Just saw this.....Bark River is no more?

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gamma_nyc said:
AI thinks XRF testing will cost $50-150 per basic test... I'd guess DLT can get a volume discount, but at what point does that test kill any profit margin?

Maybe they can negotiate with a metal tester to give a fixed price for metal testing? That can be applied to new knives and existing knives?
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Arathol said:
Well I would think that once you have one, you would use it on everything, not just the BRK blades just in case. Having a blade composition certification might be a selling point and would protect a dealer from stuff like this in the future. Puma used to do a hardness test on every blade, and it was pointed out in the advertising.
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The additional cost would be added to each knife, even if they had their own machine. Cost of the machine. Cost of training the operator. Cost of opening each box and testing each knife.
I don't know about you, but a $50 increase in the cost of a knife would put a lot of knives out of my financial reach.
 
beeinak said:
And they certainly would have an easy explanation to the accountant as to why it is a legitimate business expense.
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Easily. Hell, the situation could be spun into a positive where the dealer steps up to gain complete confidence of the buyers, ensuring not 1 potential pot steel blade makes it through. Now that would be a dealer I'd buy from.
 
knarfeng said:
I think blade testing is one of the options they have been considering.
As the DLT web site states, they are still trying to figure out what to do.

But I don't expect them to just eat 5,000 knives and go belly up themselves.
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As it is, regardless what DLT does with its remaining BR stock, going forward DLT is losing around 20% of its sales. At least at one time BR was that much of their net revenue. Even if it’s no longer 20%, it’s still a pretty big long-term hit.
 
gamma_nyc said:
XRF testing would be value add when the knifemaker’s integrity was questionable.

I would not see much value add in XRF testing a Spyderco, for instance.
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True, though if a dealer did in house certification it couldn't hurt in my opinion. What they uncover though might be a doozy.
 
knarfeng said:
The additional cost would be added to each knife, even if they had their own machine. Cost of the machine. Cost of training the operator. Cost of opening each box and testing each knife.
I don't know about you, but a $50 increase in the cost of a knife would put a lot of knives out of my financial reach.
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I certainly agree there would be costs associated, but maybe lessen the profit margin to move knives that may otherwise sit for a while. I am confident DLT will make the right decisions for themselves and customers.
Regardless how this all came about, I can’t imagine the headache and stress it is causing DLT.
 
knarfeng said:
The additional cost would be added to each knife, even if they had their own machine. Cost of the machine. Cost of training the operator. Cost of opening each box and testing each knife.
I don't know about you, but a $50 increase in the cost of a knife would put a lot of knives out of my financial reach.
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That shouldn't add $50 to the cost. If you have thousands of knives in your inventory. 25K over 5k knives is just $5, and they have thousands of other makers in stock too that the cost could be spread over.
Training....anybody can use one. Its just point and shoot basically, and see if the numbers match. Most of the better pawn shops have them now to protect themselves from fraud. With the way things are today its the cost of doing business...If I'm buying a knife thats over $300, I'd like to know if it real.
 
Arathol said:
That shouldn't add $50 to the cost. If you have thousands of knives in your inventory. 25K over 5k knives is just $5, and they have thousands of other makers in stock too that the cost could be spread over.
Training....anybody can use one. Its just point and shoot basically, and see if the numbers match. Most of the better pawn shops have them now to protect themselves from fraud. With the way things are today its the cost of doing business...If I'm buying a knife thats over $300, I'd like to know if it real.
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Ok, but if the knife maker is not credible then the XRF result still doesn’t completely solve the issue. What about heat treat? What about handle materials? What about everything else that treat based on faith?
 
gamma_nyc said:
AI thinks XRF testing will cost $50-150 per basic test... I'd guess DLT can get a volume discount, but at what point does that test kill any profit margin?

Maybe they can negotiate with a metal tester to give a fixed price for metal testing? That can be applied to new knives and existing knives?
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XRF testers have become mainstream enough that rental units are highly available and are simple to use.
 
Virtuovice (the Japanese Deer Hunter on YouTube) got me into Bark River years ago. Taught me how to sharpen convex edges. That's why DBK likes Bark River. They learned to sharpen from him and even bought some of his BRK collection. He made a video about 15 years ago complaining about new BRK models not being as good as the old ones. He said something like, "New Bark River Knives are just tools, poorly made tools!!!" He had to regrind them by hand. I think they just could not keep up with demand and started cutting corners and that started 15 to 20 years ago and has been downhill since.

BTW, I think Virtuovice may have passed away. I can't find proof of that, but I wish I knew for sure. He feels like family to me. Like an uncle or older brother.
 
Knives&Lint said:
I certainly sympathize with the dealers, but did they not know they were dealing with someone with a history of questionable integrity?
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BINGO... Mike Stewart's history, reputation, etc. in the knife industry spans decades and is well documented and yet those dealers still willingly chose to do business with him.
 
katguy said:
Virtuovice (the Japanese Deer Hunter on YouTube) got me into Bark River years ago. Taught me how to sharpen convex edges. That's why DBK likes Bark River. They learned to sharpen from him and even bought some of his BRK collection. He made a video about 15 years ago complaining about new BRK models not being as good as the old ones. He said something like, "New Bark River Knives are just tools, poorly made tools!!!" He had to regrind them by hand. I think they just could not keep up with demand and started cutting corners and that started 15 to 20 years ago and has been downhill since.

BTW, I think Virtuovice may have passed away. I can't find proof of that, but I wish I knew for sure. He feels like family to me. Like an uncle or older brother.
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I like his vids, haven't watched him in years but that stinks if he passed.
 
Not only would I want to know what the steel actually is, I'd also want to make sure the heat treat is correct as well. So now we're talking a Rockwell hardness tester as well. Then a paper certification that goes with the knife so you know it's been tested and it's genuine. Every aspect of the knife is now in question. The one reason we buy premium knives is so we can be assured that what were purchasing is genuine. That's part of what we pay for.
 
Boru13 said:
BINGO... Mike Stewart's history, reputation, etc. in the knife industry spans decades and is well documented and yet those dealers still willingly chose to do business with him.
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That's exactly how I feel. It's like hang out with cracked bums and then getting robbed, it's hard to feel bad for you. Don't hang out with crackhead bums? I understand the wholesale price was probably to good to pass up, but this is the risk you take.
 
HRC tells next to nothing except the hardness in that area, which usually needs to be flat and parallel. I messed up and heat treated a blade that I thought was AEBL and it was 1095. Showed 63 HRC after tempering, but grain was HUGE and super brittle. So the HRC was right, but the grain structure was horrible. You can overheat the entire edge, but if you test a flat spot at the ricasso, it could be perfectly fine.

Integrity matters.
 
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