Knife for defence against wild critters ?

Sometimes the best solution to a problem is the proper application of explosives. Or, failing that option, a small lead pill. Or several of them.
 
Being ripped open by the Lions claws as it walks including opening up your arm and severing your tendons and causing severe wounds that almost were mortal... yet taking stock of your options and waiting for the right moment careful not to alert the lion that you are indeed still alive despite suffering continued wounds and in great pain shows no ability at all to Plan and act under stress and hardship.(Sarcasm if it wasn't clear) The Lion only carried him 60 yards, I have seen lions drag kills and they can move at a decent speed... so define "long time"?

Muscle memory works for reflex(martial artists and soldiers are proof of this)
Then the brain kicks in... some people will panic others wont.

Asking if people can rely on superior human brain is a silly question, what do you suggest for people that panic and cant think and so no teaching/training means anything?
Anything you suggest will require them to think... remember.. act.. exactly what you are claiming we cant rely on.

Even stabbing a bear as fast as you can, is itself thought put into action.


PS-Cheetah generally don't attack humans and not a single case exists where they are known to have eaten one.


Jens Schuetz said:
If you have the luxury of being dragged away still alive and not mortally wounded it seems you have time to feel for the lions heart and stab it.
However I imagine a usual lion bear cheetah attack will be over faster.
There is simply no time to think and feel around. Still you can use your human mind if you apply it to prepare for such events (see this discussion here)
But in the actual event I would resort to wildly stabbing and slashing whatever gets in reach. I've been in hairy situations and can tell you with adrenaline there isn't much thinking going on and too complicated stuff even if trained for years just doesn't work.
Now if reflected on these incidents later one might assign purpose and conscious intent to certain actions when in reality it was just pure luck or instinct. Especially if you write a book about it or tell others.

He himself describes himself as being scared and inactive for a long time during that event. Lucky the lion gave him enough time to switch on his superior human brain and do something. Is that something we should count on?
Click to expand...
 
Last edited:
Phoynix said:
Being ripped open by the Lions claws as it walks including opening up your arm and severing your tendons and causing severe wounds that almost were mortal... yet taking stock of your options and waiting for the right moment careful not to alert the lion that you are indeed still alive despite suffering continued wounds and in great pain shows no ability at all to Plan and act under stress and hardship.(Sarcasm if it wasn't clear) The Lion only carried him 60 yards, I have seen lions drag kills and they can move at a decent speed... so define "long time"?

Muscle memory works for reflex(martial artists and soldiers are proof of this)
Then the brain kicks in... some people will panic others wont.

Asking if people can rely on superior human brain is a silly question, what do you suggest for people that panic and cant think and so no teaching/training means anything?
Anything you suggest will require them to think... remember.. act.. exactly what you are claiming we cant rely on.

Even stabbing a bear as fast as you can, is itself thought put into action.


PS-Cheetah generally don't attack humans and not a single case exists where they are known to have eaten one.
Click to expand...
How often did you have to defend yourself? Great if you know for sure that you can keep a clear head and wait for good moments. I can't! even if trained since decades in various martial arts. More so for people who aren't trained. What would I suggest untrained people do when attacked? Something complicated or easy? I guess you know my answer.

A cold trained sniper one shot one kill.
A normal guy like me spray and pray since I'll be too shaky to aim anyways.

Was the guy in your story cool and trained or did he get lucky and then interpreted all his action with rational after the fact? Might have been even less damaged if he would have fought back earlier even if less planned and less cordinated.

Even in real battles it is most of the time better to strike less good but fast than spending time planning the ideal move which you might not have time for anyways. Ask Rommel, Clausewitz or Sun Tzu and I haven't heard of any military strategist or martial artist to suggests otherwise.

PS my own freezing/hesitation in fights could afterwards be explained by coolness and thoughtfulness and earn me admiration since I always survived and took less damage than the other guys. Yeah I'm a hero. However here in the Internet I can be honest and tell you that I was just too scared and my human brain was not good for much and even my human legs where shaking. That I won was just pure luck when I suddenly unfroze and threw random unaimed punches at them.
 
Last edited:
Jens Schuetz said:
Didn't have much of a choice there right hand in the bears mouth already. :eek:
I'm trying to imagine with my arm down the throat if my head would have enough reach to bite the bears throat. Maybe only if it's a tiny bear and it's not my arm down the throat but only my hand between the teeth.
Anyways it's the second time I'm reading this I think the other one was a native lady having her arm down a bears throat.
What's up with this?
Do bears like to swallow limbs first.
Or is it just the human extending his arms in defense and too frozen to move so it's simply the first thing the bear can put between his teeth ?
Or is it something strategic the human defender does on purpose?
Click to expand...

My guess, and it is just a guess, is that getting the arm in the bear's mouth is more of a lucky accident than anything else. I don't know that bears go for the arms, or that people intentionally put their arms in the bears mouth. But it certainly seems from what I have read and heard, that if the bear gets your arm you at least have a chance to do SOMETHING. Whether or not the something you do has any significant effect is another matter, but at least you have some opportunity.
 
I have had the boar hunter, but found it too huge and also extremely unpractical to use it if necessary for cutting and chopping tasks. The two bushmans indeed seems to be the most effective weapons aside from guns and pistols, and as well very good to use them as a knife.
 
Sun Tzu
"He will win who, prepared himself, waits to take the enemy unprepared."
Or
“Appear weak when you are strong, and strong when you are weak.”
Or
“Engage people with what they expect; it is what they are able to discern and confirms their projections. It settles them into predictable patterns of response, occupying their minds while you wait for the extraordinary moment — that which they cannot anticipate.”

Sun Tzu disagrees with you.

As a matter of fact I dont recall Sun Tzu ever suggesting people strike as fast and ineffective as possible to win, I am assuming you have actually read the Art of War?
When one resorts to violence one should put all effort and essence into the act, yet it still needs to be meaningful in how its applied. In modern society many people lack the will to use violence... and half ass it and end up dead because of it when they were superior to the foe.

I have been in life and death situations, burned alive, possibly shot.. I didn't panic and I have no military training.
Not sure exactly what you think "Training" is... fire fighters dont learn combat training... they face life and death situations.... Tree loppers same thing...
Training is just being taught the best way to deal with a situation so if the situation arises you have the knowledge and practice to fall back on.
Learning bears anatomy, practice pulling your knife with each hand standing and on the ground is training.


Really think at this point I'm beating a dead horse in regards to this thread and may have been for some time.
dead-horse.gif


Jens Schuetz said:
How often did you have to defend yourself? Great if you know for sure that you can keep a clear head and wait for good moments. I can't! even if trained since decades in various martial arts. More so for people who aren't trained. What would I suggest untrained people do when attacked? Something complicated or easy? I guess you know my answer.

A cold trained sniper one shot one kill.
A normal guy like me spray and pray since I'll be too shaky to aim anyways.

Was the guy in your story cool and trained or did he get lucky and then interpreted all his action with rational after the fact? Might have been even less damaged if he would have fought back earlier even if less planned and less cordinated.

Even in real battles it is most of the time better to strike less good but fast than spending time planning the ideal move which you might not have time for anyways. Ask Rommel, Clausewitz or Sun Tzu and I haven't heard of any military strategist or martial artist to suggests otherwise.

PS my own freezing/hesitation in fights could afterwards be explained by coolness and thoughtfulness and earn me admiration since I always survived and took less damage than the other guys. Yeah I'm a hero. However here in the Internet I can be honest and tell you that I was just too scared and my human brain was not good for much and even my human legs where shaking. That I won was just pure luck when I suddenly unfroze and threw random unaimed punches at them.
Click to expand...
 
Phoynix said:
Sun Tzu
"He will win who, prepared himself, waits to take the enemy unprepared."
Or
“Appear weak when you are strong, and strong when you are weak.”
Or
“Engage people with what they expect; it is what they are able to discern and confirms their projections. It settles them into predictable patterns of response, occupying their minds while you wait for the extraordinary moment — that which they cannot anticipate.”

Sun Tzu disagrees with you.

As a matter of fact I dont recall Sun Tzu ever suggesting people strike as fast and ineffective as possible to win, I am assuming you have actually read the Art of War?
When one resorts to violence one should put all effort and essence into the act, yet it still needs to be meaningful in how its applied. In modern society many people lack the will to use violence... and half ass it and end up dead because of it when they were superior to the foe.

I have been in life and death situations, burned alive, possibly shot.. I didn't panic and I have no military training.
Not sure exactly what you think "Training" is... fire fighters dont learn combat training... they face life and death situations.... Tree loppers same thing...
Training is just being taught the best way to deal with a situation so if the situation arises you have the knowledge and practice to fall back on.
Learning bears anatomy, practice pulling your knife with each hand standing and on the ground is training.


Really think at this point I'm beating a dead horse in regards to this thread and may have been for some time.
dead-horse.gif
Click to expand...
Preparation happens before the battle. Once in it it's too late.

Sun Tzu:
Opportunities multiply as they are seized.
(Doesn't sound like waiting for them but creating them by action)
Know yourself and you will win all battles.
(I know myself and others can't think under lethal stress)
Move swift as the Wind and closely-formed as the Wood. Attack like the Fire*
(Yep see first one)

Sorry that you see dead horses and underestimate your abilities. I for one liked your points even if they don't apply to me or other people who are more like deer in headlights than Kasparov when facing a stronger animal. You say it's sad. I agree but knowing myself I believe hitting whatever whenever I can beats waiting and aiming for a perfect shot which realistically and honestly I wouldn't be able to.

Do what works for you.You know yourself best. I do what I believe works for me.
To the newbie who is not as fire hardened as you I would also suggest to strike hard and fast frequent and as early as possible even if he wouldn't hit the heart that way.
Honestly would you really not got for the extended limbs first would you play victim and get chewed so you can get closer to the heart?

I'm a bit sad that you misquoted me and suggested I advocate strikes as ineffective as possible.
I simply meant that decisiveness most often is the winning factor even if it sacrifices some effectiveness. Suggesting total weakness on purpose wasn't my intention and I bet you knew it ;)
 
Last edited:
Phoynix said:
Really think at this point I'm beating a dead horse in regards to this thread and may have been for some time.
dead-horse.gif
Click to expand...

No this thread will live forever! I predict a few years of calm before another action packed necro. Also notice how I worked a way to get the Victorian horse beating graphic back into this thread so the reader gets to see it 3 times on one page.

Edit. I didn't type "claim" rather "calm". I am going to turn off this auto correct or maybe my mind is shot.
 
Last edited:
Woods Walker said:
No this thread will live forever! I predict a few years of claim before another action packed necro. Also notice how I worked a way to get the Victorian horse beating graphic back into this thread so the reader gets to see it 3 times on one page.
Click to expand...

2026.jpg
 
Whenever threads like this come up, folks should just assume people are asking "what knife is best SHOULD ALL ELSE FAIL?".

Everyone already knows they should familiarize themselves with the geography and local wildlife prior to experiencing it firsthand.

Everyone already knows a .45-70 rifle is a better option than a knife.

Everyone already knows a .44 or .357 revolver is not as good as the rifle, but also better than the knife.

So what I think people are really asking is, if a bear attacks despite my best efforts to avoid it, and I don't have time to get off a shot or if the shot/s I do get off miss or aren't immediately fatal, the bear is upon me, and all I can reach is my last gasp knife, what knife should that be?

All the debate about the wisdom of using a knife against a bear attack, and the suggestions to learn bear behavior are pointless; nobody thinks it's smart to venture into active bear territory armed only with a knife and completely ignorant about wild animals. What people are trying to determine here is what to carry in the event all those other options and precautions fail.

Bear spray isn't a very good option unless there's absolutely no breeze whatsoever; because if there is the stream may not travel very far or straight, may not impact or affect the bear, or worse yet may blow back in your own face, rendering you unable to further defend yourself.

I've yet to have a face-to-face bear experience; but knowing the possibility exists when I choose to hike in dense forests they inhabit (often with my dog who might also be a target), I've read personal accounts and asked for suggestions from those with a lot more experience in such situations.

If I'm in a region where there's a greater likelihood of such an encounter, I'll carry my .45-70 with HSM bear loads, a .357 sidearm also with HSM bear loads, and a large, strong fixed blade with a good piercing point, slender profile, and a guard (the guard doesn't really serve as a typical guard against another knife in this case; it prevents your hand from sliding down onto the blade if you must thrust it into the thick, tough hide, especially if it's already slick with sweat and/or blood).

Neither an education nor any of those tools guarantees your survival; we are talking about an angry quarter to half-ton animal with enormous teeth and 5 knives on each paw after all... you're just trying to improve the odds.

I did hear somebody once suggest taking along an acquaintance who is a lot slower than you. ;)
 
G8R8U2 said:
Bear spray isn't a very good option unless there's absolutely no breeze whatsoever; because if there is the stream may not travel very far or straight, may not impact or affect the bear, or worse yet may blow back in your own face, rendering you unable to further defend yourself.
Click to expand...

How about bear spray and the weather channel on my phone so I know when it's perfectly calm? The two combined should be more effective than a .45-70? Dang this thread is so much fun.

On a side note.

dead-horse.gif
 
Agreed Woods Walker!

[video=youtube;_3QT-Nrd9Iw]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_3QT-Nrd9Iw[/video]
 
B34NS said:
Agreed Woods Walker!

[video=youtube;_3QT-Nrd9Iw]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_3QT-Nrd9Iw[/video]
Click to expand...

I've always loved his teachings and stuff....but I've always wondered this as well...

why does a Canadian of Polish immigrants wear a Scottish Tam?

:D

Seriously though......Boris74 says he's dead wrong.
 
druid189 said:
I've always loved his teachings and stuff....but I've always wondered this as well...

why does a Canadian of Polish immigrants wear a Scottish Tam?

:D
Click to expand...

Ha! I've thought the same thing, I figured he wears the balmoral bonnet from his days teaching canadian armed forces, but this is purely my assumption.
 
druid189 said:
I've always loved his teachings and stuff....but I've always wondered this as well...

why does a Canadian of Polish immigrants wear a Scottish Tam?

:D
Click to expand...
He probably just likes it. Non-Scottish people wear kilts too.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top