Knife Show Question

Knife Shows are VERY IMPORTANT to the advancement of custom knives and to the positive preservation and growth of the custom knife community.

Notice I didn’t qualify my above statement with “IMO” or “I believe” as I always try to do. That’s because the above is not my opinion but a FACT.

Even though the Internet has done wonders in progressing the knives and the community it will never be able to replace Knife Shows as is it can not provide or totally provide very important elements that Knife Shows do.

In attending 5-7 knife shows per year and speaking to hundreds of knife enthusiasts while working the CKCA Booth and from taking the many general and “someone has done me wrong” e-mails from collectors to our CKCA website and forum “contact us” functions, I’m able to somewhat keep a finger on the pulse of knife shows. And as a result, I’m starting to worry more and more about their future and what this could mean to custom knives.

Unfortunately, it’s not just the poor economy (as economies turn around), but also the popular opinion that everything a collector or maker needs is available from the Internet and a growing negative opinion of knife shows in general brought on by practices discussed here in this thread.

In my opinion, Knife Shows in many respects is what it's all about, however they will only survive as long as collectors/buyers attend and purchase knives.

Kevin said it perfectly. This the point I'm trying to make. Maybe, because of the internet, what worked in Kansas City 25 years ago, isn't working now. Regardless of whether a maker, due to competition for the customer, needs to sell out as quickly as possible, or whether the veteran show attendees are there mainly for camaraderie, a newcomer or a person who infrequently attends shows (like myself) who has an overall negative experience, will probably not attend the next available show.

In my opinion, pointing out problems with knife shows, or with anything else, is the first step towards developing solutions. Discussing the problems is the second step and the step that is so hard to accomplish on these forums or on any forums, from what I've seen.

I have not done a very good job expressing my opinions on this thread. Since I started it, I've flown across the country 4 times, have been tired and haven't had a lot of time. Anyway, I think the issue of selling before shows has valid points on all sides. I realize that Don Hanson makes knives for a living and he is at the show to get those knives sold. He has bills, a family that supports him and he to support them. I respect him and what he does, I've been in his shoes and I know what it's all about. I also believe a maker or purveyor has the absolute right to do whatever they want with whatever they make or own. "Pro-choice", if you will. However, here's how I see the overall situation. Sales go on before shows due to competition between makers for the finite number of buyers that will be attending that show. More specifically, for the finite number of dollars in the wallets of those buyers. The distinction is important, because when the "legal tender" runs out, the buyer is now a looker. The whole situation is actually driven by competition between makers, not competition between buyers. The show is getting choked from both ends. Buyers are frustrated and rightfully so. Some makers are, too. I have spoken with a few who have voiced this to me unsolicited. One aspect of a show involves selling knives to new customers and developing new collectors of your work. They don't want to sell out to the more or less same select crowd before the show. Those buyers are already customers. I'm not labeling right or wrong. I just think the situation, especially in the age of the internet, promotes negative growth, which in the end, hurts every maker, every purveyor and every collector. As a collector, as interest becomes more widespread, the value of my collection grows. And vice versa. This is where I'm coming from.

Steven, I do not mind answering your question and I apologize for taking so long. I've attended knife shows, since the early 90's on a regular but infrequent basis. Probably average 2 per year. Been to Solvang, Blade West a couple times, Chicago every year but this one, Reno a couple times, mostly small shows going on wherever I'm at. Tucson, Reno gun shows, Denver, Badger, Madison, whatever's easy. However, the vast majority of shows that I have attended have been car shows. I was carried (we didn't have a stroller) to probably my first few dozen. My dad and later myself, were not lookers. We bought cars, we sold cars. Mostly classics, as opposed to muscle cars. Later, I got into muscle cars and I have no idea how many I've owned. I don't know if this "counts" or gives me any credibility, but Kevin will tell you, a lot of things carry over into anything else you might collect.

Pete
 
Steven, I do not mind answering your question and I apologize for taking so long. I've attended knife shows, since the early 90's on a regular but infrequent basis. Probably average 2 per year. Been to Solvang, Blade West a couple times, Chicago every year but this one, Reno a couple times, mostly small shows going on wherever I'm at. Tucson, Reno gun shows, Denver, Badger, Madison, whatever's easy. Pete

Pete,

The reason that I asked is that the "right" show can have a major effect on how you feel about knife shows. If you make the effort to go to Blade in Atlanta, you would probably be much happier with shows, because of the vast number of makers competing for the dollar, and doing so well. If you use Blade West as a benchmark...well, it sucks...and there is no comparison. Every show I have been to that Dan Delavan has put on has been a winner, imo.

I agree with all of your thoughts, but keep coming back to the need(because of modern technology) to communicate with the maker of your desire and order knives to be delivered at the show...it makes the show better, and the face-to-face interaction is really what allows the maker to learn from you and you to learn from the maker.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
 
I'll go this next time. What the hell you doing up so early???

Pete

Wife is out of town, and I have to feed our cats, two of whom like to stand on my face until I wake up....I also went to the gym last night after a 3 week hiatus, and am.....very sore:o

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
 
After we traveled 800 miles to Chicago, paid ridiculous tolls, had three tables so we could offer all price ranges and makers to anybody who came and paid $300.00 for two nights in the hotel imagine my surprise when 50 people showed up. As I understand the posts I saw th other day, some people would rather stay home and post on the computer how bad a show was than actually go there and see what was available. I am new to the forum and have been a knife dealer for only a few years, but it is apparent to me and other dealers that if you want to sell knives you need to sell them at a price that is comparable to the maker's price. I find that the collectors that complain the most are the ones that expect a dealer discount from the maker without buying six or eight knives at a time. We had a good time at Chicago trading knives and buying knives from each other, but it really would have been a better time if there were actually more "collectors" than all the really good makers and dealers at the show. Half the fun of a show is getting to talk to people who appreciate quality knives the other half is paying the expenses incurred to get there with maybe a couple of bucks to buy replacement inventory. I found plenty to buy and trade for in Chicago just a large lack of people to sell to. I just needed to voice my opinion as I just started travelling long distances this year for shows and have been a little disappointed by the lack of interest in shows. Thank you internet.
 
Pete, very good thread you started, lot of great info here! This helps us makers understand the importance of shows and having knives on our tables.

For the record, I have always had knives available at shows when the doors open. But I always sell a few before the doors open, mama likes to know we're in the black:)

The last few years at Blade (The Show!) I had folks wanting to buy knives well before the show. So I worked harder and made more knives than planed, this way I was able to pre-sell a couple, sell a few early at the show and still have a few on my table for the opening bell. Works for me and as far as I know nobody was pissed... :)

I have never understood some of the 'big name' makers showing up with only one or two knives :confused: I also don't understand when a good maker sells most or all their inventory to dealers before the show opens, that really has me baffled!

Anyway, hope to see ya at 'The Show' next year... Lookin forward to it!
 
After we traveled 800 miles to Chicago, paid ridiculous tolls, had three tables so we could offer all price ranges and makers to anybody who came and paid $300.00 for two nights in the hotel imagine my surprise when 50 people showed up. As I understand the posts I saw th other day, some people would rather stay home and post on the computer how bad a show was than actually go there and see what was available. I am new to the forum and have been a knife dealer for only a few years, but it is apparent to me and other dealers that if you want to sell knives you need to sell them at a price that is comparable to the maker's price. I find that the collectors that complain the most are the ones that expect a dealer discount from the maker without buying six or eight knives at a time. We had a good time at Chicago trading knives and buying knives from each other, but it really would have been a better time if there were actually more "collectors" than all the really good makers and dealers at the show. Half the fun of a show is getting to talk to people who appreciate quality knives the other half is paying the expenses incurred to get there with maybe a couple of bucks to buy replacement inventory. I found plenty to buy and trade for in Chicago just a large lack of people to sell to. I just needed to voice my opinion as I just started travelling long distances this year for shows and have been a little disappointed by the lack of interest in shows. Thank you internet.

Welcome to BF.

I did the Chicago show for the first 5 years, had a great time and sold plenty of knives. But it was slowing down each year and with the big move downtown, I decided to pass the last two years. I did have high hopes for this show, but I guess it wasn't meant to be. Not just the internet on this one...
 
To be fair, Chicago shows -- let alone DOWNTOWN Chicago shows -- have inherent problems that likely aren't applicable to most other venues. If you do have a show in downtown Chicago, IMO, the number one rule is to run it on Saturday and Sunday, not Friday and Saturday. If you're "local," that trip into downtown (especially that deep into the Loop) can be an absolute nightmare on a weekday. Traffic is god-aweful, then you face the prospect of paying extremely extortionate parking rates, if you can even find parking at all.

I worked there for years, still quite often have to go there, and NEVER drive. It just isn't worth the hassle. So, you take public transportation, which is very crime-ridden, and only a fool would ride on certain lines carrying a bag with thousands of dollars worth of knives in it. Many people don't want to attend the last day of a show, for fear of slim pickings and exhibitors leaving early. If they have it again next year, and insist on holding it downtown, they need to run it over the weekend in order to attract more locals.

Exhibitors have similar problems. The hotel and meal costs are very high. You try to stay somewhere away from the Loop and travel in, braving all the logistical problems of carting your inventory back and forth, but renting a car, paying tolls, gas and extortionate parking rob you of any savings you may have gained -- not to mention the traffic, and the hassles involved in traveling in and out of O'Hare.

If they moved the show to a Sat-Sun format and held it south of but close to Midway Airport, which is much more convenient and less expensive for nearly everyone involved, it would do much better, IMO. It would certainly result in more locals showing up. Heck, even Rosemont (O'Hare) is a better alternative to the Loop.

From a purely personal standpoint, I pledge to attend even if it's held downtown, provided they make some effort to get at least a few forgers to participate. These are lean times, and they need to expand the range of knives and makers represented if they want to increase attendance. Even then, I would not expect "great" attendance. But, not having a Chicago show at all is a dangerous proposition for the knife world, as it's too big a potential market.

All just my own opinion, nothing verifiably "factual" about any of the above, outside of my promising to attend if they got a few ABS affiliates to participate.
 
HI Eden,

Welcome to the forum.

I am new to the forum and have been a knife dealer for only a few years, but it is apparent to me and other dealers that if you want to sell knives you need to sell them at a price that is comparable to the maker's price.

Interesting idea...I'll have to look into that tactic. :D
 
Perfect show for a knifemaker: Bring a boat-load of knives and sell out within 5 minutes of the doors opening. In fact, have customers 10 deep at your table when the show opens, waving wads of $100 bills and practically throwing them at you to get your attention. Ultimately, you manage to have the EXACT knife that EVERY customer wants and they shower you with praise as they pay for their "grail" knife. Sit at your table for the rest of the weekend with the words "You're the MAN" echoing in your head.

Perfect show for a customer: Show up at any time during the weekend, walk right up to their favorite knifemaker's table and find six or more of every model he has ever offered, in a variety of finishes, handle materials, and prices. Spend an hour fondling the knives (There is no one else at the maker's table!) and ultimately purchase exactly the knife they want. Proceed to the next maker on their list and do the same thing. And so on.

TOTALLY IMPOSSIBLE, of course........But, you get my point.

A more likely scenario is that the maker does not have as many knives as he would like to, does not have as many models/styles as he would have liked, and "guessed" at which knives to bring. Customers, in an effort to procure their "grail" knives, run-and-gun from table to table, hoping to get the knife they knew they wanted 3 months ago, but ultimately find they must either settle for something close to what they wanted (if they are "lucky") or find the maker is sold out. Frustrating? Yes.

At this year's BLADE SHOW, a member of this forum came by my table on Saturday afternoon. By then, my table was empty. He said "Hi, RJ. Can I see my knife now?"

I reached under the table and handed him a knife. It was exactly the knife he wanted, down to the smallest detail. He examined the knife, calmly and un-hurredly, smiled and paid me. We had a nice conversation, I wrote up his slip and we shook hands. A perfect transaction!

How was this possible? STeven Garsson had called me 2 months before the show and asked "What are you working on for BLADE?". He then described what he wanted, and asked if it might be possible for me to bring that knife to the show. I said "I can probably have that for you, unless I screw it up". He said something like "OK, please make it up. I'll see you at the show".

I didn't have to guess and he didn't have to be at my table waving $100 bills when the show opened. It's amazing how easy it is to sell a knife when you have exactly what your customer wants. Everyone is happy!

Sorry if this is long-winded. I intended it to be amusing. This works whether initiated by the customer or the maker, BTW.
 
"Perfect show for a customer: Show up at any time during the weekend, walk right up to their favorite knifemaker's table and find six or more of every model he has ever offered, in a variety of finishes, handle materials, and prices. Spend an hour fondling the knives (There is no one else at the maker's table!) and ultimately purchase exactly the knife they want. Proceed to the next maker on their list and do the same thing."

PERFECT!!! There's a hall right down the street from me that'll perfectly fit about the number of makers I'm interested in -- when can I show up? :D
 
At this year's BLADE SHOW, a member of this forum came by my table on Saturday afternoon. By then, my table was empty. He said "Hi, RJ. Can I see my knife now?"

I reached under the table and handed him a knife. It was exactly the knife he wanted, down to the smallest detail. He examined the knife, calmly and un-hurredly, smiled and paid me. We had a nice conversation, I wrote up his slip and we shook hands. A perfect transaction!

How was this possible? STeven Garsson had called me 2 months before the show and asked "What are you working on for BLADE?". He then described what he wanted, and asked if it might be possible for me to bring that knife to the show. I said "I can probably have that for you, unless I screw it up". He said something like "OK, please make it up. I'll see you at the show".

I didn't have to guess and he didn't have to be at my table waving $100 bills when the show opened. It's amazing how easy it is to sell a knife when you have exactly what your customer wants. Everyone is happy!

Happy doesn't even describe it. The Q36 with white mother of pearl scales fires like a rocket, and it was made specially for me by R.J. because his push button knifemaking machine was one the fritz that day, he actually had to hand make it:D...what is there to NOT be happy about?

Thanks again, amigo!

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
 
If the knives are priced HIGH ENOUGH there will always be knives on the table.. Just thinking.
A customer might be willing to pay a premium to get a better selection, not just the only thing that is left after the stampede. So where's the happy medium? If maker knows he'll probably sell out quickly, doesnt this affect his thoughts on prices, to some degree? (or no)

On the lottery how common are "shill" buyers recruited? Standard operation with large volume dealers?
 
Happy doesn't even describe it. The Q36 with white mother of pearl scales fires like a rocket, and it was made specially for me by R.J. because his push button knifemaking machine was one the fritz that day, he actually had to hand make it:D...what is there to NOT be happy about?Thanks again, amigo!

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson

NO PICTURE:D

Peter
 
Thanks, Don. There are a lot of business models out there, and every maker and dealer gets to pick (or create) their own model. This is the free market system, and is what makes America great. It is evident from this thread, and others like it, that this reality can ultimately cause customers to become frustrated.

Yet, often these are the same business models that customers accept in their daily lives. As an example, I get pissed off when my cable company offers discounts and free channels to new members but nothing to me, the long-term customer.

What is interesting is that, with custom knives, there are many more options for the customer to "direct" the transaction in a manner that works for them. This includes working with a maker, like STeven does, to arrange a delivery, but it also includes the ability of a customer to show a maker that they disapprove of the maker's business practices. In a relatively small community, it is really important to conduct one's business in a professional manner! Or at least it should be.

I have had customers complain to me that other makers sold a knife promised to that customer out from under them. I ask them how they handled the situation. They rarely tell me that they said "I will NEVER buy another knife of yours, EVER". Usually, they just get mad and walk away. And so, it continues. Not good for custom knives as a whole!

So many customers tell me it is the relationship with a maker/dealer that brings them to the table that I wonder how any successful maker/dealer could ignore this!

Les Robertson figured this out years ago, and, I have been grateful for his advice over the years. It's because of Les that you can buy a standard model RJ Martin knife from an authorized dealer at the same price that you would pay if you bought it directly from me. It seems to be working well for everyone.

Now, I am not saying that my way is better, or taking a shot at makers who use a different model. They are free to do as they wish, and the customers are free to do as they wish. No one ever put a gun to a customers head and made them pay a 50% premium for a knife! So, if they choose to pay that price, they don't get to complain.

Knowledge and communication are great tools. I love customers who ask questions, do research, have a critical eye. Customers that know the market. These are customers who become repeat customers!
 
At this year's BLADE SHOW, a member of this forum came by my table on Saturday afternoon. By then, my table was empty. He said "Hi, RJ. Can I see my knife now?"

I reached under the table and handed him a knife. It was exactly the knife he wanted, down to the smallest detail. He examined the knife, calmly and un-hurredly, smiled and paid me. We had a nice conversation, I wrote up his slip and we shook hands. A perfect transaction!

How was this possible? STeven Garsson had called me 2 months before the show and asked "What are you working on for BLADE?". He then described what he wanted, and asked if it might be possible for me to bring that knife to the show. I said "I can probably have that for you, unless I screw it up". He said something like "OK, please make it up. I'll see you at the show".

I'm not so sure there's many sought after knifemakers who will "arrange a delivery" of a specific knife to a show for "average Joe knife collector" who they don't know. Yes, high profile collectors (such as my friend STeven) do often get special treatment. Which is why some collectors are being "turned off" to shows and getting on maker's order list.

However, "average Joe" or the new collector can increase his/her odds of getting a knife from many "sought after" makers by calling them 4-6 weeks before the show introducing themselves, finding out what they plan to bring, finding exactly where their table is located and arriving early all in hopes of getting to their table before every knife is gone.
 
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I'm not so sure there's many sought after knifemakers who will "arrange a delivery" of a specific knife to a show for "average Joe knife collector" who they don't know. Yes, high profile collectors (such as my friend STeven) do often get special treatment. Which is why some collectors are being "turned off" to shows and getting on maker's order list.

Kevin, you never know until you ask. I wasn't always a "high profile collector"...was Average Joe for YEARS, even when I had my knife shop, and some people knew about it. IF you don't pick up the phone and ask the maker to deliver a knife at the show...you won't get a knife delivered at the show. Larry Fuegen delivered TWO knives to me at the AKI 18 months after I ordered them...that is right, 18 months.

The order was placed, and I happened to be going to the 2005 AKI, asked Larry to accommodate that, and didn't leave empty handed. When I placed that order with Larry, it was 2004, and was not on the radar screen very much at all. Being respectful and showing a sincere interest in the maker's work goes a long way in getting that maker to accommodate a delivery request....Larry didn't much know me from anyone in 2004.

You also have to know what you want.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
 
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