You know i would say that you have a point. But then that would me ignoring the fact that this argument only applies to knives being made in china. My guess is because its an easy target. But when someone brings up the microtech matrix, or the fact that the knife it copied actually had very striking similarities to another makers entire body of work everyone shuts up and you can hear a pin drop. If it really was about justice, morals or ethics people should be waving that flag in all cases whether its americans ripping off other americans, russians ripping off americans or americans ripping off the russians. I can think of at least ten knives this thread could be about that infringe on just as much I.P. Yet it would be nothing but high fives if this thread was about one of them instead of the kevin john. And if someone dared to mention it being a rip off the thread would be tossed to the dogs in whine and cheese. Its hard to make a case claiming to believe in something when it would seem some are immune to the same criticism. I know people get sick of me saying it and frankly so am I. But i will keep saying it until ALL makers are held accountable for their actions and not just the ones we choose to single out. Because if it is really about the ip theft and all the issues that go along with it it exists outside the scope of just china and its makers.
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You know i would say that you have a point. But then that would me ignoring the fact that this argument only applies to knives being made in china. My guess is because its an easy target. But when someone brings up the microtech matrix, or the fact that the knife it copied actually had very striking similarities to another makers entire body of work everyone shuts up and you can hear a pin drop. If it really was about justice, morals or ethics people should be waving that flag in all cases whether its americans ripping off other americans, russians ripping off americans or americans ripping off the russians. I can think of at least ten knives this thread could be about that infringe on just as much I.P. Yet it would be nothing but high fives if this thread was about one of them instead of the kevin john. And if someone dared to mention it being a rip off the thread would be tossed to the dogs in whine and cheese. Its hard to make a case claiming to believe in something when it would seem some are immune to the same criticism. I know people get sick of me saying it and frankly so am I. But i will keep saying it until ALL makers are held accountable for their actions and not just the ones we choose to single out. Because if it is really about the ip theft and all the issues that go along with it it exists outside the scope of just china and its makers.
What repercussions do you want?
There was disapproval voiced.
About the Chinese clones there is disapproval voiced.
It's not like we can send in the Bladeforums Special Forces to shut down Kevin John, Microtech, or anyone else.
We're just a bunch of people on an internet forum yakking about knives.
Voicing disapproval and voting with our wallets is the only recourse any of us have.
I have to agree with this. As far as I know, the only IP that this maker stole in the creation of this particular knife is the Hinderer LBS (IMO a questionable patent in the first place...CRK did not patent the integral lock, which I believe to be more worthy of a patent than the LBS but that's another discussion altogether). I hate counterfeits as much as the next guy, but a copy that makes no attempt at fooling customers that they are buying the real deal is not illegal as long as it does not infringe on trademarks and patents. It's not counterfeit. It's a copy. Like generic ibuprofen. No laws against that.
I'm aware that KJ used to counterfeit knives but as far as I know they are removing the branding that made these knives counterfeit and instead making copies. Generic copies, save for, in this instance, a questionably patented component.
What KJ is doing is one could perhaps argue, of questionable integrity and morality, to a certain extent, but it could be argued that the men behind a lot of knife companies also have questionable moral and integrity *caugh*Strider*caugh. I don't see anywhere as much hostility towards these companies as Chinese companies. PURPLEDC is right, the Chinese are an easy target and this is no exception. It's too bad really because this knife looks better built than a lot of products coming out of the good ol' US of A. I've seen a quote floating around here, if you want a good Strider, make sure you buy it from Kevin John! lol
By the way, I'm a huge CRK fan (have owned and own many) and do believe that some of the best knives come from American makers. But it does seem as though people are quick to judge the chinese and forgive americans. I believe in giving credit where it's due and while this design is not original, the execution looks quite good (almost flawless), specially given the price, and it wouln't be the first time that a company copied a product offered by another.
I figured this thread would go the way of ignorance and situational justification peppered with just the right amount of Craphouse Lawyer interpretations of what's legal and who's farts smell better.
I see disappointment in expectation was avoided.
As for my comments, noteable is, I never specified who's item created and copied constituted dirtbag behavior because I believe ANYBODY who COPIES ANYONES ideas or creations without permission and remuneration to the originator - IS a Dirtbag.
Period.
I don't care if you are Chinese or just eat Chinese Food or your Humpty Friggin' Dumpty.
I don't care if its the "Pee while you drive funnel bottle" a Knife or a Cookie...... You Copy it - You're a Dirtbag and if you Buy it or laud it you ain't far behind but hey Guys for those of you who don't see a Big problem with this ....... Knock yourselves out.
No I meant that literally - Knock yourselves Out - Please.
I see disappointment in expectation was avoided.
As for my comments, noteable is, I never specified who's item created and copied constituted dirtbag behavior because I believe ANYBODY who COPIES ANYONES ideas or creations without permission and remuneration to the originator - IS a Dirtbag.
Period.
I don't care if you are Chinese or just eat Chinese Food or your Humpty Friggin' Dumpty.
I don't care if its the "Pee while you drive funnel bottle" a Knife or a Cookie...... You Copy it - You're a Dirtbag and if you Buy it or laud it you ain't far behind but hey Guys for those of you who don't see a Big problem with this ....... Knock yourselves out.
No I meant that literally - Knock yourselves Out - Please.
Well then unless Hinderer (and every maker of Titanium frame locks for that matter) is paying and got CRK explicit permission to use the titanium frame lock design, by your logic, they're dirtbags and their knives should not be reviewed or discussed in this community.
Really? You want to start debating Logic flow as a distraction to the core principle here and you expect me to fall for that weak position tactic?
Distraction and misdirection? Wow.
So, Tire manufacturors who "went with" rubber and the "round shape" would be in violation? Ok if your analogy worked for you then good for you.
Anyway, this thread will just devolve from here so have fun.
If you really care about ethics and the Hobby - come visit the RHK forum.
IF you crave drama and are of questionable motivations - Trust me..... don't bother - Not welcome.
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I don't like "Kevin John" making money off someone else's designs. Reate makes their own designs, why can't Kevin John?
I thought that was what I posted when I said I don't generally agree with copying designs...
That said it happens a lot in the industry as we all know and depending on what Country it's made in there isn't a lot you or anyone else can really do about it in the end.
You can cry and moan all day long and it won't solve anything or change it either unless you have some serious deep pockets and can afford Powerful International Lawyers and afford to buy people off in Governments and their legal systems etc. But then only the Mega Corporations have that kind of power and money to make some sort of dent.
Yes I believe people do get it...
The issue is that we can't do anything about it, nor can you in the end unless the maker was here in the US and they aren't so....
Now if you want to really get me started on things I could go on about RHK policies and how that seems to work being that I am a Veteran, but that didn't matter (I gave them one chance and that's was it), but somehow others seem to get them, that's certain ones (The same ones all the time it seems) and jack up the prices two or three times over what RHK says they are worth. I am not the only veteran that feels this way either by the way. But that's OK though since I have basically given up on ever getting one because I won't bother to pay scalpers pricing just to test one knife and I don't buy knives anymore anyway, I get them in to test. I did have a few here and am glad that I didn't actually buy one because they aren't my thing, but that's personal opinion not a ding on the knives at all.
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If you were to take apart a reate and then take apart any of the numerous replica knives made by the company that goes by the name "a dai" you might sing a different tune. What we are seeing these days are counterfeit companies who now want a piece of the US market and they are making sibling companies for their legitimate wares to he sold in the states. ESP guitars is a HUGE corporation that follows the same business model. Most of their guitars sold in other countries are copies of popular models made in the USA. Those models are not sold in the USA. But they make up a good portion of their sales. And just like kevin john, wild boar and a dai knives they claim they are not intended for sale in the USA and its simply a matter of determined individuals seeking ways to import the items since no dealer network for such items exists here in the states. Every kevin john knife in the usa was imported by an american. Its not some chinese guy shipping them to a secret ninja society hell bent on taking over the knife industry. Believe it or not, people should be just as mad at other americans as they should the chinese. In fact I cant really blame the chinese for simply manufacturing something that we created the market for. If people wouldnt buy it they wouldnt make it.
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Your "views" of RHK are fairly familiar to me which only serves to further discount what I see you write...... I peruse until I see it surface and then (gladly) I ignore that which follows. Consistencey is a good thing sometimes, other times it is just a good way to alert the passer-by not to waste their time.
As a fellow Veteran - Thank you for your Service and respectfully will leave it at that.
As a fellow Veteran - Thank you for your Service and respectfully will leave it at that.
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I don't need to take apart a reate to know it's not a ripoff of someone else's, they are original designs by District 9 and David Deng. The difference is Kevin John and Wild Boar are deliberately making knives that look exactly like Hinderers, Striders, and CRK knives and slapping their brand names on them. I have a problem with that. The people who buy these knives are as bad as the people who make them.
All we can really do is not buy them in the end, personally I don't and never would buy one of any copy etc.
The sad fact is that they do sell and there are plenty of people out there that will and do buy them, that's just the way things tend to be in today's society.
Thanks.
But I was and never will be stupid enough to overpay that kind of price for something.
The whole attitude was really OK thanks for your service, but hey if you want one of our knives you will have to pay scalpers prices for it, kinda just sticks in my gut you know.
Ah..... No thanks, I will pass.
By hey that's their policy and they can run things however they want, they just won't ever see a penny from me.
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