Kansas Knife Ban Bill Introduced

Twindog said:
I clearly explained the Big Lie in his OP. I clearly showed it was a lie.
Now look at all the personal business links he adds: click here and buy a newsletter, or a flashlight, or a big knife, or a little knife, or a survival pack ... on and on. He makes money off these endeavors and that merchandise -- and off these threads.
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The wording of the OP and the wording of the actual proposed changes have both obviously caused some confusion here. Fair enough. The fact that Doug makes money via his knife related activities and that his work heading up KR is helpful to this end is no secret. I don't see how any of this illustrates systematic dishonesty or a lack of effectiveness at countering bad knife laws or shows that Doug is involved in the whole thing solely for financial gain. I'd say there's been vastly greater evidence over the years showing just the contrary. Like I said, each of us has a right to our opinions on the topic, but I think the wording of your post that I originally quoted and took issue with is about as hyperbolic as you accused Doug of being. ;)
 
Intent is hard to prove yes, but that doesn't mean a cop can't throw you in a squad car because they're having a bad day and you have a big ole "scary looking" knife (coming from a 3-inch state myself). They can hold you for a good couple days too, without charging you, before they let you go. A lack of intent doesn't do any good in that situation.

Good on you, Mr Ritter, for fighting the good fight.
 
Tommy-Chi said:
Just what do you think defending yourself with a knife is?

Believe me, you do not want to allow this Bill to pass and it must be fought tooth and nail all the way.
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Very few people understand the meaning of self defence. It is a legally defined term and it is an affirmative defense in court.
 
Tommy-Chi said:
"It is a legally defined term and it is an affirmative defense in court....." if you can afford the lawyer.

I had prosecutors that would not budge in 2 different court rooms under 2 different judges. If you ever intend to defend yourself, ahead of time, you had better buy insurance for the purpose of self defense and have deep pockets. I ended up with a misdemeanor, and every month for two years had to visit a parole officer. I was at least 50yrs old at the time.

The Chicago cop that placed me under arrest was arrogant. He asked me what happened and before I could speak for 30 seconds he pulled me out of the car and handcuffed me, and off to the precinct lockup we went.

Before you think I have a problem with cops, my brother is a 25yr current member of the Chicago Police Dept and works at the HQ. I have a cousin being promoted to COMMANDER on the CPD, another cousin who was on Richard Daley's body guard detail, and an uncle that was a Lieutenant on CPD. And NO, I am not the black sheep of the family.
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Cool. I wasn't going to accuse you of being any of that. But I'm sure you agree that self defense can be a very complicated? defense.
No fun for anyone!
 
Tommy-Chi said:
Heck, the knife NEVER left my hip. I never verbally threatened anyone. All that I wanted was for them to let go of me and to leave, which I did ASAP.

I've moved out of Chicago and I am in Naperville, Illinois. I'll never live in Chicago again.
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That sucks man, but when nobody backs you up and all of their buds support their story... you lose.
 
Tommy-Chi said:
I collect knives. I cannot recommend edged weapon self defense. I recommend staying in the house and out of bars, as far away from anonymous humans as possible.

My career in technical support demands it.
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That's good advise. I don't want to go off topic more than this, but it could be a good conversation for prac tac.
 
Tommy-Chi said:
Let me tell you a little bit abt using knives responsibly.

I was being attacked in a bar for asking if anyone in the bar was a member of the 43rd Street Boys on the South Side of Chicago. Maybe that wasn't such a great idea, but earlier in the day I was verbally threatened with a beat down by the gang for doing nothing more than double parking in front of my own home for 5 minutes.

5 guys started kicking and punching me. Having dabbled in 10 martial arts, 5 of then Filipino Escrima / Arnis I drew my legal folder out of my pocket to MY HIP. I loudly said KNIFE. Wherein they quit beating on me long enough to get out of the bar.

In case you missed it, I was in La La Land CHICAGO. You will never guess who was charged for Ag Assault.

Creeping laws do NOT protect the weak or beat upon, they protect criminals.
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Going by what you just said: You were threatened so then decided to go in to a bar and start something where you were obviously outnumbered. Remember YOU went to a bar and YOU started asking questions. YOU not them, went to a bar and started asking for specific people. You also admitted that you had a bit of a confrontation with said group earlier. So, you went to a bar with a knife in your pocket and started looking for people you were angry at from earlier.

What is the law supposed to think?

It could be argued that the people beating you up were acting in self-defense since you went looking for them with a potential weapon in your pocket. To top things off you drew that weapon and made clear of your intent to use it in a fight you arguably started. Some laws aren't designed to protect the individual, but to keep peace for everyone else.

You let a bunch of punks get you all up in a tizzy, acted without thinking, and nearly shed blood for no reason. This is why many people don't feel comfortable with just anyone carrying knives, guns, pliers, screw drivers, metal spoons, steel toe shoes, random objects, etc.

Responsible knife and gun ownership should always be legal. You weren't responsible that day.
 
Korean Hog said:
Going by what you just said: You were threatened so then decided to go in to a bar and start something where you were obviously outnumbered. Remember YOU went to a bar and YOU started asking questions. YOU not them, went to a bar and started asking for specific people. You also admitted that you had a bit of a confrontation with said group earlier. So, you went to a bar with a knife in your pocket and started looking for people you were angry at from earlier.

What is the law supposed to think?

It could be argued that the people beating you up were acting in self-defense since you went looking for them with a potential weapon in your pocket. To top things off you drew that weapon and made clear of your intent to use it in a fight you arguably started. Some laws aren't designed to protect the individual, but to keep peace for everyone else.

You let a bunch of punks get you all up in a tizzy, acted without thinking, and nearly shed blood for no reason. This is why many people don't feel comfortable with just anyone carrying knives, guns, pliers, screw drivers, metal spoons, steel toe shoes, random objects, etc.

Responsible knife and gun ownership should always be legal. You weren't responsible that day.
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And hence the problems of "self defense"!
 
danbot said:
And hence the problems of "self defense"!
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Forget the legal stuff, don't start stuff, and don't finish things that are already finished. If someone outright jumps on you out of the blue that's one thing. If you go looking for trouble you'll find it.
 
This is my last reply. I've decided to not follow or reply to this thread anymore.

Good luck in defending yourself folks.
 
Tommy-Chi said: ↑
Let me tell you a little bit abt using knives responsibly.

I was being attacked in a bar for asking if anyone in the bar was a member of the 43rd Street Boys on the South Side of Chicago. Maybe that wasn't such a great idea, but earlier in the day I was verbally threatened with a beat down by the gang for doing nothing more than double parking in front of my own home for 5 minutes.

5 guys started kicking and punching me. Having dabbled in 10 martial arts, 5 of then Filipino Escrima / Arnis I drew my legal folder out of my pocket to MY HIP. I loudly said KNIFE. Wherein they quit beating on me long enough to get out of the bar.

In case you missed it, I was in La La Land CHICAGO. You will never guess who was charged for Ag Assault.

Creeping laws do NOT protect the weak or beat upon, they protect criminals.

***copied since the post was deleted***

the problem with this is straight forward and if you have trained extensively then you should know one of the first things instructors ... whether firearms or martial arts with knives or blunt weapons ...

YOU NEVER PULL YOUR WEAPON TO THREATEN ANYONE OR FIRE A WARNING SHOT ... the absolute only time you draw a weapon is when you are going to use it ...

instructors drill it home it's an illegal act of brandishing a weapon and assualt for making a threat by screaming out that you had a weapon ... so if you are going to carry any weapon be sure your mindset is right before you ever strap it on ... or you will rightfully be procescuted for an illegal act ... like it or not ...

I'm all for our right to carry and defend ourselves but we can't cross the lines the criminals do ... if you pull it out it should not be any option but to use it to save your life ... I can't feel sorry for you being charged if you do that you should not carry ... and if all the training mentioned you don't know that ... theres a much bigger issue.
 
I once read an article about knife self defense by a lawyer, I think it was actually about carrying in Chicago maybe? It talked about the difficulty of proving self defense when a weapon is involved. The gist of it was interesting, that when people choose fight over flight their full instinct is to eliminate the threat completely even when the attacker is already retreating. A lot of "self defense" turned into assault with a deadly weapon because the person being attacked drew their weapon and became an attacker themselves.
I think in the end the suggested legal method of self defense with a knife was to run away and if your assailant got close to hold the knife out so as to intimidate, hopefully deterring them enough for you to get away.
 
Korean Hog said:
Forget the legal stuff, don't start stuff, and don't finish things that are already finished. If someone outright jumps on you out of the blue that's one thing. If you go looking for trouble you'll find it.
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Yep! And that's how you get both sides claiming SD.o_O
 
danbot said:
Yep! And that's how you get both sides claiming SD.o_O
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I agree it's a tough issue, but I'm not speaking just in legal terms. My point is more that by acting the way he did, he got the law involved. The whole thing could've been avoided entirely if he just let stupid stuff go. The whole thing could've been avoided if he had better self-defense training. Not just in the physical act of defending, but when it is truly necessary to bring out something more deadly than quick feet and tough knuckles. He went looking for trouble. He disturbed the peace.

Gangsters don't help the peace much either, but facing them in a bar on your own terms is not the way to fight them. That just makes you another punk with a knife causing ruckus in the neighborhood. He was punished because instead of at least trying to deal with his problem in a legal and civilized way he skipped right over to doing the same kind of thing thugs would do. This makes him a bit of thug in his own right and the law dealt with him accordingly.

If you govern your own mind and actions properly the government doesn't have to and just about can't.
 
Korean Hog said:
I agree it's a tough issue, but I'm not speaking just in legal terms. My point is more that by acting the way he did, he got the law involved. The whole thing could've been avoided entirely if he just let stupid stuff go. The whole thing could've been avoided if he had better self-defense training. Not just in the physical act of defending, but when it is truly necessary to bring out something more deadly than quick feet and tough knuckles. He went looking for trouble. He disturbed the peace.

Gangsters don't help the peace much either, but facing them in a bar on your own terms is not the way to fight them. That just makes you another punk with a knife causing ruckus in the neighborhood. He was punished because instead of at least trying to deal with his problem in a legal and civilized way he skipped right over to doing the same kind of thing thugs would do. This makes him a bit of thug in his own right and the law dealt with him accordingly.

If you govern your own mind and actions properly the government doesn't have to and just about can't.
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Very true. If we are reading his posts accurately. Nevertheless, situational awareness and being the bigger man will go a long way in avoiding unnecessary trouble.
 
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