knife confiscated!

The Pro, relax and enjoy the holidays. When they are over get back to the good fight. Don't let police who ignore their duties and thug managers decide the law. Remember, 1 person can make a difference.

Let us know what you decide, until then, happy holidays to all.
 
TheProfessional,

Is there a local newspaper in the town where this nightclub is located that might print a "letter to the editor"? If there is, go-ahead and write one, calmly stating the facts, and asking why this nightclub can get away with keeping your legal property...(And name them, including their address/phone number and the managers' name.).
 
Originally posted by glockman99
TheProfessional,

Is there a local newspaper in the town where this nightclub is located that might print a "letter to the editor"?
Click to expand...

Yeah the New York Times.:)
 
Laws vary in different states,but I honestly don't understand the local officers attitude on this, even though they said they consider it a civil matter. Apparantly the local LEO's didn't take the time to get the other side of the story which should have been done. The advise about taking this to small claims court is on target. This is what needs to be done. Where I am, this would be hard to make a theft charge stick. Take the SOB's to court and good luck.
 
Originally posted by Gollnick
[.................
If you file a case in court, a lot of things happen. First, the club will probably want to get their attorney to review it; that'll cost them $200 right there. Second, they have to notify their liability insurance carrier. Even if the case is ultimately settled or dropped or even if the judge rules in the club's favor, their insurance company still counts it against them, and will maybe raise their rate or even drop them. Why? Because the more suits a business has brought against them, the greater risk of loosing one. Third, someone from the club will have to spend a half-day in court dealing with the situation. And, finally, it actually gets noted in their credit report. Again, the more suits a business seems to be attracting, the more nervous potential creditors will be about them..........


I'm on your side but I can see no reason why they should report it to their insurance company. And who would note in their credit report??

John in Boise
Click to expand...
 
Business insurance generally contains a contractural obligation that the insured must report any law suit brought against him to the insurer immediately. This way, the carrier is aware of his risk exposer.

Furthermore, the rates for business insurance vary depending on what the insurer perceives at the risk of insuring that business. There are a lot of factors that go into determining this. The individual history of each business is considered. A business that's getting a lot of suits filed against it has a greater risk of loosing a suit (which means an insurance claim) than one that's not getting any suits filed against it. That's only common sense.

Many business loans also contain a contractural obligation for the business to immediately notify the creditor if there's a law suit filed. The creditor wants to be aware of any risk affecting his investment.

And that's why credit reporting agencies also incorporate public records of law suits into credit reports. This is true of personal credit reports too.

It's riskier to lend money to someone who's getting sued a lot.



But, that's not the real reason that I hope our friend Mr. TheProfessional persues this matter. He's been very gentle with this business. He called them on the telephone hoping to resolve the matter quickly and quietly and they were belligerent toward him. And when he accepted their invitation to a meeting to discuss the matter, and then came to their establishment (at considerable personal inconvenience) during their business hours, prepared to have a polite discussion, they refused to even meet with him as they had originally suggested and agreed too.

Clearly, this manager thinks that he's above the law. He can steal other people's lawful property without consequence. He can hide inside of his club behind his bouncers. And he can just ignore "the little people."

He needs to be called into court to account for his actions.

TheProfessional can do that. He can file the suit. And when he does that, the manager will have three choices: 1) Sit down and talk to TheProfessional, who now has some "muscle" of his own, and try and resolve the matter. 2) Go to court and explain to a judge why he has the legal authority to confiscate TheProfessional's personal property and why he didn't call a police officer to deal with the situation at the time. Even if he succeeds, it'll still cost him a couple hundred dollars and a half-day of his time. or 3) He can simply ignore the suit and accept a judgement against him.

If he chooses to accept a judgement, then that's a definite strike against him with his insurance company and with creditors.

He may choose to ignore the judgement and simply not pay. If that happens, then TheProfessional's got some more paperwork to do. He's got to file a lien against the property. In some states, if that lien isn't paid within a certain number of years, the holder can foreclose.... on the whole property. So, TheProfessional could end up as the new owner of New York's Seventh (and now knife-friendly) dance club. Even if that's not true, the owner is still gonna find that he can not borrow money with a lien against his property and he can't sell the property either since nobody will touch it (except at cut-throat prices) with a lien on it.

This is America. Just because you manage the seventh most popular dance club in New York, just because all to "right people" frequent your establishment, just because you have a line of bouncers in front of your door, doesn't mean that you're untouchable.
 
Throughout this whole experience, it stunned as well as frustrated me to find out just how prejudiced people were-be it bouncers, club managers, police, my friends-against those who own and carry knives... the first question when I told this tale was always,"well, why were you carrying a knife anyway?" not well, why did he not give your property back? It upsets me that the media has equated knife fans with criminals, and I can see how the gun folk have rallied for their rights with the NRA. This occurence is more than simply theft... it represents the prejudice that exists against us, and if there was a political power fighting against this, I would surely join their ranks after this incident.

-dpro
 
Paying for a loss in small claims court seems to be a very likely probability, given the way things have gone so far, so it looks like I would just be grabbing my ankles in the event we go in front of a judge. :(
 
I sympathize with The Pro. However, you've got to know when there is no winning. Are you seriously going to file in small claims court? That's not free, for one thing. For another, in New York you'll probably get some liberal, anti crime, knife fearing judge who won't care about "protecting your property rights."

You've got to face the facts. Everyday in this country we are losing our civil liberties. They'll use some argument about the common good outweighing your property rights, or some other similar argument that is used everyday to justify the erosion of our civil liberties. Does anyone really think that this situation is going to champion our cause? It's a losing battle. We've just got to enjoy what rights that we can while we still can. The worst part is, the side that used to keep our civil liberties in mind, the conservative side of politics, is becoming the biggest threat to our liberties by turing our society more and more into a police state. You won't win in New York. Hell, you probably wouldn't win in Texas.

But I agree with you in principle.

Marco
 
Prof.

You've got to get them back for this... god knows how many knives they have taken!! I think this is complete weasel behavior on both the clubs and the cop’s part, and you will be doing all of us a huge favor by calling them on it.

Happy holidays
:cool: :D
 
<sigh> Okay, here's the summary so far . . . The Professional (nice handle, by the way) has been f*cked. The club took his knife, has been sh*tty about returning it despite his best efforts and this is just not worth a trip to small claims court, where if he loses with a liberal NY judge he pays court costs. As depressing as it seems, there is really no recourse here.

So, in short, he's screwed. The question now becomes, what do we, as the knife appreciating community, do about it.

I, for one, would be willing to replace the knife. I have a couple that are laying around not doing much of anything.

I'll offer a blue G-10 Bladeforums custom Spyderco Native in 440V with Mike Sastre neck sheath, the Professional pays shipping.

Anybody else?

Chad
 
In summary, "The Professional" is getting screwed to his knees by the club and the cops. And as we've said before, it aint the cost of the knife, it's the principle of the matter. That just aint fockin' right that can happen when a guys operating 100% within the confines of the law when carrying his knife.

I'd still rather see him pursue the matter agressively, although I can appreciate what a pain in the a$$ it is. Damn, it's about time the good guys got a win here...

How much money would a person be talking to take it to small claims?

I'd personally be more eager to fork out a few bucks to help pursue the matter than to replace the knife at this juncture in time.

So far the Professional seems a pretty straight shooter, and doesn't seem the type to leave out subtle details like "oh yeah..I'd just threatened to castrate the bouncer when he took the knife away..."

what y'all think?
 
I'm with Runs With Scissors on this one. Replacing the knife, while a great gesture, is invisible to the club and ignores the basic problem. I'm willing to donate to a "legal defense fund" to help cover the Pro's costs.
 
I'd throw in some cash for the legal defense fund in a heart beat.
I would also (if it will help) go to the court.

Another thing that might be helpful, would be to get in touch with ATKI. They could be helpful. http://www.akti.org/
 
Yeah. That sounds good. I'll fly up from Texas and testify in The Pro's behalf. What do you need for the filing fees? How about some professional legal advice. I'll wire $5000 right away!?
 
macavada ....Marco

Being negative sacrcastic and trying to scare someone by blowing this out of proportion is not gonna help anyone. This man's situation doesnt even concern you, unless you believe that if we give up in these situations it set presidence for people to steal from us in the future. If you did believe that, you woulndn't have the attitude you have now. You obvioulsy have no idea how much legal advice costs and no one ever suggested to fly you to New York. It is apparent that that would only harm the situation since you think this crime isnt worth fighting anyways. There are plenty forum dwelling knife nuts in the NYC area to offer support by physically being there. Since you are new you'd also be surprised to find out this forum has raised a bunch of money if the cause is true and worthy in the past. You underestimate the conviction and power of the group you just signed up for. This is something most of us care about very much....much more than you.

It is Pro's decision whether it is worthy to keep fighting. Only he knows the true value of what has been stolen. And he doenst need inflated figures and doomsaying amidst the good Gollnick-y advice he is already getting.
 
Here are some links to info on NY small claims court. You can sue for up to $3,000. I did not read this stuff carefully, but it looks like all it costs is a $6 filing fee which is refunded to you if you win the case. It looks like you can also pick up free additional info on what to do at one of the courthouses. I dunno, but IMHO your worst case scenario is $6 and your time. Best case is you get the value of the knife, cause inconvenience to Cheetah, and score a victory for justice. If you don't have the receipt for the knife, make sure you have several price quotes of some sort for the same model to prove value.




http://www.newyork.bbb.org/library/publications/subrep83.html

http://www.ci.nyc.ny.us/html/dca/html/smallclm.html

http://www.tenant.net/Court/Howcourt/sclaim.html
 
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