knife tests .com?

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I've heard of companies recalling products, but they are more or less forced to do that because the cost of repairs, lawsuits, etc. would be greater than the cost of simply recalling the product. I haven't really seen any company come out and say that their product is shoddy for no reason, though.


You're drawing conclusions from insufficient data and or from a source of one, you.


Maybe I didn't make it clear enough. By hype, I don't mean they simply advertise their product. I mean they exaggerate it a lot, like Cold Steel does. Hype could also be community driven, but in this case I'm talking about the manufacturer themselves. Sure I guess you could say every manufacturer "hypes" their product to an extent, but I'm really talking about over the top stuff.


Humorous. . . .you continually backtrack due to your inability to make your points clear.

When asked not to define "hype," you provide a mundane, extremely broad definition that could be applied to any advertising campaign. Once again, you point a finger, but provide no proof of your claim, as in this case, "Cold Steel's over the top stuff and exaggerations."



I know Cold Steel has been making videos for a while now, but I feel it is innovative that an actual customer/3rd party (not the company itself) is making the video. Not many of these videos are readily available on the net.


I suggest that you look up the definition of "innovation" or "innovative." Google can be your friend.


Yes, as a college student I know I should be evaluating the source. I personally feel an unedited video is valid enough for these purposes. I'm not writing a paper, I'm not citing sources, I'm watching for leisure and to see what the knives can go through. I don't think I need to check the author's credibility here unless there is massive editing or off camera work.


You missed the point completely.


If you want to dispute me, please tell me your opinions and set me straight. I'm very open to learning more. I don't think I've been clear enough with my explanations, but you've mainly been using ad hominem arguments. Unless you're going to actually give some useful input (like some examples, or your definitions) rather than attack me personally, I see no reason to continue this "discussion."


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I have yet to "attack" you. I have shown your inability to be specific and your reliance on broad generalizations. . . .something that you repeatedly admit to. I DO NOT believe that it's my place to provide you with definitions that are easily accessible via the Internet or by flipping through the pages of a hard- or softbound dictionary.

I've responded to your assertions, but you have yet to validate your position and claims by providing "examples."
 
You're drawing conclusions from insufficient data and or from a source of one, you.





Humorous. . . .you continually backtrack due to your inability to make your points clear.

When asked not to define "hype," you provide a mundane, extremely broad definition that could be applied to any advertising campaign. Once again, you point a finger, but provide no proof of your claim, as in this case, "Cold Steel's over the top stuff and exaggerations."






I suggest that you look up the definition of "innovation" or "innovative." Google can be your friend.





You missed the point completely.





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I have yet to "attack" you. I have shown your inability to be specific and your reliance on broad generalizations. . . .something that you repeatedly admit to. I DO NOT believe that it's my place to provide you with definitions that are easily accessible via the Internet or by flipping through the pages of a hard- or softbound dictionary.

I've responded to your assertions, but you have yet to validate your position and claims by providing "examples."
Again, if you believe my source isn't good enough, give me examples of a company that has willingly said it's product is not a good choice. I'm not talking about recalls, I'm talking about marketing. Show me an ad where a company badmouths their own product and I will concede that point.

I thought the example I gave, Cold Steel, pretty much summed it up. Sorry I made that assumption. I think "putting their product on a pedestal" was also a bit exaggerated, but you apparently didn't catch that either. I don't feel I need to explain Cold Steel's over the top marketing, because it is pretty well known here. But go to their site if you want to take a look at some of it. Dark Ops could be used as another example, as they are constantly ridiculed on this forum for their marketing methods.

I know exactly what innovative means, thanks. I feel his work is pretty new stuff, as I have never seen it before from a 3rd party. Please point out where I used it wrong.

What point did I miss? Wasn't that the point? I evaluated the source.

That is exactly what ad hominem argument is. Attacking a person's credibility, not the topic at hand. You seem to disagree with the definitions I have personally found to be in concordance with multiple dictionaries, so I am asking you for yours. You're right, I'm not stubborn enough to not admit when I make a mistake. Some things I should have made clearer, but some things I thought I made pretty clear and apparently did not. I guess I have to spell every little thing out for you.

It's like arguing with a 12 year old. "No I'm right, but I won't tell you why."
 
It's a shame you'd rather take the time and effort to make lame retorts instead of taking the various suggestions and advice to heart.

I'm done with ye


Are you joking? How much time have you devoted to simple flames and negative posts that don't do anything but show everyone your true nature?
 
Again, if you believe my source isn't good enough, give me examples of a company that has willingly said it's product is not a good choice. I'm not talking about recalls, I'm talking about marketing. Show me an ad where a company badmouths their own product and I will concede that point.

YOU have provided NO source, other than YOUR word !

YOU keep bring up Cold Steel, but YOU haven't provided a SINGLE piece of proof to back up YOUR allegations !

In other words, YOU, as a source, have ZERO weight !

PROOF #1:

A very renowned knife company experienced tolerance issues with a line of knives that had a certain lock installed. Said tolerance issues could cause the knife to unlock and possibly cause injury to their customers. Did they announce the problem to the world ? YES ! Did they replace the knives ? YES. Did it require government intervention ? NO ! Did it cost them a pretty penny ? VERY MUCH SO !

PROOF #2:

A very renowned knife company produced a line of knives. The issue. . . .the sheath. The owner "hated" the sheath and felt they "looked stupid." He made this known, publicly ! He also announced, publicly, that he would replace the sheaths at NO COST ! When it was done and over with, the company replaced 1,200 sheaths and those that purchased the knives were allowed to keep the sheath that came with the knife ! Cost ? BIG !

These two examples, and there are many more, are called business responsibilities. Let's see. . . . .I believe they also tap on ethical and moral principles, and commitment to integrity that were brought up in one of my previous posts.


Now, mouth. . . . .time for YOU to step to the plate !


I thought the example I gave, Cold Steel, pretty much summed it up. Sorry I made that assumption. I think "putting their product on a pedestal" was also a bit exaggerated, but you apparently didn't catch that either. I don't feel I need to explain Cold Steel's over the top marketing, because it is pretty well known here. But go to their site if you want to take a look at some of it. Dark Ops could be used as another example, as they are constantly ridiculed on this forum for their marketing methods.


Nothing more than BS generalizations from a nobody !

The only "example" that YOU'VE given about Cold Steel is they "put their product on a pedestal" and YOU believe it's "a bit exaggerated." :jerkit:

I don't care what "others" have said about Cold Steel or Dark Ops. I've owned several Cold Steel knives (never owned a Dark Ops blade). Have you ? This goes back to using an information evaluation criteria based on timeliness, authority, reliability, credibility, objectivity, and scope. Dayum, doesn't that sound familiar ? :jerkit:

PROVE YOUR POINT OF "EXAGGERATION" by providing specific examples !

Here's a little business world tidbit: Companies "putting their product on a pedestal" is NOT new !


I know exactly what innovative means, thanks. I feel his work is pretty new stuff, as I have never seen it before from a 3rd party. Please point out where I used it wrong.


While you may have the ability to read the definition, you lack the ability to apply it. Case in point, "Is pretty new stuff ?"
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Designing Kevlar is innovation.

Designing the liner lock and framelock for folders - - - - -> innovation.

Discovering a vaccine for polio is innovation.

Videotaping a so-called knife destruction test IS NOT innovative or innovation. Putting a BS twist that YOU have never heard or seen it done by a "third-party" DOES NOT make it innovative.
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Again, the only source, which is pretty shitty at this point, is YOU.
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It doesn't float !


You're right, I'm not stubborn enough to not admit when I make a mistake.


:jerkit:

Your problem is that you want to kick back and be spoon fed !

Your problem is that you believe yourself to be a valid source of information. This may be true, but rest assured. . . . .only in YOUR mind !

Your problem, like noss, is that you've made UNSUBSTAINTED claims and CONTINUE to blow BS.



There is an old saying, "Time to put up. . . . .or STFU." ;)
 
noss4's videos don't bother me at all. As far as I am concerned he is free to use, abuse and/or destroy any knife he wants.

What has led me to believe he is a moron is the manner in which he comports himself here and the sensationalism ("who will survive and what will be left of them?") with which he tries to drum up clicks on his web site. Not to mention the manner in which he has entirely disregarded nearly every person who has offered advice or pointed out flaws in his methodology only to continue to go on about how everyone is attacking him,almost as if he thinks what he is doing is in some way revolutionary and we are the old guard standing in his way.

Or the threatening emails.... or the apparent delusions about being threatened himself... and on and on. If he did his tests without the added idiocy displayed on this forum I imagine he wouldn't get even 1/10th of the negative responses he has thus far.

But then, in my opinion, thats the whole point of this little exercise for Noss4, just as I said before.

Pretty ironic, isn't it?
 
noss, don't even waste your time with the naysayers. Who cares what they think anyway? They're your knives. Do whatever the hell you want to them. Last time I checked this was America. Land of the free, right?
Yeah anyway.......
So when are you gonna test the Seal 2000? I've got one and I'm curious how far I could take that knife if I REALLY had to use.

I received the SOG Seal 2000 I should have it online before or after the first.
 
Gig:

I asked for examples of marketing where a company badmouthed their product. Those are recalls if I'm not mistaken, which is not really related to ads. I don't have examples, because what I'm saying is that companies don't put out ads that demean themselves.

Yes, I own several Cold Steel knives and I love them. Doesn't mean I can't think some of their marketing is a bit exaggerated. Such as their description of the Trail Master that, iirc, says it'll outperform 99% of other knives and most custom knives as well. I think that's exaggeration, even though my favorite fixed blade is my Trail Master.

In my opinion what he's doing is innovative. I don't think there is a fact here, just opinions. You think it's not, and that's fine with me. Link me to something that shows this kind of work. There aren't many, thus innovative. You may not think so because you group it with other sorts of established tests, I don't.

I don't want to be spoon fed, but I'd like to see where your arguments are coming from. I feel I've been nothing but mature in this discussion, but you simply won't cooperate. I'm done with you, you've pretty much proved my point that you are only using ad hominem attacks against me and I'm really not getting anything out of this. Go ahead and call me shitty, it's amazing that senior members can get away with this sort of crap. Smell ya later, bud. Have fun duking it out with the rest of these guys though.
 
I asked for examples of marketing where a company badmouthed their product. Those are recalls if I'm not mistaken, which is not really related to ads.


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You definitely know nothing about marketing ! It helps if you don't put the cart in front of the horse.

I've heard of companies recalling products, but they are more or less forced to do that because the cost of repairs, lawsuits, etc. would be greater than the cost of simply recalling the product.

In the first example, the company publicly announced problems with a line of knives. . . BEFORE the "recall." The company's first concern was public safety. Their public announcement published a negative aspect about a product they produced. Their second initiative was to "recall" the product. Absolutely no outside intervention. Of course, there are several reasons why a company would "recall" their product(s), but explaining that to you would be a waste of time.


I honestly can't fathom how you interpreted a "recall" in the second example. :rolleyes: Go back and read the example provided. I believe that I made it perfectly clear that the company's owner made it clear, publicly, that the sheath for a particular knife line "was not a good choice." Jesus H. Christ ! :rolleyes:

What did I say about the ability to read, but lacking the ability to apply what you've read ? Now I'll add the inability to comprehend what is written ! :jerkit:


Yes, I own several Cold Steel knives and I love them. Doesn't mean I can't think some of their marketing is a bit exaggerated. Such as their description of the Trail Master that, iirc, says it'll outperform 99% of other knives and most custom knives as well. I think that's exaggeration, even though my favorite fixed blade is my Trail Master.


See, that wasn't so hard ! :jerkit:

Here's the actual advertisement on their website. . . .

Cold Steel said:
Why buy a Trail Master®? That’s simple. Because it is, without a doubt, the most knife for the money ever commercially built! In terms of sharpness, edge holding and strength, it will out perform—by a wide margin—any factory made knife we know of and 99% of all hand forged knives as well! We know we’re “going out on a limb” with that statement, but since 1987 we have challenged the industry to make a better knife and yet, to this day, we’ve had no takers.

http://www.coldsteel.com/fixed-blades-trail-master-series.html

Maybe you can use your fanboy influence with noss and disprove their claim. :D Might be a slight financial burden, considering the number of production and custom knives that would have to be used in the comparative "testing."


In my opinion what he's doing is innovative. I don't think there is a fact here, just opinions. You think it's not, and that's fine with me. Link me to something that shows this kind of work. There aren't many, thus innovative. You may not think so because you group it with other sorts of established tests, I don't.


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By your own admission, in a number of your responses, you've proven that it's not "innovative."


Innovation: the introduction of new ideas, goods, services, and practices.

The operative word is "new." I'm sure you'll want someone to define that word for you also ! :jerkit:




You've done nothing but stumble through this thread with your generalizations, limited knowledge, and tap dancing. A freight train slamming you in the ass couldn't "set you straight."

See ya, smoke blower.
 
And all this has to do with the original post...how??

Maybe you boys oughta take it outside...or at least to W&C.;)
 
I think, that if Noss4 wants to gain some credibility for his "tests" he needs to take off the mask.

I fear that it is really that simple.

Edited to add: loseing the atitude wouldn't hurt either.
 
Why does every thread about knifetests.com turn into a zillion little flame wars? Gig, your tone is well past the border of a spirited defense of your position, and into personal flaming. You guys need to tone it down or take it off this thread.
 
Why does every thread about knifetests.com turn into a zillion little flame wars? Gig, your tone is well past the border of a spirited defense of your position, and into personal flaming. You guys need to tone it down or take it off this thread.


I guess you missed the "See ya" part.
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Gig:
I didn't thoroughly read your post as I was in a hurry (and the insults don't really help). I just skimmed through it so I didn't get all the details. I just saw "return" and figured "recall." I've never really seen a company do that, but I'll take your word for it. Let me ask you if this is a common occurence though, because I think this sort of admission is fairly rare. But thanks for letting me know. They both still sound like well disguised recalls to me (or things they wouldn't do unless they felt compelled to), but I'll concede that point to you as that would still fall under marketing. I was thinking more about ads, but it's still surprising that a company would make an announcement like that.

Regarding the Cold Steel example: I didn't think I needed to provide you with such a specific example since you didn't provide me any examples of what you were arguing about, but there you go. ;)

I still think his tests are innovative (not quite revolutionary though), because while the idea of taping is not new, the content of the tests are and that's sort of what I've been trying to get at (by giving you an example of what currently is out there). They are very different from the other tests I have seen. The closest thing I've seen on the net were a couple of videos Cliff made of him batoning a knife through wood. Noss does quite a few other things with the knife and doesn't stop until the knife stops. I'd call that new, or innovative (even if I didn't like it).

You've changed my mind about the marketing thing. I didn't think I'd ever see a manufacturer say something bad about their own product but you've shown me that it does happen and I appreciate it. Though I still believe it is a rather rare occurence. Do you concur?
Glad I can leave this thread with a little more knowledge, though. Thanks for clarifying, Gig.

P.S. It's much easier to read a post that isn't peppered with insults. I certainly wouldn't mind continuing the discussion in a civilized manner.
 
I've never really seen a company do that, but I'll take your word for it. Let me ask you if this is a common occurence though, because I think this sort of admission is fairly rare.


More than you can imagine or are willing to accept.


They both still sound like well disguised recalls to me (or things they wouldn't do unless they felt compelled to). . . .


You whine about being insulted, but you insult the fine reputation of two prominent knife manufacturers.

product recall: a request that a batch or an entire production run of a product be returned to the manufacturer.

For the third time, the second example was not a recall. Instead of going back to reread, I offer. . . .

PROOF #2:

A very renowned knife company produced a line of knives. The issue. . . .the sheath. The owner "hated" the sheath and felt they "looked stupid." He made this known, publicly ! He also announced, publicly, that he would replace the sheaths at NO COST ! When it was done and over with, the company replaced 1,200 sheaths and those that purchased the knives were allowed to keep the sheath that came with the knife !

:eek:

As you can plainly see, the people that received a knife, with the "less than acceptable" sheath, were able to keep the original sheath and said replacement. No where in the above quote relayed or hinted of any information where the consumer had to return or returned the product to the manufacturer. Thus, no "recall."

Of course, YMMV in the interpretation of what is in the print above.


Cliff Notes:

1. The owner of said company took it upon himself, without outside feedback or prompting, to address the problem that he perceived with the leather accessory that accompanied his product. . . . .a knife.

2. When comparing the financial loss (this well know knife manufacturing company is rather small and absorbing such a cost would be very painful) to customer satisfaction, the owner of the knife manufacturing company elected to take the financial loss.

3. Could the owner have let the 1,200 sheathes hit the market and not be bothered about the sheathes ? YES.

4. What actually occurred. . . . .the owner accepted responsibility, maintained focus on his consumers, and acted in what he thought was a moral and ethical manner.


Regarding the Cold Steel example: I didn't think I needed to provide you with such a specific example since you didn't provide me any examples of what you were arguing about, but there you go.

Hmmmm. . . .interesting twist.

I wasn't the one emphasizing a negative or derogatory claim against Cold Steel. Providing generalizations and refusing to provide specifics, several times, to support your claim aren't the generally accepted method of proving one's position.


I still think his tests are innovative (not quite revolutionary though), because while the idea of taping is not new, the content of the tests are and that's sort of what I've been trying to get at (by giving you an example of what currently is out there). They are very different from the other tests I have seen. The closest thing I've seen on the net were a couple of videos Cliff made of him batoning a knife through wood. Noss does quite a few other things with the knife and doesn't stop until the knife stops. I'd call that new, or innovative (even if I didn't like it).

Since you're having troubles with this speed bump, it generally helps to categorize innovations in a progressive hierarchy of ascending order. Innovation can be either radical, systems, or incremental.

A radical innovation is a major breakthrough that changes or creates whole industries. For example, xerography (invented in 1935 by Chester Carlson and became the hallmark of the Xerox Corp.), steam engines, and the internal combustion engine (which paved the way for today's automobile industry) fall into this category.

Systems innovation creates new functionality by assembling parts in new ways. For instance, the gasoline engine began as a radical innovation, but became a systems innovation when it was combined with the bicycle and carriage technology to create motorcycles and automobiles.

Incremental innovation continues technological improvements and extends the applications of radical and systems innovations. Several incremental innovations are often necessary to make radical and systems innovations work properly. For example, the development of the ball point pen would be considered a radical innovation, whereas the development of features such as retractable nib, multiple colors in one pen would be regarded as an incremental innovation. Other examples. . . .upgrades to software programs and most new mobile phones and new cars.

While much of the innovation taking place today is incremental, "destructive testing, batoning the spine of a knife through wood," and the multitude of noss' so-called testing is not new. Videotaping activities is not new.

Example: If my wife bears two children and I videotape their progress of crawling to walking. One could assert that it's innovative. *sigh* He or she would be in error. . . .even though the leaning process and progression is or may be different.



Well, I would like to continue the lesson, but I find the task repetitive, extremely agonizing, and laborious. On a positive note, be thankful that I'm not one of your college professors. . . .you would definitely end up retaking the course in the future and incur a substantial reduction in your GPA. ;)
 
Has anyone done before what noss is doing?
I think that is ehhhs whole point.

I think that we may still have a few home videos of me and my first knife, when I joined cub scouts at the age of 8. Same process really; open box, let the world know I've got a knife, slice paper, try and use it as a machete, stab things, pant and wheeze, cut some more things, stab some more, then end up with a broken knife. I guess one major difference is that I stopped breaking knives of any quality after that first "test."
 
I still hope to see noss test or destroy Rat-7. I do think he's a bit overreacting as Mike only posted his e-mail, not his home address. No one knows where he lives nor what he looks like (Jason mask:D ). However I also think some of you guys have lots of time on your hands to keep comming back here whine how you disaprove what noss is doing. Let the guy destroy what he wants. Everyone can get a camcorder and test their knives yet I don't see anyone doing it. I'd rather give credit to the guy who abuses his knives until they break than a bunch of whiners who keep theirs in a safe! Get a life folks :thumbup:
 
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