Just returned from elk hunt; are we over thinking this?

CarsonWayne said:
We don't need anything more than this. And it'll never get lock stick!

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I'd hate to see the aftermath of an emergency tracheotomy. :eek:
 
Like anything else there are always going to be people that can and do get by with less. There are Afghani sheep hearders that will climb sheer rock cliffs in sandals. Does that mean hikers are "overthinking" it by going out and getting a new pair of hiking boots? Not really. Sure there are going to be those that get by just fine with the bare minimum but there are better tools for the job that make it easier, more pleasurable, and will result in less injury. Like a good pair of boots opposed to sandals.
 
Why is it surprising to some that the "obsolete" steels like 10xx and 440A which have been used for hunting knives for at least 100 years, (much longer for the 10xx carbon steels), that have successfully gutted and peeled countless critters, both large and small, still work?

I can/have field dressed 3 and peeled up to 3.5 whitetail deer (more than a single hunter) using knives from Western, Ontario/Old Hickory, Russell Green River Works, (USA) Old Timer, and a couple others with 1095 blade steel, before the blade required dry stropping to refresh the edge.

The "Schrade +" and Buck's 420HC blades will field dress and peel just as many whitetail before needing stropped.

(note: I had them sharpened to the (then) standard/"normal" for a knife 10DPS. I don't know if the now "standard" "Tactical" 15 - 20 DPS will last as long or longer. Geometry says that out of the gate, the more obtuse 30 or 40 degree inclusive edge angle will not cut or slice as well as the 20 degree inclusive edge angle.

Why do I "need" a more "advanced" blade steel that may hold an edge a little longer, takes considerably longer to sharpen, or, because of the hardness is more likely to chip (fixing a rolled edge takes seconds with a dry strop or leather boot upper). The simple and "obsolete" blade steels hold an edge long enough for what I am/was doing, and were easy enough to resharpen in the field if necessary - without having to remember to pack a diamond stone in the pack. (Not to mention the deer limit per person in most jurisdictions is two deer - if you managed to get two tags.)

if you "think' or "worry" about what the blade steel is, or what the knife cost, then yes. You are "over thinking it."

A high priced knife will not necessarily cut or slice better than an inexpensive one. Look at the "lowly" Opinel. Few if any knives; including those intended for the kitchen, or how many hundreds or thousands of dollars the cost, will out-cut or out slice an $12.00 - $15.00 Opinel.

The Opinel is quite capable of cleaning and peeling game (and fish), too. :)
 
afishhunter,

You are right. I've been gutting, quartering, skinning, dressing and fileting all many of critters for some time as well; Buck's 420HC and variants of 1095 or 10XX have done me quite well; I never wanted for more.

I like like nice knives as much as the next guy and while I've used a Buck 110 many times for many things, I prefer fixed blades. Becker's 1095 CroVan, Cold Steel's Carbon V 52100 (basically the same thing as I understand) and 52100 work very well on game at a price point that's not t9oo hard on the wallet.
 
Yep, way overthinking it. If you want to know how to do a task and what to use, look at what the professionals use, INEXPENSIVE commercial cutlery that is easy to keep a keen edge. Knifenuts also tend to use sub-optimal knives for a given task, but that's why they're knifenuts. Folders in the kitchen, why? There's so much great kitchen cutlery to get into. Do what makes you happy.:thumbsup:
 
Hunting in Africa is an interesting experience. I'm not talking about expensive safaris, just general hunting for meat to take home for the pot or to make into biltong (jerky). My experience has been in the semi-desert Karoo (open plains hunting for Springbok and occasionally Kudu - Springbok taken anywhere between 50 to 180 yards or so, Kudu generally hunted in the riverine bush of dry riverbeds - 30 to 100 yards) and sometimes hunting in the bushveld in the north-east of South Africa (Impala at 30 - 80 yards or so).
The farmer (and guide) will always provide staff to do the skinning and butchering. Of interest to this post is the knives in use by the farmhands - they range from Opinels to service station type knives to hand made knives made of old oil cans heated, rolled and beaten into a knife blade in Damascus fashion with a tang formed at one end. The handle is made from a piece of wood cut from a tree or even from a piece of old broomstick handle. Occasionally one of the older fellows will proudly wield a better quality knife (Boker, Kershaw ...) which was gifted to him by a passing hunter. The one factor common to all these knives is that they are exceptionally sharp and they get the job done.

From personal experience I will say that there is nothing more annoying than having to wash a knife in cold Karoo water so that it can be sharpened so that the skinning can continue. Good blade steel should enable easy skinning and butchering of a good many buck before it needs sharpening. I've found 440C to be quite adequate.
 
I'd like to share my cutlery life story... I started my career on a dairy farm (other than my grandads) at about age 14 making hay with a cheapo folder in my pocket. I then moved to various box cutteresque deals because they were sharper than my folder, to an uncle Henry stockman that I carried through college until I bought a Spyderco native in s30v working at Walmart (about the age of 18 mind you I graduated high school in 2006). I then carried various folders from Spyderco and Benchmade in s30v until I left my job working for the international tree service with the big orange trucks in January of 2016. Then, when not limited by various utility company restrictions and self employed, I began to experiment with short sheath knives... Moras and the like. This brings me to present day, at the ripe old age of 32, I now EDC a Douk Douk, and a victorinox pioneer, along with a sheath knife in my bag that changes as various seasons come and go. In my travels as an edged tool enthusiast I have come to prefer the easily maintained over the long holding of an edge. Just this past spring, my small business (my little brother, Dad, and myself) were contracted to finish a wildlife crossing fence at a local state park. My Douk Douk did 90 percent of the cutting of some really heavy plastic, in the dirt, all day. I kept it up with a round saw file and a few passes on the top edge of a pickup window. I don't care what super steel a knife might be made from, run it through the mud a few times cutting stuff outdoors it's going to get dull in a hurry. I'll be the first to say that's not what I usually put a knife through, my knives don't do anything more exciting than dressing ropes, but that particular job made me really appreciate an easily touched up blade.

All of that bloviating brings me to my end opinion, no we don't overthink it... We as enthusiasts of the sharpened edge just like cool stuff. I guess it all comes down to why we became enthusiasts.

(Edited for some redundancy)
 
While I can see both sides of this discussion, I'm also seeing some straw man arguments that I'll set fire to...

Having a premium steel (super steel, if you'd like), doesn't mean harder to sharpen. I have a hunting knife in 10V that is incredibly easy to take from butter knife dull to razor sharpness in 2 or 3 minutes. No problem. It will hold it's edge far longer than however many deer or elk you are field dressing. It has a great heat treat and the correct geometry to optimize its performance.

It's far easier to sharpen than chasing a burr on a soft steel that hasn't been heat treated properly.
 
My 20CV Bugout and Hogue Deka proved easier to sharpen for me than quality D2. both being sharpened using diamond stones. I haven't been into knives but for a few years but it appears that we may be in a good time for steel development, excellent edge retention without being a nightmare to maintain.
 
sodak said:
While I can see both sides of this discussion, I'm also seeing some straw man arguments that I'll set fire to...
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I understand your point, but dismissing other folks experience as straw man isn't particularly fair either... My personal preference goes to a non stainless steel because I like the character of a patina. I really haven't bothered to keep up on the latest powder metallurgy (frankly steel type is one of the last things I consider when buying a knife, I don't care what it is, geometry and heat treat are key. It also seems easier to find a knife with the geometry that I like in carbon rather than super steel.), but what does one use to re sharpen the edge of a 10v knife? Can a satisfactory edge be had with little more than an old file, followed by a strip on a boot top or belt? Or does one have to invest in a more aggressive sharpening method? Price for performance also comes into play at some point.

I now have to delve into the other side... I cut trees professionally, so I spend my money on professional grade saws. Just dropped $1100 recently to replace a 9 year old butt saw. Could I get by with cheaper gear? Of course, but efficiency starts coming to the fore while doing a few hundred removals a year. Luckily selecting a saw chain is fairly easy compared to choosing a knife...
 
CVamberbonehead said:
Im not sure that were overthinking, I think that hunting guide is under thinking it. lol Theres no reason to use such a crappy knife if youre a guide. To each their own though.
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I agree with this and along the lines of some other posters talking about the restaurant industry. There’s nothing wrong with cheap knives but if your job revolves around using a tool, maintain the tool. That’s part of the job. Machinists strip down, clean and maintain there equipment on a regular schedule. Same with countless other industries. It’s good business. Same should be done here. Especially since the bar is so low. Basic knife knowledge isn’t rocket science.

That’s just my opinion. The guy can run his business however he likes.[shrugs]
 
Back in 2008, my son and I hunted moose in northern Alberta. Our guide was a young fellow. A bit younger than my son. He struggled mightily getting a moose dressed with an old, and dull fixed blade Buck. I handed him my Bob Dozier D-2 drop point to use and he was like a kid with a new toy!

When we left to come home, I touched up the edge and gave it to the young fellow along with a DMT stone.

I definitely made a convert to Dozier knives.:):thumbsup::)
 
For many years I used folders for deer hunting. A Gerber folder I got as a Christmas present and an eye brand trapper. The trapper was used for skinning and the Gerber for everything else. I once had to do the job with just a Buck 301. Got the job done but not wanting to do that again. Around 1980 I got a Bob Jones custom and have used that ever since. I think the fixed blade may make the job a little easier, especially with cleanup but if I had to use pocket folders again I know I could still get it done
 
I like a simple carbon or tool steel run a bit on the soft side for most of my game processing. Though these days 3V has replaced my go to deer cleaning knife. I have a hunting knife from Cold Steel in it and that thing can go forever before it needs to be touched up. It doesn't mind bouncing off of the occasional bone either. I really like it. But this side of 3V, give me a 10xx series carbon steel knife thin behind the edge and I'll clean game all day long. I can pick up a decent rock out of a creek and maintain it too.
 
I have never been into the "latest and greatest" steels. All my current "user" hunting knives are made of 440A - 1980s and 1990s era wood handled (W82, W83, W84, W85) by Western or Coleman-Western and rubber handled (R2, R16, R18) Westerns made by Coleman-Western or Camillus.

They are easily sharpened in the field if necessary and exremely easy to clean after field dressing a deer or hog.
 
I don't know about hunting, but I do know about cutting a friend out of a entanglement with a non marked fishing net while spearfishing with his head submerged 3 feet and unable to surface for air... and while my knife at the time sufficed (Aitor Delfin)... I came to understand the need of an uber sharp, non corrosive, properly serrated blade when you need to cut something FAST.

Soon after that I bought a not-so-stainless blade and handled it myself. While it cuts well, long term corrosion is an issue... because it eats up the very edge. So recently I have bought a Spyderco Fish Hunter in H1, which I expect to be the ultimate spearfishing knife (although the stock sheath sucks big time and I will need to make a kydex one with calf straps).

So, do cheap diving knives work? Yes. Do cheap diving knives inspire any confidence when things go south? Not so much.

Same goes with climbing and any job where rope management is involved. I carry a Spyderco Rescue for those situations.

Mikel
 
oldmanwilly said:
I wonder if two Neolithic persons ever had a similar conversation where one said "You traded 2 goats for your fancy bronze knife!? That's nice and all, but my flake of flint cuts just fine and is literally free."

Sure, plenty of simple and inexpensive tools with simple and inexpensive materials are good enough to get the job done. That doesn't mean that we have to settle for "good enough." Obsidian was good enough for the Aztecs for a long time until they came up against Spanish steel (nevermind for now smallpox and other trifles). Granted, the debate over flint vs. steel is not the same as the debate over a beaten up Gerber Gator vs. a $300 CPK Field Knife.

I do not think we are "overthinking" things when we seek out the latest and greatest designs and materials to make cutting tasks easier and more enjoyable. Heck, if it wasn't for people like us we might not have the absolute glut of high quality knives that we are currently spoiled with. Why make better knives when there's plenty that are good enough?

*Before any of you ask: no, I am totally not trying to rationalize any of my recent knife purchases...:rolleyes:
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Money!
 
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