Knife Shop" used to be more than just custom by definition like it is today. That would be great if they still operated like that. Even at it's current capacity, I am very happy they are still doing it. Last year, I placed an order for $4,600 for 37 knives with the buck "custom" shop (for coworkers), all 110's with engravings, silver bolsters, cherry wood, and blades options in s30v, black oxide coated, and mirror polished 420hc. I personally inspected each knife individually, and F/F on every one was near perfect. The only "issues" were grease residue left on the black oxide knives, and it looked like they engraved the mirror polished blades before polishing making the engravings more faint but still readable (wouldn't have noticed without something to compare to). My favorite features were the hidden backspring pin and the spines of the black blades were mirror polished to match the handle when open(a very nice touch). Definitely a step above the standard production 110's but like you said, the price was steep, and many people I work with declined ordering due to the high price.

Also, speaking to their customer service; Before placing the order I asked for a batch order discount and they said they don't offer one, but went ahead and gave me a small price cut anyway when I actually placed the order.
 
I see your point, the "Custom Knife Shop" used to be more than just custom by definition like it is today. That would be great if they still operated like that. Even at it's current capacity, I am very happy they are still doing it. Last year, I placed an order for $4,600 for 37 knives with the buck "custom" shop (for coworkers), all 110's with engravings, silver bolsters, cherry wood, and blades options in s30v, black oxide coated, and mirror polished 420hc. I personally inspected each knife individually, and F/F on every one was near perfect. The only "issues" were grease residue left on the black oxide knives, and it looked like they engraved the mirror polished blades before polishing making the engravings more faint but still readable (wouldn't have noticed without something to compare to). My favorite features were the hidden backspring pin and the spines of the black blades were mirror polished to match the handle when open(a very nice touch). Definitely a step above the standard production 110's but like you said, the price was steep, and many people I work with declined ordering due to the high price.

Also, speaking to their customer service; Before placing the order I asked for a batch order discount and they said they don't offer one, but went ahead and gave me a small price cut anyway when I actually placed the order.

Sounds like a nice batch. Quite an order.
 
Yeah they did great. I also forgot to mention, at my request they serialized the batch, and they offered three methods of serialization due to the different blade options that were ordered. It's always a pleasure dealing with buck, and they usually go the extra mile even when you aren't spending a few thousand dollars.
 
Yeah, there were 3 different blade options but the knives were otherwise the same. One way they offered was to individually serialize each blade option as a separate batch within the entire batch of 37, like this:

S30V (12 knives) serialized: 1-12-37 through 12-12-37
420HC Mirror Polish (15 knives): 1-15-37 through 15-15-37
Black Oxide (10 knives): 1-10-37 through 10-10-37

The other way was something like "1 of 1-12" through "12 of 1-12", then "1 of 13-27" through "15 of 13-27" etc.

I just went with "1 of 37" through "37 of 37", but I thought it was nice they offered the options.
 
Haebbie,

"Professional grinder" or "professional cutlerer" is practically unheard of here in the US. Yes, we have a vibrant customer maker community but many get into knife making first as a second job or hobby. One place this really stands out to me in the knife world is in looking at European knife makers, particularly the number of small traditional French knife companies. I also suspect that the average length of employment in European knife companies by employees is much higher than that of (the few remaining) US-based manufacturers.

I recall my first - and sadly, to date, only - trip to Berlin and I was out to eat with an American ex-pat who had settled there and I went to tip my normal 20% on the meal and he told me not to and that the custom was to only round up to the nearest Euro. He explained that all German workers have a guaranteed living wage and full health benefits and the cost of that factored into the prices and tax structure. Which is to say, manufacturing companies in the US have a fundamentally different relationship with labor than you folks in Europe do. It's also worth noting that Buck's heydays of growth in the 50s and 60s coincided with large domestic investment in the middle class, particularly around housing and education.

We can defer the discussion of the pros and cons of the US and European approaches to labor, but I think it very clear that the European model does a better job at protecting domestic manufacturing, and with it, the specialized professional skills needed.

All this to say that there's probably a connection with my ability to buy a 110 at Walmart for less than $30 and threads of this sort.

Pinnah, what do you want to say with your answer? What I want to get to know is: Why is the quality of the two knives I got from the Buck custom shop worse than the quality of the factory knives I can buy at Sears, Cabelas or anywhere else?

Haebbie
 
Pinnah, what do you want to say with your answer? What I want to get to know is: Why is the quality of the two knives I got from the Buck custom shop worse than the quality of the factory knives I can buy at Sears, Cabelas or anywhere else?

Haebbie

Yes,luck of the draw. I think know the majority of people absolutely love what comes out of the custom shop. Myself included. Too bad your experiences are different than most
 
Buck does not have a Custom Knife shop. It closed in 1993. 25 years ago....They only put custom scales on a small handful of their production knives. If you want a real Buck custom you must look for something made over 25 years ago..... or get an employee service knife. Hardly any others made in the last 25 years even come close in comparison when it comes to perfection(fit finish etc...
Take a look at a production 110, then take a look at a 110 out of the custom shop. The quality isn't even close, the fit and finish on the custom shop knife is 100 times better. They do more than just put on custom scales, the quality of workmanship is better, and usually is 99.999% of the time.

Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk
 
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