Kershaw vs. Zero tolerance

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celtic11 said:
What's the point of owning an AR-15? Can it just be because I like it?
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Absolutely. Buy what makes you happy. We only have one life. You're not hurting me at all by liking certain things that I don't understand, just like I'm not hurting you by liking other things. Being able to talk about it is what civilized people do.
 
SunOfAtom said:
Or "What's the point of any pistol larger than a .38? Just use a shotgun." Philosophical discussions are great and all, but this was a thread asking opinions between Kershaw and ZT.
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Me, I'd go with precise, portable, and reliable to carry everyday and everywhere coupled with big and reliable that I can carry most places. I wouldn't carry a pocket shotgun that had many reports of jamming up. If you want to carry the equivalent of a pocket shotgun that is not proven to be reliable when it matters, then more power to you. To each his own.

Having said that, considering everything, I like kershaw better than ZT, considering the designs, reliability, marketing, and pricing of both. That's the pragmatist in me. The knife nut in me who says damn all that, give me carbon fiber and high grade steel and titanium wants ZT. Just one man's opinion.
 
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bodog said:
Overbuilt and strong is a good thing. Overbuilt and not reliably strong doesn't make sense to me. If it does for you, then more power to you. Everyone has their likes and dislikes.
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Again with the vague generalizations. What does "overbuilt and not reliably strong" mean? You are saying that somehow ZT locks are not reliable, but all others are? All my ZT locks have been reliable. So have the locks from all my other manufacturers. All locks will fail at some ridiculous level of force. Somehow this is a ZT issue?
 
At the end of the day, KAI USA is my favorite manufacturer and my Kershaws and ZTs have more than proven themselves over the years.
 
Kershaw=toyota, ZT=lexus
In the end decided I wanted something lighter with a thinner blade than the 0550. But looks pretty strong...

[video=youtube;AW0TVkcBFkw]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AW0TVkcBFkw[/video]
 
SunOfAtom said:
Again with the vague generalizations. What does "overbuilt and not reliably strong" mean? You are saying that somehow ZT locks are not reliable, but all others are? All my ZT locks have been reliable. So have the locks from all my other manufacturers. All locks will fail at some ridiculous level of force. Somehow this is a ZT issue?
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And here we are again, people who enjoy ZT berating people who don't. Jesus man, don't take it personally. I stated why I wont buy them several times without insulting you or saying your arguments are stupid or anything else. I stated my personal experience and what I need and how it relates to the discussion. Are you offended that I have different needs than you? Are you trying to be offensive? Other people questioned me and my reasons without belittling or berating or otherwise acting like an obtuse child who can't understand a legitimate position other than their own and I answered just as respectfully.
 
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None of you should be disrespecting the forum and it's members with indirect, direct insults, allegory or other such childish antics.
Discussion of the topic proper is encouraged. Discussion of each other is not.
 
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bodog said:
And here we are again, people who enjoy ZT berating people who don't. Jesus man, don't take it personally. I stated why I wont buy them several times without insulting you or saying your arguments are stupid or anything else. I stated my personal experience and what I need and how it relates to the discussion. Are you offended that I have different needs than you? Are you trying to be offensive? Other people questioned me and my reasons without belittling or berating or otherwise acting like an obtuse child who can't understand a legitimate position other than their own and I answered just as respectfully.
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I could not care less if you like ZT or not. I just don't understand why you are fabricating issues to "justify" your dislike. When I ask you to clarify your broad claims, you change the question. Hence my earlier assessment that you are simply arguing for the sake of arguing.
 
SunOfAtom said:
I could not care less if you like ZT or not. I just don't understand why you are fabricating issues to "justify" your dislike. When I ask you to clarify your broad claims, you change the question. Hence my earlier assessment that you are simply arguing for the sake of arguing.
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Strong, thick blades plus locks that have been produced that have been proven to be at least unreliable equals a knife that doesn't make sense to me. Thinner blades with unreliable locks make more sense, thicker blades with no locks make sense.

And now you're calling me a liar because my experience is different than yours. Class act man, and against what Karda JUST warned about.
 
I would suggest that if you have an issue with your lock to send it to ZT for warranty repair. I and many many other people have had absolutely no problems with our locks. This makes your claims completely inaccurate based on our experiences.
 
craytab said:
I would suggest that if you have an issue with your lock to send it to ZT for warranty repair. I and many many other people have had absolutely no problems with our locks. This makes your claims completely inaccurate based on our experiences.
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5 knives is pretty excessive. How many should I have to send in to get one done right?
 
I have used my ZT's both in law enforcement and now currently in farm applications and they all have been totally reliable. 0550, 0561, 0566, 0200, and now 0562. The ZT's are certainly built tougher than the Kershaw's although I did carry a folding lock back Kershaw for many years which served me well. On SWAT I would always carry a fixed blade in addition to a folder. I worked in a busy state police station and most of the cutting involved slicing pizzas, cutting threads off my uniform and opening mail. However I always had a blade on me for that unexpected emergency. An array of tools were available in the trunk of my patrol car for breaking windows, prying, hammering, bolt lock cutting, seat belt slicers etc.

I carry a Kershaw Leek, Hinderer XM 18 and/or a ZT 0566, they take care of most farm cutting issues. The heavier thicker blades are used for cutting PEX water lines, occasionally cleaning a stone out of a hoof of either a cow or a horse and cutting bound up hay around the shafts of hay cutting equipment. The Leek works great for those big white plastic wrapped round hay bales where a thin slicer gets the job done quicker with less drag. Also the Kershaw Leek works great for slicing apples and pears from our orchard.

So I think it depends on what your needs are and that should point you in the direction of which brand to purchase.
 
bodog said:
5 knives is pretty excessive. How many should I have to send in to get one done right?
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I don't know. Perhaps you just have bad luck. But to tell all of us that our knives are proven unreliable doesn't really make sense. Whether your knives were bad I don't know, I have no reason to believe you would be untruthful. What I do know is of the 7 ZTs I have had and the 5 I still currently have and use, not a single one has a proven unreliable lock. And you don't know if my knives have unreliable locks. It would make sense for you to stop saying that. Blanket statements that you can't prove should be avoided.
 
bodog said:
Out of the 5 or 6 ZT's I've owned, not one had a lock bar that made full contact with the lock face, the grinds of the bar or face were uneven. Lock ups were sometimes too early and the ones that had a late lockup had the least amount of bar touching the face. That does not inspire confidence that the lock will withstand abuse should the knife be used in a situation where full faith in the tool is needed.
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Which model numbers were the 5 or 6?
When did you buy these?
Were they brand new from a ZT dealer or a user?
 
celtic11 said:
You said you've never had a ZT lock fail.. why are you sending them in?
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Two brand new direct from ZT, three used, and one brand new from a reputable dealer. I don't remember the serials. The two direct from ZT were both limited editions. I had one blade crack on a used, like new LE which ZT fixed by sending another knife which was pretty bad and there are pics of it in the GBU folder from earlier this year. They sent yet another one to make up for that and that was a damned nice knife, but not for my use.

One was used, like new, production model which I still carry sometimes. Another new from a dealer is good which my wife carries.

I sent in two separate knives out of the six. Sold two. Kept two. None of the LEs I kept for whatever reason came up with them. Two failed due to straight up bad manufacturing defects, terrible locks, terrible grinds, or cracked blades or a combination thereof. One wasn't terrible and I sold it off with disclaimers for a steep discount. One was extremely nice but not for duty use. One is adequate but not to be trusted in rough use because only maybe 1/6 of an inch if the lock bar touches the lock face, which I still own. And one is pretty good with no complaints, but my wife carries it and doesn't do any kind of hard work with it.
 
bodog said:
Two brand new direct from ZT, three used, and one brand new from a reputable dealer. I don't remember the serials. The two direct from ZT were both limited editions. I had one blade crack on a used, like new LE which ZT fixed by sending another knife which was pretty bad and there are pics of it in the GBU folder from earlier this year. They sent yet another one to make up for that and that was a damned nice knife, but not for my use.

One was used, like new, production model which I still carry sometimes. Another new from a dealer is good which my wife carries.

I sent in two separate knives out of the six. Sold two. Kept two. None of the LEs I kept for whatever reason came up with them. Two failed due to straight up bad manufacturing defects, terrible locks, terrible grinds, or cracked blades or a combination thereof. One wasn't terrible and I sold it off with disclaimers for a steep discount. One was extremely nice but not for duty use. One is adequate but not to be trusted in rough use because only maybe 1/6 of an inch if the lock bar touches the lock face, which I still own. And one is pretty good with no complaints, but my wife carries it and doesn't do any kind of hard work with it.
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Which model numbers specifically?

Also, which LE?
 
KAI asked me to not name specifics about one of them. The others are three 0560cbcf, an 0561, and an 0566BW. Truth be told, the lowest priced knife on that list was probably done the best for daily use as far as workmanship and durability is concerned. I just can't get ahold of it long enough to test it...
 
So, how many did you return? 4 or 5? And was it all due to the lock bar? And you still kept some? So I guess the proven unreliable design as it relates to the lock-up might not be as much of an issue as you originally stated.
 
craytab said:
So, how many did you return? 4 or 5? And was it all due to the lock bar? And you still kept some? So I guess the proven unreliable design as it relates to the lock-up might not be as much of an issue as you originally stated.
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Again, obtuse. One was great but I sold it because it just wasn't for me, truth be told I regret that sale. One is good and my wife carries it but I can't test it without my wife flipping out. One is kind of acceptable, I kept it simply because I don't want to lose even more money by selling it so yeah, I kept it. I just can't trust it because of the half assed grind on the lock, i still like the steel, flipper, and ergos. One was sold at a big discount because of a weak detent and the same lock issues. Two were sent in and kept by KAI because they were failures, one of those, again, terrible lock grinds. Go look in the GBU thread if you want to see pics because you don't believe me. I started that thread so it shouldn't be hard to find. Should I really need to go through 6 knives from the same company to find two that unequivocally pass inspection?
 
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