Kansas Knife Ban Bill Introduced

danbot said:
Alhough my idea is not at all original, I don't recall it ever being done here for the benefit of Knife Rights.
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I know knfe manufacturers/makers donate knives to knife rights for auction but I don't know if regular guys do it here. Not a bad idea though to drum up funds to help the cause. I bought his app, and I recommend all of us buy it to support him.
 
I think the real problem with this post is that it misses the actual intent of the bill. A majority of the proposed law is actually just a restatement of Kansas Statute 21-6301. I believe that this is the current version of that statute on the books. I'm not sure if this bill actually makes any changes to current Kansas law other than the section italicized in the text and the sections crossed out. Kansas knife laws, by my analysis, are not being changed in any form by this bill.

Just for clarification, this post should not be interpreted as offering any legal advice or counsel. I know that nobody will take it that way, but I have to make sure—even though I am not an attorney.

And, for the record, I am a strong supporter (although I cannot do so financially) of Knife Rights! :)

To the moderator: Please let me know if this post is not in compliance with any of Blade Forums' own regulations ;)
 
zfJames said:
I think the real problem with this post is that it misses the actual intent of the bill. A majority of the proposed law is actually just a restatement of Kansas Statute 21-6301. I believe that this is the current version of that statute on the books. I'm not sure if this bill actually makes any changes to current Kansas law other than the section italicized in the text and the sections crossed out. Kansas knife laws, by my analysis, are not being changed in any form by this bill.

Just for clarification, this post should not be interpreted as offering any legal advice or counsel. I know that nobody will take it that way, but I have to make sure—even though I am not an attorney.

And, for the record, I am a strong supporter (although I cannot do so financially) of Knife Rights! :)

To the moderator: Please let me know if this post is not in compliance with any of Blade Forums' own regulations ;)
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It really does seem to me that it is likely a sneaky attempt to reintroduce that wording back into the criminal code of the state. If they were really serious about curtailing the criminal use of knives as weapons, then any wording must include "Any common food preparation knife".
 
danbot said:
It really does seem to me that it is likely a sneaky attempt to reintroduce that wording back into the criminal code of the state. If they were really serious about curtailing the criminal use of knives as weapons, then any wording must include "Any common food preparation knife".
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The point that I was making is that the wording used in the bill is literally the exact same as the current wording of the statute. No need for reintroduction if it's already in the books.
 
zfJames said:
The point that I was making is that the wording used in the bill is literally the exact same as the current wording of the statute. No need for reintroduction if it's already in the books.
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Okay, sorry. I guess Mr. Ritter will have to clarify for us what the potential problem is.
 
danbot said:
Okay, sorry. I guess Mr. Ritter will have to clarify for us what the potential problem is.
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No, you're good! I don't think I explained that post enough, so I'm glad you brought it up!

That's exactly what I'm looking for—a little clarification from Mr. Ritter or another legal ninja! ;)
 
I don't live in Kansas nor do I plan to travel there in the near future, but I was looking into this and am a little confused.

In the original post, Doug said they passed a law in 2013 (House Bill 2033) that basically changed Kansas state law 21-6301 to remove references to specific knives.

The current Kansas law that I found here: http://www.ksrevisor.org/statutes/chapters/ch21/021_063_0001.html still has some of the original wording. So the new law being proposed is based on what appears to be the current wording. HB 2033 was apparently passed in 2013. Either that source I found is not the current state of the law, or the wording was later re-instated by some other amendment to the bill.

Critter Critter Doug's issue should not be with this new law that is being passed, but with the existing law which does not match what was done in 2013.

Yep - looks like the wording was re-instated in 2015 under Senate bill 45:

http://www.kslegislature.org/li_2016/b2015_16/measures/documents/sb45_00_0000.pdf

Probably a mistake from whoever wrote that bill using an older version of the 21-6301 statute as a source when writing the new one, and nobody noticing that the old wording was re-introduced.
 
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jc57 said:
I don't live in Kansas nor do I plan to travel there in the near future, but I was looking into this and am a little confused.

In the original post, Doug said they passed a law in 2013 (House Bill 2033) that basically changed Kansas state law 21-6301 to remove references to specific knives.

The current Kansas law that I found here: http://www.ksrevisor.org/statutes/chapters/ch21/021_063_0001.html still has some of the original wording. So the new law being proposed is based on what appears to be the current wording. HB 2033 was apparently passed in 2013. Either that source I found is not the current state of the law, or the wording was later re-instated by some other amendment to the bill.

Critter Critter Doug's issue should not with this new law that is being passed, but with the existing law which does not match what was done in 2013.

Yep - looks like the wording was re-instated in 2015 under Senate bill 45:

http://www.kslegislature.org/li_2016/b2015_16/measures/documents/sb45_00_0000.pdf

Probably a mistake from whoever wrote that bill using an older version of the 21-6301 statute as a source when writing the new one, and nobody noticing that the old wording was re-introduced.
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Thanks for the clarification! I think that may answer my original posts. I have friends in Kansas and they all feel like knife rights are enforced well (for what that's worth).
 
I worked in government for a while in my younger days. While there are certainly sneaky things that go on to get something by under the radar, there is also the normal amount of just normal human incompetence or honest mistakes that occur in large bureaucracies. See Hanlon's Razor: "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanlon's_razor

In computer software, there is a strict set of rules for version control, so that you don't have two developers who are modifying the same set of code, both working from the original source, and both working on different sections. And then whichever modification gets uploaded last, overwrites the modifications that the other developer was working on. That is not always followed, and you sometimes get spectacular failures or bugs as a result.

I would assume that there are similar controls on legal documents, where someone version checks every bill to make sure that any changes to existing laws are intentional. But that is also something that can be the result of honest error.

My approach, which may be misguided, would be to contact the sponsors of that Senate bill 45 from 2015 and ask them if they intentionally backed out the wording of HB 2033 from that one paragraph, or if it was an oversight and not intended. If it was an oversight, then the sponsors of SB 45 would probably be more than happy to support efforts to get the wording reverted to the 2013 version. If it was intentional, then at least you'd know where to start the fight rather than going after this current bill.
 
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Twindog said:
If you want non-knife people to respect our tools/hobbies, treat those people with respect and use your knives responsibly.
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That hasn't saved the thousands of honest blue-collar workers who've been arrested for carrying their tools in NYC while going about their business.
 
Don't ever let them get to use the term "dangerous knife", we have that crap here in Denmark and it's getting abused like crazy by the authorities.

If you go to jail or not when police catch you with a knife depends entirely if they like you or not, it's so easy for them to claim you're carrying a "dangerous knife" not suitable for carry.

Judges are clueless and the "expert" witnesses that they bring to court are all paid police shills.
 
DocJD said:
Beware snakes in the grass . Or wake up one day to find all of those hard won freedoms are gone ! :mad:

I hate to even imagine what kind of knife remains once you remove the "dangerous " parts ? o_O
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If it was left up to some politicians, we would be fortunate to have the right to carry or even own a manual folding butter knife. Even then they would slap a fine on us if it happened to be sharp enough to scratch someone.
 
NorseVet said:
Don't ever let them get to use the term "dangerous knife", we have that crap here in Denmark and it's getting abused like crazy by the authorities.

If you go to jail or not when police catch you with a knife depends entirely if they like you or not, it's so easy for them to claim you're carrying a "dangerous knife" not suitable for carry.

Judges are clueless and the "expert" witnesses that they bring to court are all paid police shills.
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Exactly what we need to prevent. I wish you guys had a knife rights too.
 
NorseVet said:
Don't ever let them get to use the term "dangerous knife", we have that crap here in Denmark and it's getting abused like crazy by the authorities.

If you go to jail or not when police catch you with a knife depends entirely if they like you or not, it's so easy for them to claim you're carrying a "dangerous knife" not suitable for carry.

Judges are clueless and the "expert" witnesses that they bring to court are all paid police shills.
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Do you feel safer with the laws in place? Have they prevented assaults and murders with "dangerous knives"?
 
danbot said:
Do you feel safer with the laws in place? Have they prevented assaults and murders with "dangerous knives"?
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Are you kidding me? Of course not. Knife crime is at all time highs here. Dangerous criminals tend to not care about the law.

What type of knives used in crimes I don't know, I don't think our police publish that data.

Luckily I live in the rurals so the chances of me getting shaked down by police is pretty much 0%. I feel bad for people living in cities having to deal with that crap though.
 
NorseVet said:
Are you kidding me? Of course not. Knife crime is at all time highs here. Dangerous criminals tend to not care about the law.

Luckily I live in the rurals so the chances of me getting shaked down by police is pretty much 0%. I feel bad for people living in cities having to deal with that crap though.
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Wow. I know many of the EU countries are in a similar situation. Crazy how some people actually want to be disarmed as if it makes them safer:rolleyes:
 
NorseVet said:
Are you kidding me? Of course not. Knife crime is at all time highs here. Dangerous criminals tend to not care about the law.

What type of knives used in crimes I don't know, I don't think our police publish that data.

Luckily I live in the rurals so the chances of me getting shaked down by police is pretty much 0%. I feel bad for people living in cities having to deal with that crap though.
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Are your politicians guarded by men with firearms and knives?
 
NorseVet said:
Are you kidding me? Of course not. Knife crime is at all time highs here. Dangerous criminals tend to not care about the law.

What type of knives used in crimes I don't know, I don't think our police publish that data.

Luckily I live in the rurals so the chances of me getting shaked down by police is pretty much 0%. I feel bad for people living in cities having to deal with that crap though.
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Yes, I was kidding you!;)
It would be real funny if it wasn't peoples lives getting turned upside down at the whim of some cop over something your grandfather would've carried and used almost everyday without a second thought!:thumbsdown:
 
shinyedges said:
Are your politicians guarded by men with firearms and knives?
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Your average politician no, ministers do though.
Denmark is generally a peaceful place to live though, I imagine all of them would've if there was a higher risk.
 
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