- Joined
- Mar 2, 2000
- Messages
- 1,526
Add New York STATE to the list where one can carry in a bar.Now I don't carry when out with the boys,but a drink with my wife after a movie you betcha.
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knife confiscated!
- Thread starter TheProfessional
- Start date
- Joined
- Oct 1, 2002
- Messages
- 1,821
Medic,
You're right. I shouldn't carry in a bar. In all honesty, I really do forget the pistol is on me most of the time (just like my watch). If I know I will be hanging out for any length of time, I seem to remember it's on me. It also does not offer a good example, so anyone reading this, please obey the law. My example should not be emulated by anyone, and I should really try harder to leave it behind if I stop by while running errands, etc.
You're right. I shouldn't carry in a bar. In all honesty, I really do forget the pistol is on me most of the time (just like my watch). If I know I will be hanging out for any length of time, I seem to remember it's on me. It also does not offer a good example, so anyone reading this, please obey the law. My example should not be emulated by anyone, and I should really try harder to leave it behind if I stop by while running errands, etc.
- Joined
- Sep 16, 2002
- Messages
- 1,801
NC is the same way. What I was referring to was if an officer confronts you when you aren't driving. Let's say that manowar699 forgets he has his gun in a bar when a fight breaks out around him, or even with him (this is hypothetical), and there is an LEO there or nearby and pulls those involved to the side for questioning. In NC, manowar699 has to declare that he is carrying. I don't know if they have the disclosure laws where he is, but I would bet they probably do. There are plenty of other situations where an officer might need to question you, and if you are carrying, you have to tell them.
Mike
- Joined
- Dec 15, 2002
- Messages
- 24
ok, heading over to the club tonight for this "meeting," but I'll go to the cops first just to be sure I don't get ganged up on... I will release the name of the club after this incident has passed, so that all in NY may avoid such a place!
- Joined
- Dec 15, 2002
- Messages
- 24
Well, I went in armed with all your advice and dressed to impress, but the cops were of no help once they discovered what I was fighting for. "One less knife on the streets is fine with us" I could almost hear their thoughts. No arguing or convincing would help, they insisted that no crime had been committed, and that it was a civil case to be taken up in small claims court. "Not a police matter, not even if the manager was hostile over the phone... but call us if he attacks you." Great! Thanks. They had the gall to say that no theft had occurred, and that the club had the right to do this if I was trying to get in with a knife. Where did these guys learn about the law?? Never mind that I had a witness, photos and measurements of the knife, as well as printouts of its legality from the DA's office! Hell, this wasn't even the issue at hand! It didn't matter, because since I carry a knife, I'm a criminal in their eyes! Typical. So, my girlfriend and I were off to the club, frustrated already.
After 15 minutes waiting out in the cold, the manager, Will Plaza (of Cheetah 12 West 21st Street... hint: don't go there!) lumbered outside... he was quick to pass the buck to the invisisible "security manager" who happened not to be arriving until midnight. It was now 9pm. I looked at my poor girlfriend, shuddering next to me, and she suggested that we stick it through and wait. Mr. Plaza said that we were welcome to wait, as he pointed his steroid-laced finger towards the other side of the velvet ropes. He had the audacity then to say (with a sick glee) that he was heading back inside since he had a cough and it was too cold outside. Man, where's my M-16 when I need it?! My poor girlfriend was just getting over a cold herself, and then I realized what was going on. I was simply not getting the knife back. Sure, the it was sentimental, but was it worth all of this? My father had given it to me 4 years ago, but hey, I'm lucky enough to still have the old man around, as well as a girlfriend who is so great and supportive through all the BS I put us through! Would this time, effort, and energy not be spent better on them, especially in this holiday season? SO I decided then and there to drop the issue, head home, and curl up with her (after writing this reply) in the warmth of our home. We had come 2 bloody hours into the city to deal with this nonsense, but enough is enough, and the knife is, after all, just a knife. At least now I have an excuse to buy a couple new ones to make up for the loss!! Anyway, to end this epic struggle of good Vs Evil-non-knife-appreciating-nightclub-goons (and unhelpful coppers), I want to thank you all for the effort you put into helping me out, esp Gollnick. Sorry that it had to end this way, but let's put a group effort into cursing the new owner of the knife... let more harm than good come to his hide, every time the blade is unfolded! Take care my blade-wielding brothers, appreciate your loved ones as much as your knives, and enjoy the holidays!
-Larry in NY
PS Extra chessiness added free of charge!
After 15 minutes waiting out in the cold, the manager, Will Plaza (of Cheetah 12 West 21st Street... hint: don't go there!) lumbered outside... he was quick to pass the buck to the invisisible "security manager" who happened not to be arriving until midnight. It was now 9pm. I looked at my poor girlfriend, shuddering next to me, and she suggested that we stick it through and wait. Mr. Plaza said that we were welcome to wait, as he pointed his steroid-laced finger towards the other side of the velvet ropes. He had the audacity then to say (with a sick glee) that he was heading back inside since he had a cough and it was too cold outside. Man, where's my M-16 when I need it?! My poor girlfriend was just getting over a cold herself, and then I realized what was going on. I was simply not getting the knife back. Sure, the it was sentimental, but was it worth all of this? My father had given it to me 4 years ago, but hey, I'm lucky enough to still have the old man around, as well as a girlfriend who is so great and supportive through all the BS I put us through! Would this time, effort, and energy not be spent better on them, especially in this holiday season? SO I decided then and there to drop the issue, head home, and curl up with her (after writing this reply) in the warmth of our home. We had come 2 bloody hours into the city to deal with this nonsense, but enough is enough, and the knife is, after all, just a knife. At least now I have an excuse to buy a couple new ones to make up for the loss!! Anyway, to end this epic struggle of good Vs Evil-non-knife-appreciating-nightclub-goons (and unhelpful coppers), I want to thank you all for the effort you put into helping me out, esp Gollnick. Sorry that it had to end this way, but let's put a group effort into cursing the new owner of the knife... let more harm than good come to his hide, every time the blade is unfolded! Take care my blade-wielding brothers, appreciate your loved ones as much as your knives, and enjoy the holidays!
-Larry in NY
PS Extra chessiness added free of charge!
- Joined
- Jun 6, 2002
- Messages
- 2,986
This is an unfortunate ending, but at least it sounds like you've made peace with it.
We are swimming in an ever-evaporating pool of public discourse with regard to our right to carry and enjoy our knives - and perhaps the peace of mind they can convey. We just have to think ahead so that our gear remains our gear and is not confiscated in the first place.
Even a non-magnetic knife may not survive a good pat-down (although I've been carrying one in a manner that can slip inside the front of my drawers - no one should be patting you down there, and , if they do - what're they gonna say?.., ask you, "is that a knife in your pants. or are you happy to see me?....)
I guess it's frustrating is that what is being taken away is the spontaneity - (that's what seems to have gotten you in the first place) - going somewhere fun on-the-fly and suddenly confronted with displaced adversity.
We are swimming in an ever-evaporating pool of public discourse with regard to our right to carry and enjoy our knives - and perhaps the peace of mind they can convey. We just have to think ahead so that our gear remains our gear and is not confiscated in the first place.
Even a non-magnetic knife may not survive a good pat-down (although I've been carrying one in a manner that can slip inside the front of my drawers - no one should be patting you down there, and , if they do - what're they gonna say?.., ask you, "is that a knife in your pants. or are you happy to see me?....)
I guess it's frustrating is that what is being taken away is the spontaneity - (that's what seems to have gotten you in the first place) - going somewhere fun on-the-fly and suddenly confronted with displaced adversity.
- Joined
- Jan 21, 2002
- Messages
- 2,483
Atleast you made an effort eh.
He obviously was there to waste your time.
The club, Cheetah 12 W 21st Street New York #212-398-3800/212-206-7770 seems to be a place to avoid.
It seems other New Yorkers like this club, there is more then one way to get back at them.
You'll see them as being in 7th place on the poll disagree with it to kick them out of there position. (Have to become a member before being able to vote)
http://newyork.citysearch.com/best/results/7738
Other people phone them and see what they have to say.
Ruin there establishment.
youll see on this site you can write a comment, give them a comment you feel they deserve (dont have to be member to post)
Goto this site, click on the vinyl cord links under neath every club date, and take out all the free VIP order forms. Give them fake info.
He obviously was there to waste your time.
The club, Cheetah 12 W 21st Street New York #212-398-3800/212-206-7770 seems to be a place to avoid.
It seems other New Yorkers like this club, there is more then one way to get back at them.
You'll see them as being in 7th place on the poll disagree with it to kick them out of there position. (Have to become a member before being able to vote)
http://newyork.citysearch.com/best/results/7738
Other people phone them and see what they have to say.
Ruin there establishment.
youll see on this site you can write a comment, give them a comment you feel they deserve (dont have to be member to post)
Goto this site, click on the vinyl cord links under neath every club date, and take out all the free VIP order forms. Give them fake info.
Gollnick
Musical Director
- Joined
- Mar 22, 1999
- Messages
- 29,258
Tomorrow, make photocopies of all of the material you've collected (you've already gone to the trouble of gathering it up, so why not use it?). Mail it all to your city Councilman with a copy to the Chief of Police. Include a cover letter explaining that you are the victim of a crime, that the DA's office agrees with that fact, but that the local police office won't even take a report. Indicate that you fear there may be some corruption in the Police Deparment. Ask for an appointment to meet with a representative of the councilman's office. Follow up with a telephone call immediately after the new year.
And file the case in Small Claims Court. You have nothing to loose except your knife which you've already lost.
If you file a case in court, a lot of things happen. First, the club will probably want to get their attorney to review it; that'll cost them $200 right there. Second, they have to notify their liability insurance carrier. Even if the case is ultimately settled or dropped or even if the judge rules in the club's favor, their insurance company still counts it against them, and will maybe raise their rate or even drop them. Why? Because the more suits a business has brought against them, the greater risk of loosing one. Third, someone from the club will have to spend a half-day in court dealing with the situation. And, finally, it actually gets noted in their credit report. Again, the more suits a business seems to be attracting, the more nervous potential creditors will be about them.
Keep in mind that the issue here is not the nature of your property. It doesn't matter if it's a stuffed puppy dog or a pocket knife. Your knife is legal to own and legal to carry, every bit as legal as a stuffed puppy dog, and it's your private property. It's been stolen from you. The fact that it's a knife doesn't make stealing it legal.
I urge you to continue persuing the case. The hard part is actually over with. You've gathered the information. And from here on out, you do not have to go back to the club again. You've been very cooperative with them and given them every opportunity to settle the matter quietly and privately.
And file the case in Small Claims Court. You have nothing to loose except your knife which you've already lost.
If you file a case in court, a lot of things happen. First, the club will probably want to get their attorney to review it; that'll cost them $200 right there. Second, they have to notify their liability insurance carrier. Even if the case is ultimately settled or dropped or even if the judge rules in the club's favor, their insurance company still counts it against them, and will maybe raise their rate or even drop them. Why? Because the more suits a business has brought against them, the greater risk of loosing one. Third, someone from the club will have to spend a half-day in court dealing with the situation. And, finally, it actually gets noted in their credit report. Again, the more suits a business seems to be attracting, the more nervous potential creditors will be about them.
Keep in mind that the issue here is not the nature of your property. It doesn't matter if it's a stuffed puppy dog or a pocket knife. Your knife is legal to own and legal to carry, every bit as legal as a stuffed puppy dog, and it's your private property. It's been stolen from you. The fact that it's a knife doesn't make stealing it legal.
I urge you to continue persuing the case. The hard part is actually over with. You've gathered the information. And from here on out, you do not have to go back to the club again. You've been very cooperative with them and given them every opportunity to settle the matter quietly and privately.
Good Evening All-
TheProfessional, sorry to hear that this meeting did not go your way. As mentioned, it seems that you have made peace with the situation and don't wish to invest significant time over a somewhat inexpensive, yet sentimentally important knife. You'll get no criticism from most forumites on your decision. Before this event is resigned to fate, maybe you do want to take this to small-claims court. If nothing else, you would be causing the owner a healthy amount of hassle.
Boink, your statement below is a great "bow" on top of this whole mess. I guess the lesson we learned is that if we encounter any type of frisking/metal detectors while out and about, we must ALL be IMMEDIATELY prepared to retain our legal property with righteous fury. Gollnick shared some great insights on the concept of "sanctioned theft" earlier in the thread, too.
Here's a text description along with some reviews and photos of this lousy club. Rest assured, I won't spend a dime to try and listen to that inane reggae and thuggish hip-hop music in this pathetic dump. :barf:
You'll notice in the first URL listed that these nightclubs have an online community just like BladeForums.com for knife knerds....very interesting.
Regards,
~ Blue Jays ~
TheProfessional, sorry to hear that this meeting did not go your way. As mentioned, it seems that you have made peace with the situation and don't wish to invest significant time over a somewhat inexpensive, yet sentimentally important knife. You'll get no criticism from most forumites on your decision. Before this event is resigned to fate, maybe you do want to take this to small-claims court. If nothing else, you would be causing the owner a healthy amount of hassle.
Boink, your statement below is a great "bow" on top of this whole mess. I guess the lesson we learned is that if we encounter any type of frisking/metal detectors while out and about, we must ALL be IMMEDIATELY prepared to retain our legal property with righteous fury. Gollnick shared some great insights on the concept of "sanctioned theft" earlier in the thread, too.
Here's a text description along with some reviews and photos of this lousy club. Rest assured, I won't spend a dime to try and listen to that inane reggae and thuggish hip-hop music in this pathetic dump. :barf:
You'll notice in the first URL listed that these nightclubs have an online community just like BladeForums.com for knife knerds....very interesting.
Regards,
~ Blue Jays ~
- Joined
- Oct 6, 2000
- Messages
- 567
I highly recommend you continue this.
For me, it would be no longer a case of getting your knife back, necessarily (of course I would still want it and eventually get it back), but of a case of wanting to win and slam them good. What happened to you today would have pissed me off - a lot. I would follow Golnicks advice to the T...
Your actions here will determine their future policy on this - it will either change to accomodate people like you (they give knives back) or it will stay the same (ie, no further action from yourself). Many many other people carry knives into that place, I'm sure...you would be a great help to future knife carriers.
Warthog
For me, it would be no longer a case of getting your knife back, necessarily (of course I would still want it and eventually get it back), but of a case of wanting to win and slam them good. What happened to you today would have pissed me off - a lot. I would follow Golnicks advice to the T...
Your actions here will determine their future policy on this - it will either change to accomodate people like you (they give knives back) or it will stay the same (ie, no further action from yourself). Many many other people carry knives into that place, I'm sure...you would be a great help to future knife carriers.
Warthog
- Joined
- Dec 15, 2002
- Messages
- 24
I am considering continuing the battle after reading your responses, and I will keep my paperwork, but it won't happen until after the holidays... if I do decide to pursue this, I will keep you guys posted. Thanks.