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The BladeForums.com 2024 Traditional Knife is ready to order! See this thread for details: https://www.bladeforums.com/threads/bladeforums-2024-traditional-knife.2003187/
Price is$300$250 ea (shipped within CONUS). If you live outside the US, I will contact you after your order for extra shipping charges.
Order here: https://www.bladeforums.com/help/2024-traditional/ - Order as many as you like, we have plenty.
knife tests .com?
- Thread starter MikePerrin
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GigOne
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I'm fully aware of ehhh's position, as it pertains to "innovation."
I guess one could argue that noss is or has employed some form of "process innovation." Again, that person would be in error.
noss,
I can't wait to see the Battle Mistress video. What kind of inovative, testing device did you use this time? My guess is a tank
BTW, when do you think you will post the show?
I am on the order list 8 to 12 weeks for the wait. I'm looking forward to the test.
I may have to use a tank on it from what I hear.
- Joined
- Feb 16, 2005
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I am on the order list 8 to 12 weeks for the wait. /QUOTE]
Great! I hoped that you already have the knive and are beating the **** out of him. However, the delay means that you will have enough time to further polish your tools of destruction, I mean testing equipment
I am on the order list 8 to 12 weeks for the wait. I'm looking forward to the test.
I may have to use a tank on it from what I hear.
In the meantime you should test the Dog Father from ScrapYard :thumbup:
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- Jan 18, 2007
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Thanks noss4 have purchased the Ka-bar 1277 after watching your Video. some of the testing methods are not that far off of what I had to use my knives for during my service in the U.S.M.C.
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- Jan 5, 2007
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- 543
After reading the first few pages, I will just say this...
I watched the vids, they made me laugh, they also showed me how tough some knives are... yes, most people don't put a knife in a vice and beat the hell outta it, but then again, this is a good way to show how strong the blade is.
True, the tests aren't all the same, but considering this is all self funded and he breaks the knives till they aren't worth using... I think that it serves its purpose...
PS - can't wait to see the battle mistress one! Just got mine!
I watched the vids, they made me laugh, they also showed me how tough some knives are... yes, most people don't put a knife in a vice and beat the hell outta it, but then again, this is a good way to show how strong the blade is.
True, the tests aren't all the same, but considering this is all self funded and he breaks the knives till they aren't worth using... I think that it serves its purpose...
PS - can't wait to see the battle mistress one! Just got mine!
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I will test your knives every day and let you know how they do. So, send me free knives. Thank you.
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Im gunna' keep asking it untill soemone gives me a coherent answer.
What the hell does performing tests that knives are never used for tell anyone about anything?
What the hell does performing tests that knives are never used for tell anyone about anything?
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- Nov 9, 2004
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well if you test something to failure, wether it is designed to do it or not, lets you know what you can expect from your knife and how far you can push it just in case the need ever arose.
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Knives ARE used for things very similar to the things I watched in noss4's destruction test.
I had a career in the U.S.Marine corps. during my service I had to use my knives for everything you can possibly imagine. shovel, pry bar, hammer, machete. I pried opened burning vehicle doors to get valuable equipment out. Bashed open crates of supples. and cut through walls of huts to search. In a far away jungle my Ka-bar is probably still in a rock wall where my squad used it as a step to clear it in fast order.
(IMHO) a knife has to be tough first, hold an edge second, and affordable third. Military pay isn't that great. I can resharpen a dull blade but I cant do a thing with a broken blade.
I carried three knives in combat zones, police actions, and five tours in places I'm still not supposed to talk about. A P.I. Bolo 18" long 3/8" thick made from a leaf spring. this knife has done it all.
U.S.M.C. Ka-bar, issued Not big enough to do most of what I needed it for. but strong and serviceable.
and last a Case stockman all the finesse work was done with this one.
even though I'll probably never put my knives through the same abuse as I have in the past I still hold them to the same criteria.
Oh gosh OK. I'll answer. It's all about possibilities vs probabilities.
Half of 'boys' want stuff that gets the job done and the other half want stuff that can do more than the job. Some of us want to fantasize about the possibilities, not the probabilities. It's about what the product can take before failing. The trouble is, stress testing has to be controlled to be meaningful and for real control, you need robots and a lab- not one guy and a cameraman. I also take exception to applying invalid parameters to certain products.
That means you have to compare Apples to Apples - the base parameters have to be the same or close to it across the board.Otherwise you can't form a valid conclusion regarding relative durability. This has all been said before. I doubt anyone is going to make informed buying decisions based on these amusing 'tests'.
Half of 'boys' want stuff that gets the job done and the other half want stuff that can do more than the job. Some of us want to fantasize about the possibilities, not the probabilities. It's about what the product can take before failing. The trouble is, stress testing has to be controlled to be meaningful and for real control, you need robots and a lab- not one guy and a cameraman. I also take exception to applying invalid parameters to certain products.
That means you have to compare Apples to Apples - the base parameters have to be the same or close to it across the board.Otherwise you can't form a valid conclusion regarding relative durability. This has all been said before. I doubt anyone is going to make informed buying decisions based on these amusing 'tests'.
Many already have. Your doubt is a little too late. I myself have made choices from simple product descriptions or from a simple review."NO ROBOTS" or simply because
I like the way a knife looks.
Cliff Stamp
BANNED
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- 17,562
1) Similar tests (bending, impacts, etc.) are used by many popular knife makers to demonstrate the superiority of their knives. I have yet to see anyone be overly hostile towards them, much yet complain about them in anywhere NEAR this volume.
2) Many tests are not actually directly task related, such as charpy (hit a knife with a big hammer), wear (grind a knife against a piece of steel) or corrosion (stick a knife in a salt spray for an hour). They are done to infer properties on tasks which load similar attributes.
The guy is having fun and providing some information to the public. If you feel it could be done better then offer some suggestions keeping in mind :
1) He isn't working for you so demands are kind of idiotic.
2) It is a hobby for him so he is going to do what is fun.
3) His information is better than your information if you are not giving anything.
-Cliff
Tests, Reviews, Editorial Reviews & Evaluations
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1) A test is a process by which a candidate is expected to perform tasks in a controlled scenario with controlled equipment so as to gauge performance against an established benchmark.
2) A professional review, (which may contain test results as a sub-component) involves subject matter expertise in the form of the professional opinion of one or more experts remarking on a products efficacy both with and without the benefit of empirical test results- relying heavily on past experience.
3) Editorial reviews- these are what most consumers actually see- they range from published press releases from a company's own marketing dept. , all the way to the personal opinions of writers. Editorial reviews are mostly claims.
3) An expert evaluation is similar to a test but does not involve test results. It relies on an assessment the product , from which a forecast or prediction of efficacy or performance can be deduced, based on heuristics alone. T3 is an example
So in the case of the casual knife stress tests, they are just that, casual stress tests. Because they lack the strict controls required for emipircal data gathering, they cannot be used as a RELATIVE measure of efficacy in comparing one blade to another. They are however, much more useful to the end-user, than say an editorial review alone or even heresay.
To cite some examples of valid consumer tests:
- Consumer Reports Labs automotive and appliance tests
- IKEA's product testing labs perform measured robotic testing of same-function products against each other.
- OSHA, CPSC etc. ( agencies that offer templates for documenting test measures)
Examples of Editorial reviews are pervasive enough to not require citation. They are everything that you read on websites and in printed periodicals heralding new products or rounding up products of related type or function.These reviews are what drive new product sales.
Examples of Professional evaluations are what I do daily. By applying predictive formulae or heuristics to a range of similar products we arrive at conclusions that can be as close to delivering actionable information as lab tests- without having to actually perform lab tests. Never rely only on evaluations, or test results alone. Try to combine data from both. Consumer Reports does this well.
Why the difference matters.
If the intended (advertised) purpose of a particular blade is to sever limbs, clear vines and dismember small game- then how does it's break strength in a casual vice test reflect on it's efficacy in the real intended task? The answer is it doesn't. However, the design of the blade, it's geometry,the grip design and edge do affect the end result. So by examining these factors and alluding to heuristics from known precedents, we can- without ever taking a blade out to the woods, come to meaningful conclusions about suitability and even performance expectations.
A good evaluation involves as much data as can be gathered by a team of people- rarely just one person. So ideally, some meaningful lab test results, combined with heuristic evaluation, combined with field testing combined with long term field testing (AKA Public Beta) will deliver meaningful and actionable information that consumers can use in making buying decisions.
Far more important questions than how many chops a blade takes to sever an 8" tree or how many cinder blocks it can hack through, before failing- is weather ease of sharpening is important and if so- how easy a blade is to sharpen- how much bearing does the whole knife's ergonomics have on user fatigue, stroke effectiveness and efficiency and most importantly, longevity. It's one thing to test a 'Survival' knife's efficacy as a lever for 5 minutes and another to draw a conclusion about how well it will survive a year on a dessert island.
Lastly- there's the thorny issue of due dilligence.
Someone has to overlook tests and evaluations and act as a proctor to ensure that data isn't being fudged.
The best proctor is an unedited movie-no doubt about that. We've been making them for years and always have them available for clients to view. An underwritten and edited for brevity 'short' is also sufficient.
----------------------------------
1) A test is a process by which a candidate is expected to perform tasks in a controlled scenario with controlled equipment so as to gauge performance against an established benchmark.
2) A professional review, (which may contain test results as a sub-component) involves subject matter expertise in the form of the professional opinion of one or more experts remarking on a products efficacy both with and without the benefit of empirical test results- relying heavily on past experience.
3) Editorial reviews- these are what most consumers actually see- they range from published press releases from a company's own marketing dept. , all the way to the personal opinions of writers. Editorial reviews are mostly claims.
3) An expert evaluation is similar to a test but does not involve test results. It relies on an assessment the product , from which a forecast or prediction of efficacy or performance can be deduced, based on heuristics alone. T3 is an example
So in the case of the casual knife stress tests, they are just that, casual stress tests. Because they lack the strict controls required for emipircal data gathering, they cannot be used as a RELATIVE measure of efficacy in comparing one blade to another. They are however, much more useful to the end-user, than say an editorial review alone or even heresay.
To cite some examples of valid consumer tests:
- Consumer Reports Labs automotive and appliance tests
- IKEA's product testing labs perform measured robotic testing of same-function products against each other.
- OSHA, CPSC etc. ( agencies that offer templates for documenting test measures)
Examples of Editorial reviews are pervasive enough to not require citation. They are everything that you read on websites and in printed periodicals heralding new products or rounding up products of related type or function.These reviews are what drive new product sales.
Examples of Professional evaluations are what I do daily. By applying predictive formulae or heuristics to a range of similar products we arrive at conclusions that can be as close to delivering actionable information as lab tests- without having to actually perform lab tests. Never rely only on evaluations, or test results alone. Try to combine data from both. Consumer Reports does this well.
Why the difference matters.
If the intended (advertised) purpose of a particular blade is to sever limbs, clear vines and dismember small game- then how does it's break strength in a casual vice test reflect on it's efficacy in the real intended task? The answer is it doesn't. However, the design of the blade, it's geometry,the grip design and edge do affect the end result. So by examining these factors and alluding to heuristics from known precedents, we can- without ever taking a blade out to the woods, come to meaningful conclusions about suitability and even performance expectations.
A good evaluation involves as much data as can be gathered by a team of people- rarely just one person. So ideally, some meaningful lab test results, combined with heuristic evaluation, combined with field testing combined with long term field testing (AKA Public Beta) will deliver meaningful and actionable information that consumers can use in making buying decisions.
Far more important questions than how many chops a blade takes to sever an 8" tree or how many cinder blocks it can hack through, before failing- is weather ease of sharpening is important and if so- how easy a blade is to sharpen- how much bearing does the whole knife's ergonomics have on user fatigue, stroke effectiveness and efficiency and most importantly, longevity. It's one thing to test a 'Survival' knife's efficacy as a lever for 5 minutes and another to draw a conclusion about how well it will survive a year on a dessert island.
Lastly- there's the thorny issue of due dilligence.
Someone has to overlook tests and evaluations and act as a proctor to ensure that data isn't being fudged.
The best proctor is an unedited movie-no doubt about that. We've been making them for years and always have them available for clients to view. An underwritten and edited for brevity 'short' is also sufficient.
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