Just saw this.....Bark River is no more?

[1066vik]

As stated by others above, because of the steel mislabel scandal, there will be no real way to know which BR is as it says and which is not, so their value will greatly plummet--- but I will assume the old(er) bark river knives, especially those made in A2 are the real deal.
I would not trust any newer pieces to be as it's advertised at all and will assume the value of those cant be ascertained. Either way MS is finished, no one in this industry will ever want to work with him on anything knife related ever again.

They said the same thing in 96 after all the dust from the original Blackjack settled - then Marbles hired him.
They said it again after his post Marbles legal issues, and again right after he started BRK.

Only time will tell.

 

[Danny Linguini]

Maybe I need to re-read the hall of shame thread but did Survive ever lie about the materials they were using, on the knives they actually did get out the door? Thought they were mainly just not delivering product

I cannot confirm mislabeling of blade steels, though I can’t rule it out, either. I do recall a lot of squawking about corrosion on MagnaCut blanks that were blamed on a bad batch (or batches) that brought the actual steel being used into question. But then of course there were the numerous other ‘misrepresentations’, such as knives supposedly in stock and ready for shipping that were paid for but never delivered, and full advance payments for pre-orders that were used instead for who-knows-what instead of the knives that were being ordered. Those people did all kinds of bad things while promising to be turning things around and getting back on track … for about 10 years. The sins weren’t necessarily the same, but I’d say they were equally grievous. Bottom line, customers, business partners and creditors were all harmed, most with no possibility of recourse.

 

[Larrin]

Not trying to defend BRK, but wanted to point out something about Magnacut and other tool/stainless steels!

Some stainless/tool steels have different tempering cycles that can be used, which can effect the stain resistance of the steel. So heat treating can play a part in stainless steels staining. But Magnacut is not "stainless" in the traditional sense in terms of amount of Chromium in the steel percentage wise (D2 is just below "stainless" as well), but there is something to how the other alloys make Magnacut very stain resistant, 2nd to Vanax, even though by the % definition, it's not "stainless". Larrin talks about this in some of his articles about Magnacut and how some steels have 2 different tempering ranges that can be used. Most opt for the lower temperature cycles, which usually have better fine edge retention and toughness and stain resistance over the high temperatures, which are often used in industrial use so the steels don't overheat during use and de temper themselves.

I have also seen in my own shop with using the same belts/dunk bucket for carbon and stainless steels, sometimes stainless steels can appear to "rust" when I am at coarser grits due to the carbon steel particles still being on the blade and those rusting. I saw the pics online from BRK about the Magnacut staining, but they run it at 62 HRC and if they use the higher tempering protocols, the steel may be less stain resistant. If I scrubbed the blade well and cleaned it better, it stopped and stopped as I went up to high grits and the larger particles weren't getting stuck in the grit scratches.

I remember seeing some other brands, maybe Ambush and ATK, (removed the other company name since I can't find the info anymore).

They also did mid techs and produced production models for other makers at different points, too, as like a collaboration. They also helped a lot of smaller custom/semi custom makers learn how to make knives and helped them do batches and stuff, so a lot of custom makers got their start with BRK and went on their own from there.

It is a myth that D2 isn’t classified as stainless because the chromium isn’t high enough. It isn’t a stainless because of the other elements along with that chromium, especially the amount of carbon along with that amount of chromium. MagnaCut would be classified as a stainless.

 

[John Phillips]

Are there any experts/metallurgists here that can test older knives to see if they are the steel they claim to be? Can this even be done?

 

[John Phillips]

Interesting that I called BRK a month ago when I discovered my blue cholla cactus fire starter completely fell apart by just being stored, literally cactus and turquoise material became dust and the rod was coming out. I had it stored in a cool normal environment too, never used. They said they didn’t have any blue cholla cactus but would replace it with something. I forgot to send it in but I just find this interesting. More trash material.

 

[Arathol]

Are there any experts/metallurgists here that can test older knives to see if they are the steel they claim to be? Can this even be done?

Of course it can be done. A fairly simple XRF test will tell you what the composition is.

 

[marcus aurelius]

Are there any experts/metallurgists here that can test older knives to see if they are the steel they claim to be? Can this even be done?

That could be Bark River's final gift to the knife community - Creating the need for an entire new category of businesses that accurately identify and certify blade steels.

 

[ShaiHulud]

That could be Bark River's final gift to the knife community - Creating the need for an entire new category of businesses that accurately identify and certify blade steels.

The need for that would be sad, really

 

[Taz]

Many knife steels were used in tool and die industry, where they may need the higher temperature tempering. A cutter blade may get hot from friction, so tempering in the 1000 range would allow for it to not lose it's edge retention if it stays below that temp. Friction can heat up blades quickly! Some alloys also let the steel get a 2nd hardening bump, precipitation hardening that may be beneficial.

Larrin, I thought it was at 13% chromium when a steel was considered stainless or is that incorrect? I know there is a difference between chromium content and chromium in solution, maybe that is where I am confused?

 

[DustinK]

I saw the Reddit post not long after it was posted yesterday and assumed it was some rumormongering but wow, I guess not. I’ve been tempted over the years by BRK a few times because they did make some pretty knives from a distance but the pretty regular horror stories kept me away thankfully.

For such an expensive brand they had more regular complaints than any other brand anywhere near their price point. Where there’s smoke there’s fire it seems.

 

[Larrin]

Many knife steels were used in tool and die industry, where they may need the higher temperature tempering. A cutter blade may get hot from friction, so tempering in the 1000 range would allow for it to not lose it's edge retention if it stays below that temp. Friction can heat up blades quickly! Some alloys also let the steel get a 2nd hardening bump, precipitation hardening that may be beneficial.

Larrin, I thought it was at 13% chromium when a steel was considered stainless or is that incorrect? I know there is a difference between chromium content and chromium in solution, maybe that is where I am confused?

10.5%. Some sources will say 11%, or 10.5-11%. It’s not really a fixed cutoff.

Yes it is true that chromium in solution is the more important metric, these overly simplified definitions are just a starting point.

 

[Taz]

Ah, ok! Thanks! I always heard of D2 as semi stainless because it didn't have enough chromium to be "fully stainless". But it's the chromium in solution that matters and how it reacts with the other alloys!

 

[Tritium]

I had over a dozen and sold them off years ago. I just couldn't get past the goofy grinds. Thank you OCD!

 

[John Phillips]

I just went to a very popular BRK dealer site and counted the total number of Bark River knives currently for sale which was 5,898 knives. Even at an average sale price of $250, that’s $1,474,500 in BRK inventory.

 

[JearBeatus48]

I just went to a very popular BRK dealer site and counted the total number of Bark River knives currently for sale which was 5,898 knives. Even at an average sale price of $250, that’s $1,474,500 in BRK inventory.

I am curious how many were considered for sale but out of stock?

Maybe it excluded out of stock but dang…that’s a ton!!!

 

[KentuckyBlackBird]

I remember when BRK started using magnacut and it started to rust easily, from steak and stuff. BRK convinced the owners that this was normal for magnacut and magnacut wasn't a true stainless steel.
Ha...so sad.

What I don't understand is how people can deceive others so readily, for what, for money? I just don't get it. How much money could Mike be making anyway?
And at his age, surely money would stop being your priority....

Why not just use legit steel and make a living that way? If BRK just used legit steel and backed their warranty, surely they'd be some of the most popular and sought after knives. It is hard to deny they have great designs.

I would assume extreme debt would be the driver, or extreme greed. Just speculation though.

 

[Dagoth_Blur]

I had over a dozen and sold them off years ago. I just couldn't get past the goofy grinds. Thank you OCD!

What grinds are you referring to? A style of grind or uneven grinding?

 

[John Phillips]

I am curious how many were considered for sale but out of stock?

Maybe it excluded out of stock but dang…that’s a ton!!!

I counted the ones in stock selecting random ones on every 10th page or so. I may be wrong but I selected over 40 random knives throughout the 295 pages of knives. They have 295 pages total with 20 knives on each page. All the ones I selected were available.

 

[marcus aurelius]

I just went to a very popular BRK dealer site and counted the total number of Bark River knives currently for sale which was 5,898 knives. Even at an average sale price of $250, that’s $1,474,500 in BRK inventory.

That strikes me as incredibly high. After a dealer had several hundred sitting on the shelf, they would stop ordering new ones. Even the Sultan of Brunei's knife dealer would stop at 1000 sitting on the shelf that they couldn't sell. See if they have an "in stock" filter to help you out. I doubt BRK has 6k knives sitting around.

 

[JearBeatus48]

I counted the ones in stock selecting random ones on every 10th page or so. I may be wrong but I selected over 40 random knives throughout the 295 pages of knives. They have 295 pages total with 20 knives on each page. All the ones I selected were available.

That is quite the inventory. Pretty insane to think about.