Kansas Knife Ban Bill Introduced

Twindog said:
I clearly explained the Big Lie in his OP. I clearly showed it was a lie.

Now look at all the personal business links he adds: click here and buy a newsletter, or a flashlight, or a big knife, or a little knife, or a survival pack ... on and on. He makes money off these endeavors and that merchandise -- and off these threads.

The idea that this proposed law is a threat to knife owners is a joke.

If you want non-knife people to respect our tools/hobbies, treat those people with respect and use your knives responsibly.
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:poop:
 
Twindog said:
The idea that this proposed law is a threat to knife owners is a joke.
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It's laws exactly like these which have prevented respectful-of-others, law-abiding knife owners from reasonably carrying all manner of safely used knives for any number of reasons that don't involve assaulting other people. It's vaguely worded anti-knife laws just like this that have allowed New York City police and Attorney General prosecutors to target minorities for carrying knives like Spydercos and Benchmades.

This law is an absolute threat to knife owners and I'm glad to hear that it's likely to fall flat on its face.

Twindog said:
If you want non-knife people to respect our tools/hobbies, treat those people with respect and use your knives responsibly.
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Beautiful strawman. 10/10
 
I'm probably just another bad apple in that big rotten "basket of deplorables ", but if you examine the places where people have lost all their rights ; it always starts out by appeasement of more somewhat "reasonable" laws . Then comes the next encroachment , etc . Some compromises should never be made !
 
Obviously, YMMV, and that’s fine.

My 2% of 1 USD...

1) Giving more tools to the opposition is never a good idea.
2) Regardless of affiliation, politicians make their living demonizing objects. Doing so is far, far easier than solving the core problem.
 
Twindog said:
Nope. I don't have any idea whether this is a good or bad bill.

I pointed out that Doug Ritter's rabble-rousing post was not correct, as usual. Ritter says: "...but without mention in the bill summary it sneakily also would reinstate "dagger, dirk, ... dangerous knife, straight-edged razor, stiletto" as prohibited knives."

It does not prohibit those knives. That's a lie. It would prohibit possession of those weapons if the person was specifically intending to use those weapons to illegally kill or wound another person. Think of cops stopping a gang of white nationalists carrying guns and daggers while descending on a peaceful demonstration for immigrant rights. In that case, the cops could intervene.

But intent is very hard to prove. Criminal prosecution requires proof beyond a reasonable doubt. Here's a primer:
https://www.americanbar.org/content..._sac/2014_sac/best_practices.authcheckdam.pdf

Ritter does nothing for knife rights. He's just in it for his own personal gain. And he targets conservatives who think liberals are going to take away their knives. So we get: "The enemies of freedom never sleep." Only Ritter can stop the evil liberals, blah, blah, blah. See his website, blah, blah, blah. Send him money, blah, blah, blah. Sign up for more marketing propaganda, blah, blah, blah.
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constructive criticism is always a good thing. im sure even Mr. Ritter welcomes it. not sure the way you did this is constructive though. then again maybe y'all have a long running feud im unaware of? so be it......

so what are you doing to eliminate outdated and restrictive knife laws around the country...beside using legal knives in a decent manner or how ever you put it?
 
There is enough on point discussion that I am going to leave the thread open. But that means I now have to go write a bunch of warnings for the political nonsense posts.

Discuss the law in question.
The insulting posts will cease.
The general political comments will cease.
It is perfectly fine to disagree. It is not fine to phrase the disagreement as an insult.
 
Mr, Ritter has been given permission by Spark to post his announcements in General Forum. Therefore, on-topic discussion which occurs in those threads is permitted, even though it ranges somewhat into the edges of the political spectrum.
 
Just a suggestion from all the comments, public and private, move this to somewhere in the community forums. There’s no way discussing law cannot be considered political. I can’t find any post in the thread, minus the previous two, that are could not be construed as political in some way, at least in my opinion. My 2 cents is that the OP be encouraged to post such topics in General with a brief description of the thread that gets posted in Community and linked to it. This would allow more free ranging discussion of the topic by those passionate around it while leaving the General forum for discussion about knives.
 
I can't see how this thread can NOT be political . A law bill is only important in it's consequences and political motivations . And only truly important in the larger context of national politics . The chances of this passing in Kansas , if the voters are informed , is next to nil . But the national agenda behind such laws doesn't originate in any one state and shouldn't be ignored in attempts to counteract the more general problem of policy . This needs to be addressed at the national / federal level with laws that supersede state and local restrictions and reinforce basic constitutional rights of all USA citizens to " keep and bear arms " ! :cool::thumbsup::thumbsup:
 
Threads which are deemed to be truly "political" in nature go in the Political Forum, not Community. But I do not consider this a "political" thread. And according to my memory, the owner of BF has said these Knife Rights threads can be posted in General Forum. I'm not enthused with the concept of overriding him.

As long as the discussion centers around the specific law in the thread topic, I don't see that there has to be a problem. There is law. There is politics. They are related, but separate items. It is possible to discuss a law without discussing political side issues. A number of posts in this thread did just that. There are other posts in this thread whose main focus was the law but which also mentioned related political issues. I think those posts are acceptable, given the topic.

At this point, I'd like to return the focus to the topic of the thread, the proposed Kansas knife law.
 
Twindog said:
I clearly explained the Big Lie in his OP. I clearly showed it was a lie.

Now look at all the personal business links he adds: click here and buy a newsletter, or a flashlight, or a big knife, or a little knife, or a survival pack ... on and on. He makes money off these endeavors and that merchandise -- and off these threads.

The idea that this proposed law is a threat to knife owners is a joke.

If you want non-knife people to respect our tools/hobbies, treat those people with respect and use your knives responsibly.
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How do you suppose laws get changed?

It costs hundreds of thousands of dollars or more to lobby for our rights. It takes years of work, bills get rejected and have to be sent back repeatedly. The people who do this time consuming and stressful job have families. I suppose you want it done for free? Or you don't want it done at all?

The job Doug has undertaken is MONUMENTAL it entrenched him in expensive legal battles all across America. He needs help financially and support of the citizens he's trying to help.

Let me guess, attorneys are free:rolleyes:?

The Kansas knife bill he alerted us to is similar to the way my state worded the vague useless law. It stopped nothing but allowed police to discriminate against certain groups and people.

Dougs diligence is amazing and I'm freaking proud that someone cares enough to fight a gargantuan battle all across America so knife owners can be free of persecution. So knife owners can carry any knife we'd like. So knife owners can show other people knives are an object like a rock or car and 99% of people use them as tools.


Legal battles aren't free. He has a family too, nothing about fighting archaic laws that are redundant and inert is cheap.

I can't make you see that, though.
 
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I support the opposition of vague and loosely defined laws. A ban on specific knives is neither here nor there, and more of a political discussion, but a ban on... something sometimes and.can be applied to some people in certain situations is just poor etiquette at best.

I could see a ban on dagger blades, or a ban on multi-edged bladed, maybe a ban on combo edges (ok that one is just personal hatred), large blades specifically... any specifics, but this law is just vague and pointless because it doesn't even clearly say what it does.
 
Thanks Doug for protecting my rights to own my favorite tool. ;):)

They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.”
― Benjamin Franklin
 
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SpySmasher said:
This is actually the first KnifeRights thread that I have seen generate any discussion apart from support. :eek:
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You haven't read enough of 'em, then. ;)

I think opposing the language concerning knives in the bill is good. I think most of the work Knife Rights and Mr. Ritter does is good. I think hyperbolic fear mongering and inaccurate descriptions of what is being done is not only bad, but serves to undermine the good work being done.
 
skyhorse said:
Thanks Doug for protecting my rights to own my favorite tool. ;):)

They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.”
― Benjamin Franklin
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Agreed.
Insipid Moniker said:
You haven't read enough of 'em, then. ;)

I think opposing the language concerning knives in the bill is good. I think most of the work Knife Rights and Mr. Ritter does is good. I think hyperbolic fear mongering and inaccurate descriptions of what is being done is not only bad, but serves to undermine the good work being done.
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Richard, we agree on many points but I disagree on this one. Not a big deal, can't agree on everything.
 
I think the bottom line is that laws like these are infringing upon rights that are reasonable, without offering anything whatsoever in return. They don't offer piece of mind, because they do nothing to solve the problem that they claim to address and they create problems for otherwise law abiding citizens. You will never stop someone who is intent on harming someone else, or robbing a store etc. with these laws. There are already laws in place that they will be breaking, and that is what they will be charged with.

I think it's great what Mr. Ritter is doing and I think it's great that he is so passionate about it. If there are legitimate concerns about his methodology, I'm sure he would be willing to look at that and see how it can be improved upon. I'm also sure that this is all very costly and he must keep finding ways to raise the money that's necessary to continue the fight.

I bet he would welcome some good suggestions!:thumbsup:

How about a BFC raffle for a custom made collaboration knife with all proceeds going to Knife Rights!??

Anybody else have any ideas?
 
danbot said:
I think the bottom line is that laws like these are infringing upon rights that are reasonable, without offering anything whatsoever in return. They don't offer piece of mind, because they do nothing to solve the problem that they claim to address and they create problems for otherwise law abiding citizens. You will never stop someone who is intent on harming someone else, or robbing a store etc. with these laws. There are already laws in place that they will be breaking, and that is what they will be charged with.

I think it's great what Mr. Ritter is doing and I think it's great that he is so passionate about it. If there are legitimate concerns about his methodology, I'm sure he would be willing to look at that and see how it can be improved upon. I'm also sure that this is all very costly and he must keep finding ways to raise the money that's necessary to continue the fight.

I bet he would welcome some good suggestions!:thumbsup:

How about a BFC raffle for a custom made collaboration knife with all proceeds going to Knife Rights!??

Anybody else have any ideas?
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Agreed completely. I'd be willing to throw in a knife for auction to go to knife rights.

I don't think the semantics over his wording over shadows the tremendous good he's doing for all of us.
 
shinyedges said:
Agreed completely. I'd be willing to throw in a knife for auction to go to knife rights.

I don't think the semantics over his wording over shadows the tremendous good he's doing for all of us.
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Alhough my idea is not at all original, I don't recall it ever being done here for the benefit of Knife Rights.
 
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