Kevin John - Triumph precision XM18, small 3 inches, spanto MANY PHOTOS

[Buffalohump]

Can't afford a $500 knife? So go buy a knife for $50 that isn't a total rip-off of someone else's work. There are hundreds of choices out there. Piracy is thievery - pure and simple!

Considering that it's not a total counterfeit, I don't see why the review shouldn't stand. You may not like it, but it's not an illegal knife or a knife produced with the intention to deceive buyers. Distasteful? Yeah. Illegal? No.

Not everyone has the money to drop on a 500 dollar knife. At least the manufacturer clearly engraved the knife to show its not a hinderer and that's it's only saving grace. That's a step in the right direction for the chinese.

 

[Buffalohump]

The Chinese are notorious for stealing designs for good reason, because they're usually the ones doing it!

You know i would say that you have a point. But then that would me ignoring the fact that this argument only applies to knives being made in china. My guess is because its an easy target. But when someone brings up the microtech matrix, or the fact that the knife it copied actually had very striking similarities to another makers entire body of work everyone shuts up and you can hear a pin drop. If it really was about justice, morals or ethics people should be waving that flag in all cases whether its americans ripping off other americans, russians ripping off americans or americans ripping off the russians. I can think of at least ten knives this thread could be about that infringe on just as much I.P. Yet it would be nothing but high fives if this thread was about one of them instead of the kevin john. And if someone dared to mention it being a rip off the thread would be tossed to the dogs in whine and cheese. Its hard to make a case claiming to believe in something when it would seem some are immune to the same criticism. I know people get sick of me saying it and frankly so am I. But i will keep saying it until ALL makers are held accountable for their actions and not just the ones we choose to single out. Because if it is really about the ip theft and all the issues that go along with it it exists outside the scope of just china and its makers.

 

[PURPLEDC]

The Chinese are notorious for stealing designs for good reason, because they're usually the ones doing it!

Yeah, thanks captain obvious. I am pretty sure everyone knows that. My point was that people ONLY seem to care when they do it.

 

[bodog]

Yeah, thanks captain obvious. I am pretty sure everyone knows that. My point was that people ONLY seem to care when they do it.

Yep. Say that certain knife companies that seem to get rave reviews here have ripped off innovators and people ignore it. Say that a relatively unknown chinese company does and people go crazy. What's it take, for someone to show how a patent was filed on someone else's idea who put it out for public use? If that's the case, people can look up patent information pretty easily. A certain Japanese company who has a way of marketing itself as a US knife company has multiple patents on designs or very slightly tweaked designs created by someone else completely unrelated to this company and those other unaffiliated designers don't see a dime from this Japanese company. I don't hear one person going apeshit over it. But good God, let a company copy a design who's patent expired or never was filed to begin with and the crowd goes wild.

I'd love to hear if these people have ever taken a generic tylenol. I wonder, if they have medical issues and their insurance only covers generic brands, do these naysayers pay for the original brand, however overpriced it may be?

There's a fine line between doing what's "necessary" to compete in the world and doing what's obviously wrong. When a company makes a product and markets and brands it as something it's not, that's obviously wrong. Everything else is a gray area. When a person with limited funds purchases a product that legally uses "ingredients" and they've marketed itself as a cheaper copy of the original, well, did they do wrong? Not really. It seems many of the rock throwers here should be stoning themselves because everyday they use products that are rip offs of someone else's design, whether it's their car, their tv, their phone, or their computer or the medicine they give their kids.

 

[Ankerson]

Yep. Say that certain knife companies that seem to get rave reviews here have ripped off innovators and people ignore it. Say that a relatively unknown chinese company does and people go crazy. What's it take, for someone to show how a patent was filed on someone else's idea who put it out for public use? If that's the case, people can look up patent information pretty easily. A certain Japanese company who has a way of marketing itself as a US knife company has multiple patents on designs or very slightly tweaked designs created by someone else completely unrelated to this company and those other unaffiliated designers don't see a dime from this Japanese company. I don't hear one person going apeshit over it. But good God, let a company copy a design who's patent expired or never was filed to begin with and the crowd goes wild.

I'd love to hear if these people have ever taken a generic tylenol. I wonder, if they have medical issues and their insurance only covers generic brands, do these naysayers pay for the original brand, however overpriced it may be?

There's a fine line between doing what's "necessary" to compete in the world and doing what's obviously wrong. When a company makes a product and markets and brands it as something it's not, that's obviously wrong. Everything else is a gray area. When a person with limited funds purchases a product that legally uses "ingredients" and they've marketed itself as a cheaper copy of the original, well, did they do wrong? Not really. It seems many of the rock throwers here should be stoning themselves because everyday they use products that are rip offs of someone else's design, whether it's their car, their tv, their phone, or their computer or the medicine they give their kids.

The fine line crossing is usually decided in the Court system, not on an internet forum or anyone's opinions and that is really the bottom line.

If a Company etc doesn't like what another has done that's what they have Lawyers for, things aren't real until the Lawyers get involved, then it's real and they take notice.

Threads that turn into things like this are always amusing to me in how people can get carried away over something that has nothing to do with them personally.

Personally I don't like to see it happen to anyone, but that's as far as my caring really goes because it's none of my business in the end.

The way I look at things is this:

• Are they paying me?
• Am I benifiting money wise?
• Do I work for them?

If the answer is no to all of them then I just don't care because I am just not involved at all and caring just doesn't benefit me at all.

I look at celebrities the same way, if they aren't greasing my palm with money or doing something for me personally I couldn't care less about them one way or another.

So unless I am tied in with a Company somehow..... And I am one way other another with some of them because of what I do, that's just the way things work out.

I am the Customer and THEY being the Company makes money off of me, not the other way around.

 

[flipe8]

I don't have any use for copies/homages/counterfeits or whatever you want to call them. That being said,someone made mention of how certain makers have dealings with other companies that have made some questionable knives very closely resembling competitor's designs. This is something I've noticed on at least one occasion leaving me with mixed feelings. It seems odd to me a maker would be willing to have dealings with another company with the knowledge that company has arguably crossed the line. I guess what I'm getting at is if you don't want anyone making money off your design(s), shouldn't you be just as ticked when it happens to someone else? Wouldn't you make the point of not doing business with a company that has done to someone else what you don't want done to you?

Apologies for the muddy post, but the words didn't flow out like the thoughts.

 

[Ankerson]

I don't have any use for copies/homages/counterfeits or whatever you want to call them. That being said,someone made mention of how certain makers have dealings with other companies that have made some questionable knives very closely resembling competitor's designs. This is something I've noticed on at least one occasion leaving me with mixed feelings. It seems odd to me a maker would be willing to have dealings with another company with the knowledge that company has arguably crossed the line. I guess what I'm getting at is if you don't want anyone making money off your design(s), shouldn't you be just as ticked when it happens to someone else? Wouldn't you make the point of not doing business with a company that has done to someone else what you don't want done to you?

Apologies for the muddy post, but the words didn't flow out like the thoughts.

Personally I don't have any use for them either so I don't buy them.

Not liking to see it happen to anyone is the extent of my caring, I don't get ticked or emotional etc over it because it's just none of my business and I can't do anything about it.

I stopped getting emotional over things I can't do anything about a very long time ago.

 

[flipe8]

Yeah, I believe the most any of us can reasonably do is not support these companies by not being customers.

 

[Ankerson]

Yeah, I believe the most any of us can reasonably do is not support these companies by not being customers.

True, that's all we can really can do in the end.

Getting all worked up doesn't do anyone any good.

 

[Leftytwogunz]

you couldn't give that knock off to me, I sure as hell wouldn't pay for it. Supporting counterfeiters hurts the hobby.

 

[PURPLEDC]

you couldn't give that knock off to me, I sure as hell wouldn't pay for it. Supporting counterfeiters hurts the hobby.

So does someone embellishing their military service record for the sake of selling more knives. Or when they take an existing idea and make it an oval instead of a circle to skirt trademark infringement.

To be honest i get more offended with the people on this forum who dont really care about anything but flipping knives for profit and pretend they are doing people a favor. There are a lot of things that hurt this hobby. I might actually give a crap if people werent all ready simply pocking and choosing which issues they will care about.

 

[stabman]

Go to a watch forum.
Post up a review of your awesome Rolex knockoff you got for $50.
Then be surprised when you don't get a positive response...

Same thing.

If you want positive responses to cheap knockoff knives, go hang out at the smoking section of the local high school.
Then you can get all the "Cool Bro!!" comments you can handle.

 

[PURPLEDC]

Go to a watch forum.
Post up a review of your awesome Rolex knockoff you got for $50.
Then be surprised when you don't get a positive response...

Same thing.

If you want positive responses to cheap knockoff knives, go hang out at the smoking section of the local high school.
Then you can get all the "Cool Bro!!" comments you can handle.

It depands on the watch forum. Watchlords will crucify you. Watchuseek was actually pretty tolerant of homages up until a couple years ago. But if we are going to compare watches to knives i would equate the knife in this thread to an invicta or a Jacques lemans. Those two brands and nearly all other commercial watch brands under the $2000 mark rip off the costly watch brands. And that is what we have here. Its a knife that while it may look loke a hinderer doesnt actually say hinderer nor does it use any other markings that hinderer uses. Its exactly what invicta does. So yeah this knife might not survive watchlords but it would be praised and put on a pedestal on watch geeks.

 

[stabman]

It depands on the watch forum. Watchlords will crucify you. Watchuseek was actually pretty tolerant of homages up until a couple years ago. But if we are going to compare watches to knives i would equate the knife in this thread to an invicta or a Jacques lemans. Those two brands and nearly all other commercial watch brands under the $2000 mark rip off the costly watch brands. And that is what we have here. Its a knife that while it may look loke a hinderer doesnt actually say hinderer nor does it use any other markings that hinderer uses. Its exactly what invicta does. So yeah this knife might not survive watchlords but it would be praised and put on a pedestal on watch geeks.

Then I guess people could search out a knife forum more accepting of knockoffs...or start their own.
Or just talk about the knockoff knives on a watch forum; they probably wouldn't care.

 

[PURPLEDC]

Then I guess people could search out a knife forum more accepting of knockoffs...or start their own.
Or just talk about the knockoff knives on a watch forum; they probably wouldn't care.

Yeah, but i guess people could also simply avoid the content they dont care for or dont agree with and simply let the moderators handle it if they feel it violates the rules. But I realize that asking anyone to simply ignore the threads they dont like is ridiculous. And the way I see it some are so quick to complain these days i get a true sense that they enjoy that ability. I wouldnt dare rob everyone of their source of entertainment. With cable prices being what they are and all.

 

[stabman]

Yeah, but i guess people could also simply avoid the content they dont care for or dont agree with and simply let the moderators handle it if they feel it violates the rules. But I realize that asking anyone to simply ignore the threads they dont like is ridiculous. And the way I see it some are so quick to complain these days i get a true sense that they enjoy that ability. I wouldnt dare rob everyone of their source of entertainment. With cable prices being what they are and all.

It's a discussion forum.
If I see something I want to comment on, I will.

If people avoided making comments, the entire nature of a discussion board would fail.
There would be no forum.

Or just a bunch of threads like:
"Yep!"
"Cool!"
"Me too!"
"I agree!"

Boring.

 

[bld522]

Very interesting. As it turns out, I have essentially the exact same knife as the OP. Only difference is that my KJ has a blade with a slicer grind. It's my one and only homage (notice I didn't say counterfeit as neither mine nor the OP's have Hinderer trademarks on them). I bought mine for a couple of reasons:

I wanted to be able to speak intelligently to the quality of the knife, not its ethics . . . something very few people can do around here without lying. With respect to the quality of the product, my experience mirrors that of the OP. It's a very well made knife . . . certainly as well made as anything else I've seen currently coming out of China, including Kizers.

In my own small, demure way, I wanted to send a message to the good folks at Hinderer that I'm not a second class citizen. My taxes pay the wages of the people they're willing to sell direct to, but they won't sell direct to me and I won't pay more for their product than they say it's worth. Having said that, I acknowledge that Rick made an arrangement with ZT to produce knives for us ordinary taxpayers. I'd actually be willing to buy one and walk away quietly were it not for one slight problem. ZT doesn't make the knife I want. That's why I bought the KJ in the first place. I want a 3.0" version of the 0562CF. I've already said that if ZT ever makes that knife, I'll buy it and drop my KJ off the end of a pier. I meant it then and I mean it now. And if ZT never makes it, no worries. You'll never hear a whimper out of me.

I don't plan to ever sell my KJ nor do I intend to show it to anyone other than a few Hinderer owners who have already seen it. As far as their reaction was concerned, it's a good thing my KJ didn't have Hinderer trademarks on it or by their own admission, they wouldn't have been able to tell the difference between it and a real 3.0" XM-18. Its ultimate fate rests in the hands of Hinderer and ZT.

 

[PURPLEDC]

Or just a bunch of threads like:
"Yep!"
"Cool!"
"Me too!"
"I agree!"

Boring.

While me and you obviously dont agree in regards to the subject of this thread, I completely agree that I would not want this place to turn into the "only praise" forum. The sad thing is it would seem many would love for this to be a high fives only arena.

Very interesting. As it turns out, I have essentially the exact same knife as the OP. Only difference is that my KJ has a blade with a slicer grind. It's my one and only homage (notice I didn't say counterfeit as neither mine nor the OP's have Hinderer trademarks on them). I bought mine for a couple of reasons:

I wanted to be able to speak intelligently to the quality of the knife, not its ethics . . . something very few people can do around here without lying. With respect to the quality of the product, my experience mirrors that of the OP. It's a very well made knife . . . certainly as well made as anything else currently coming out of China, including Kizers.

In my own small, demure way, I wanted to send a message to the good folks at Hinderer that I'm not a second class citizen. My taxes pay the wages of the people they're willing to sell direct to, but they won't sell direct to me and I won't pay more for their product than they say it's worth. Having said that, I acknowledge that Rick made an arrangement with ZT to produce knives for us ordinary taxpayers. I'd actually be willing to buy one and walk away quietly were it not for one slight problem. ZT doesn't make the knife I want. I want a 3.0" version of the 0562CF. I've already said that if ZT ever makes it, I'll buy it and drop my KJ off the end of a pier. I meant it then and I mean it now. And if ZT never makes it, no worries. You'll never a whimper out of me.

I don't plan to ever sell my KJ nor do I intend to show it to anyone other than a few Hinderer owners who have already seen it. As far as their reaction was concerned, it's a good thing my KJ didn't have Hinderer trademarks on it or by their own admission, they wouldn't have been able to tell the difference between it and a real 3.0" XM-18. Its ultimate fate rests in the hands of Hinderer and ZT.

Wow. That was the most selfish post I have read besides my own. I gotta say man, you are kinda stealing my self centered thunder here, lol.

 

[bodog]

So does someone embellishing their military service record for the sake of selling more knives. Or when they take an existing idea and make it an oval instead of a circle to skirt trademark infringement.

To be honest i get more offended with the people on this forum who dont really care about anything but flipping knives for profit and pretend they are doing people a favor. There are a lot of things that hurt this hobby. I might actually give a crap if people werent all ready simply pocking and choosing which issues they will care about.

Absolutely agree. Knife flippers piss me off more than companies legally copying designs with some level of quality. I don't really agree with either but if I had to choose one to favor over the other, it'd be the legal design copiers.

 

[bld522]

Wow. That was the most selfish post I have read besides my own.

I'm glad you enjoyed it! Then again, except to give away as gifts from time to time, I've never bought a knife for altruistic reasons. And consider this. If Rick actually bought into the notion that he should do business with the people who make it possible for him to have the customers he has in the first place, he'd have to include you too, wouldn't he? So I guess you could say my desire to be of service knows no bounds.