Kevin John - Triumph precision XM18, small 3 inches, spanto MANY PHOTOS

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stabman said:
It's a discussion forum.
If I see something I want to comment on, I will.

If people avoided making comments, the entire nature of a discussion board would fail.
There would be no forum.

Or just a bunch of threads like:
"Yep!"
"Cool!"
"Me too!"
"I agree!"

Boring.
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The problem I see with some responses in this thread is the exact opposite of discussion. What I see is posts like "reported", "should never be discussed or reviewed" etc.

A lot of members not only criticize the knife, but also report he thread as if it were an infraction to forum rules or as if the op was promoting illegal activity when he, in fact, is not.

So chat away, that's what forums are for. But please, don't mix healthy criticism with outright censure. One promotes discussion and open mindedness while the other goes against the very purpose of a forum or enthusiast community. It's one thing to say that you don't agree with a post or the way a company operates but it's another to order people not to discuss it entirely.
 
Thanks for the review.

I am pretty sure Hinderer has no interest in knife buyers at this price point, so this knife is not hurting hinderer's business. I doubt he's lost a single sale. It could actually be good for his sales if someompne likes it and wants the real deal.
 
I understand the disdain for copying someone's work and their designs--it is not appropriate and quite despicable.

However,

I have to wonder if part of the frustration and anger towards folks like KJ is that they are producing a product of nearly equivalent quality, but are doing it at a MUCH lower cost to the consumer and end-user. It sort of calls out the original makers pricing as somewhat inflated. Basically, you aren't paying for such a high qu laity knife with premium materials as you are simply paying for a name. Sort of like Froot Loops vs. Froot Rings.

Please don't take my post as justifying the questionable business practices of the clones.
 
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brownshoe said:
Thanks for the review.

I am pretty sure Hinderer has no interest in knife buyers at this price point, so this knife is not hurting Hinderer's business. I doubt he's lost a single sale. It could actually be good for his sales if someone likes it and wants the real deal.
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That's an argument I've heard before. Some researchers suggest that counterfeits amount to free advertising. People will form an attachment to their counterfeit products. Then rather than replace them with counterfeits when they fail or fall apart, they'll opt to buy originals. I'm sure that happens. I'm just not sure how often it happens.
 
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I am amazed that someone doesn't start up "Counterfeit Bl4d3forums" or perhaps "homage Blad3forumz" or something of the such to they can discuss this crap.

Especially those that continue to espouse the pros of knockoffs.. ^^^^

Lets put it this way..If you can interchage parts without an issue..It's not an "homage"..It's a knockoff, meant to capitalize on the hard work of others regardless of not being marked with logos.
 
You can't trust manufacturers from China, they may label the steel or the other parts they are using to be of top quality materials. But there's always a chance that they are just labeling their regular stainless steels as D2 or other better materials because many people don't question the grade of the material if those price points are not exactly leaning towards the lower side.

I have personally asked those sellers on eBay and AliExpress that question. Whether if those steels they are labeling are legit, one of the sellers were "honest" enough to clarify that many of their domestic companies labels 7CR13MOV as D2 or S35VN because the costs of productions are high and not many people can tell them apart. And that's why its more profitable to do that.
 
Why spend that kinda money on risky fakes? 150USD can get you knives of very decent quality from the manufacturers in the US. Kershaws and ZTs are two of the brands I can think of now.
 
Buying from Hinderer or CRK or Strider you get a warranty that stands behind their product. What happens if you have a problem with your KJ or WB? The real deal is a knife for life, money well spent. That's why they come at a high price.
 
MostMenAreRuthless said:
I understand the disdain for copying someone's work and their designs--it is not appropriate and quite despicable.

However,

I have to wonder if part of the frustration and anger towards folks like KJ is that they are producing a product of nearly equivalent quality, but are doing it at a MUCH lower cost to the consumer and end-user. It sort of calls out the original makers pricing as somewhat inflated. Basically, you aren't paying for such a high qu laity knife with premium materials as you are simply paying for a name. Sort of like Froot Loops vs. Froot Rings.

Please don't take my post as justifying the questionable business practices of the clones.
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I don't have a problem paying a premium price for a(any) product that is produced by workers making a good wage. One of the biggest problems we have these days stems from people expecting to get whatever they want for next to nothing. I have expectations to be fairly compensated for the work I do and see no reason others wouldn't expect the same for their work. I know that is straying off topic, but it goes to what you're stating.
 
brownshoe said:
Thanks for the review.

I am pretty sure Hinderer has no interest in knife buyers at this price point, so this knife is not hurting hinderer's business. I doubt he's lost a single sale. It could actually be good for his sales if someompne likes it and wants the real deal.
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bld522 said:
That's an argument I've heard before. Some researchers suggest that counterfeits amount to free advertising. People will form an attachment to their counterfeit products. Then rather than replace them with counterfeits when they fail or fall apart, they'll opt to buy originals. I'm sure that happens. I'm just not sure how often it happens.
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Are you REALLY trying to use this as some kind of excuse for CROOKS ? :D

bhyde said:
meant to capitalize on the hard work of others
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In a nutshell. :thumbup:

DC
 
bhyde said:
I am amazed that someone doesn't start up "Counterfeit Bl4d3forums" or perhaps "homage Blad3forumz" or something of the such to they can discuss this crap.

Especially those that continue to espouse the pros of knockoffs.. ^^^^

Lets put it this way..If you can interchage parts without an issue..It's not an "homage"..It's a knockoff, meant to capitalize on the hard work of others regardless of not being marked with logos.
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Then you should not be having a problem. Most hinderer clones are not identical to the originals. Scales and hardware are usually not interchangeable.

JoeyLiew1611 said:
You can't trust manufacturers from China, they may label the steel or the other parts they are using to be of top quality materials. But there's always a chance that they are just labeling their regular stainless steels as D2 or other better materials because many people don't question the grade of the material if those price points are not exactly leaning towards the lower side.

I have personally asked those sellers on eBay and AliExpress that question. Whether if those steels they are labeling are legit, one of the sellers were "honest" enough to clarify that many of their domestic companies labels 7CR13MOV as D2 or S35VN because the costs of productions are high and not many people can tell them apart. And that's why its more profitable to do that.
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The only knives that the steel many times doesnt match the stated materials are the super cheap clones of existing knives such as the southard and ZT clones. The markings of the knife are such as to give the impression that it is a genuine knife. In the case with many K. John and Adai knives they have and do use the steels they claim to be using. Its simply a matter of having to do your homework. Still as far as trust goes we have no idea if all the knife companies are being truthful about materials and their sourcing. You take everything on faith these days.

jamal_spelling91 said:
Buying from Hinderer or CRK or Strider you get a warranty that stands behind their product. What happens if you have a problem with your KJ or WB? The real deal is a knife for life, money well spent. That's why they come at a high price.
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In every single case I have ever got a knife from china that had issues they were taken care of. Whether it was getting free parts sent to me, discount for cosmetic issues or a complete refund. I have yet to get stuck with a junk knife with no recourse.
 
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Sure,..Rationalize your purchase to yourself any way that you can..use the loopholes that these people use to create these "homages", "copies", etc.
In the end, it doesn't matter because the casts of people will never change..There are thieves, there are people who support thieves and then there are those that have honor and class.
 
bhyde said:
Sure,..Rationalize your purchase to yourself any way that you can..use the loopholes that these people use to create these "homages", "copies", etc.
In the end, it doesn't matter because the casts of people will never change..There are thieves, there are people who support thieves and then there are those that have honor and class.
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So you bring up interchangeable parts as a reason these things are illegitimate and when it is brought to your attention that this ISNT the case now Im just justifying? Perfect example of moving the goal to win the game. And you can sit there with a holier than thou attitude if you want. But if there is one thing life has taught me it is that NO ONE is innocent.
 
flipe8 said:
I don't have a problem paying a premium price for a(any) product that is produced by workers making a good wage. One of the biggest problems we have these days stems from people expecting to get whatever they want for next to nothing. I have expectations to be fairly compensated for the work I do and see no reason others wouldn't expect the same for their work. I know that is straying off topic, but it goes to what you're stating.
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+1000 No wonder there are so many people without jobs or working minimum wage both in the US and in the EU. We are screwing ourselves over and we don't even notice.
 
Doug C said:
Are you REALLY trying to use this as some kind of excuse for CROOKS ? :D

DC
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Of course not. The problem is distinguishing between the crooks and the products they make. There is no excuse for doing business with the former just as there is no excuse for lying about the latter.

The OP has illustrated a terrible yet irrefutable truth. Crooks can and do make very good knives. And they sell them for a fraction of the cost of the originals. As long as they do that, there will always be a market for their products . . . legal constraints and righteous indignation notwithstanding.
 
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bhyde said:
Sure,..Rationalize your purchase to yourself any way that you can..use the loopholes that these people use to create these "homages", "copies", etc.
In the end, it doesn't matter because the casts of people will never change..There are thieves, there are people who support thieves and then there are those that have honor and class.
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It's really not that complicated.

If there is a popular, in demand or certain products that are not obtainable for various reasons there will be another manufacturer that will produce a product like it.

Usually it will be a lower cost option and or will be more available.

Not saying it's right, but that is just the way things are.
 
We've gone beyond the Knife Reviews & Testing forum so I'm moving this to the Feedback forum where there current discussion belongs.
 
Morrow said:
We've gone beyond the Knife Reviews & Testing forum so I'm moving this to the Feedback forum where there current discussion belongs.
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I was surprised it lasted this long before being moved. :D
 
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