Knife you could rely on for survival

Higgs Particle steel said:
It was muddy environment, misting, and obviously humid. I knew it was going to rain. The knife was in use to carve and notch pieces of wood to make a lean to this was over the period of a couple hours tops. I was laying it on the ground between working. I was mainly using the belly to carve and cut rope. It rusted on the edge in a few spots between the belly and the guard. I put a bunch of gear covered in trash bags under the the construct I made and hung a tarp next to it where I stood and smoked cigarettes wtih a poncho on. It wasnt a big deal, I had other tools / knives but I didnt get the rust off until I got back to our friends house who we were staying at. This was in late spring 2011.

This next part isnt directed toward you.

it can be muddy, its wet, it rains, we cant control that. The wood is wet, the ground is wet, the leaves are wet. You cant really wipe down your knife after every use if working with it to build things. No it wont rust where you are using it. It can absolutely rust in other places. Sure you wipe it off, if its wet, what if there is a downpoor and your clothes are wet youre basically wiping it off with wet clothes. These scenarios can happen.

I honestly wonder what in the hell people are thinking or talking about with all this rhetoric for the past several pages. Its absolutely ridiculous to argue with these statements. Quote me and talk shit, make a thread about me. Embellish and exaggerate what I have said and then act like theres no conceivable way that carbon steel can rust.

I dont think anyone ever has actually been like "yeah my carbon steel knife never rusts, it just cant rust you just use it, its fine, patina." This is what i read, over and over, and over. This is why I think people are either being stupid, fanboying, or either they are simply inexperienced.

Jeff Randall profits off of stupid marketing yet his words are not dissimilar to mine:

"JR: We don't. Carbon steels have been used to sustain life and wage war for a long, long time. It works, so why change it? The villagers and indigenous tribes of the Amazon use carbon steel every day to sustain themselves. They sharpen their knives on flat rocks and could care less about perfect edge angles, aesthetics or whether it's the latest fashion trend in steel.

The only downfall to carbon steels is they will rust pretty quickly. And, while that doesn't bother us since it wears off with use and patinas up nicely, some folks are anal about keeping their knives pristine. So, we are answering that by coming out with a stainless steel line of knives.

Me? I'll still be carrying carbon since it's easy to sharpen in the field and simply works for everything with a lot cheaper price tag. ESEE build simple, ugly knives that work."

Now for the rainforest tribe smartasses. Tribe equals more than one. You dont have one knife. Youre not by yourself. You have tools. You have the strength of a freaking tribe. Youre indigenous and you know your shit. It doesnt matter if youve been outfitted by US knife manufacturers or not.

SERE school is where you try to delay capture and then eventually get your ass beaten to to avoid giving out information. If youre packing an ESEE 5 it doesnt fucking matter. Youre not out there for wilderness living, youre out there as part of a controlled war game. Jeff Randall knows what hes doing. Ill call this out. Get over it. Its unimportant bullshit.

This has turned into one of the more humorous / pathetic debates I think Ive ever participated in. I admit Im totally not shocked that its taking place here. Its the same five or so guys. Then you have the hivemind effect going on. Someone reads these statements and adds their piece. "Yeah man carbon steel is all good just use it."

The past five pages is just a huge face palm. There is an argument over something that is not that uncommon as far as rusting carbon steel. But right now, right here in this thread its a non issue, its nothing to think about.

The whole premise is bizarre as hell to me. Im not spending anymore time attempting to explain shit or reason with people possessing an IQ of 83. Reasonable people will agree or disagree, the same five guys can go circle jerk. Its almost like people are afraid that the keyboard mountain man status theyve worked to build up is at risk and the only way to save it is to just say stupid shit.

Im gonna go buy some knives. I like those Busse Park Rangers. INFI has 7-8% chromium. He must be a modern fool to use such an alloy...

Jackasses
Click to expand...

You're reading way more into what people are saying about carbon steel, nobody is saying it doesn't rust but there are plenty of people who take their carbon-steeled knives out into the wet, muddy woods for multiple days and haven't had any rust issues with their blades.

I have used my carbon-steeled blades out in the wet woods during downpours, where everything you want to process with a knife is wet. I have had my axe rust from being stuck in a stump for less than an hour because of all the moisture in the wood. I have yet to have my knives form rust when I've been out for multiple days, I'm not saying they won't rust but I am saying I have yet to have them rust, which means that your statements about fast and unavoidable rust formation do not stand up to what I've experienced in person.

As for everything being wet, what's funny is that I actually have gear specifically for that extra-rainy weather like tarps and waterproof clothing so ultimately I stay dry on the inside, for multiple days at a time. Just because you can imagine a scenario as such does not mean that that is what happens to everybody.

As for the name-calling, there's another subforum for that that you certainly know about, but here in GD we don't cuss or name-call so that discussions can stay untainted.
 
Higgs Particle steel said:
It was muddy environment, misting, and obviously humid. I knew it was going to rain. The knife was in use to carve and notch pieces of wood to make a lean to this was over the period of a couple hours tops. I was laying it on the ground between working. I was mainly using the belly to carve and cut rope. It rusted on the edge in a few spots between the belly and the guard. I put a bunch of gear covered in trash bags under the the construct I made and hung a tarp next to it where I stood and smoked cigarettes wtih a poncho on. It wasnt a big deal, I had other tools / knives but I didnt get the rust off until I got back to our friends house who we were staying at. This was in late spring 2011.

This next part isnt directed toward you.

it can be muddy, its wet, it rains, we cant control that. The wood is wet, the ground is wet, the leaves are wet. You cant really wipe down your knife after every use if working with it to build things. No it wont rust where you are using it. It can absolutely rust in other places. Sure you wipe it off, if its wet, what if there is a downpoor and your clothes are wet youre basically wiping it off with wet clothes. These scenarios can happen.

I honestly wonder what in the hell people are thinking or talking about with all this rhetoric for the past several pages. Its absolutely ridiculous to argue with these statements. Quote me and talk shit, make a thread about me. Embellish and exaggerate what I have said and then act like theres no conceivable way that carbon steel can rust.

I dont think anyone ever has actually been like "yeah my carbon steel knife never rusts, it just cant rust you just use it, its fine, patina." This is what i read, over and over, and over. This is why I think people are either being stupid, fanboying, or either they are simply inexperienced.

Jeff Randall profits off of stupid marketing yet his words are not dissimilar to mine:

"JR: We don't. Carbon steels have been used to sustain life and wage war for a long, long time. It works, so why change it? The villagers and indigenous tribes of the Amazon use carbon steel every day to sustain themselves. They sharpen their knives on flat rocks and could care less about perfect edge angles, aesthetics or whether it's the latest fashion trend in steel.

The only downfall to carbon steels is they will rust pretty quickly. And, while that doesn't bother us since it wears off with use and patinas up nicely, some folks are anal about keeping their knives pristine. So, we are answering that by coming out with a stainless steel line of knives.

Me? I'll still be carrying carbon since it's easy to sharpen in the field and simply works for everything with a lot cheaper price tag. ESEE build simple, ugly knives that work."

Now for the rainforest tribe smartasses. Tribe equals more than one. You dont have one knife. Youre not by yourself. You have tools. You have the strength of a freaking tribe. Youre indigenous and you know your shit. It doesnt matter if youve been outfitted by US knife manufacturers or not.

SERE school is where you try to delay capture and then eventually get your ass beaten to to avoid giving out information. If youre packing an ESEE 5 it doesnt fucking matter. Youre not out there for wilderness living, youre out there as part of a controlled war game. Jeff Randall knows what hes doing. Ill call this out. Get over it. Its unimportant bullshit.

This has turned into one of the more humorous / pathetic debates I think Ive ever participated in. I admit Im totally not shocked that its taking place here. Its the same five or so guys. Then you have the hivemind effect going on. Someone reads these statements and adds their piece. "Yeah man carbon steel is all good just use it."

The past five pages is just a huge face palm. There is an argument over something that is not that uncommon as far as rusting carbon steel. But right now, right here in this thread its a non issue, its nothing to think about.

The whole premise is bizarre as hell to me. Im not spending anymore time attempting to explain shit or reason with people possessing an IQ of 83. Reasonable people will agree or disagree, the same five guys can go circle jerk. Its almost like people are afraid that the keyboard mountain man status theyve worked to build up is at risk and the only way to save it is to just say stupid shit.

Im gonna go buy some knives. I like those Busse Park Rangers. INFI has 7-8% chromium. He must be a modern fool to use such an alloy...

Jackasses
Click to expand...
Nobody will miss you when you leave. Whatever charm school you attended did a very poor job.

Your angry spewing is based on fallacious reasoning. Your key argument assumes that the only people who advocate using decent Carbon Steel knives in wet environments are drone like disciples of the likes of Becker or Randall; this is just idiocy. Also, it in no way proves any of your ludicrous assertions about the extent to which carbon steels will rust in very short spaces of time.

The appeal to Randall is also fallacious, by the way: it is an appeal to authority. Happily it is not actually needed, because there are dozens of users here who do indeed use Carbon Steel in very wet environments without them rusting in half a day or even weeks.

You talked a load of rubbish, you got called out on it, now you are hopping mad. I get it. So, take it like a man and grow up.
 
Higgs Particle steel said:
It was muddy environment, misting, and obviously humid. I knew it was going to rain. The knife was in use to carve and notch pieces of wood to make a lean to this was over the period of a couple hours tops. I was laying it on the ground between working. I was mainly using the belly to carve and cut rope. It rusted on the edge in a few spots between the belly and the guard. I put a bunch of gear covered in trash bags under the the construct I made and hung a tarp next to it where I stood and smoked cigarettes wtih a poncho on. It wasnt a big deal, I had other tools / knives but I didnt get the rust off until I got back to our friends house who we were staying at. This was in late spring 2011.

This next part isnt directed toward you.

it can be muddy, its wet, it rains, we cant control that. The wood is wet, the ground is wet, the leaves are wet. You cant really wipe down your knife after every use if working with it to build things. No it wont rust where you are using it. It can absolutely rust in other places. Sure you wipe it off, if its wet, what if there is a downpoor and your clothes are wet youre basically wiping it off with wet clothes. These scenarios can happen.

I honestly wonder what in the hell people are thinking or talking about with all this rhetoric for the past several pages. Its absolutely ridiculous to argue with these statements. Quote me and talk shit, make a thread about me. Embellish and exaggerate what I have said and then act like theres no conceivable way that carbon steel can rust.

I dont think anyone ever has actually been like "yeah my carbon steel knife never rusts, it just cant rust you just use it, its fine, patina." This is what i read, over and over, and over. This is why I think people are either being stupid, fanboying, or either they are simply inexperienced.

Jeff Randall profits off of stupid marketing yet his words are not dissimilar to mine:

"JR: We don't. Carbon steels have been used to sustain life and wage war for a long, long time. It works, so why change it? The villagers and indigenous tribes of the Amazon use carbon steel every day to sustain themselves. They sharpen their knives on flat rocks and could care less about perfect edge angles, aesthetics or whether it's the latest fashion trend in steel.

The only downfall to carbon steels is they will rust pretty quickly. And, while that doesn't bother us since it wears off with use and patinas up nicely, some folks are anal about keeping their knives pristine. So, we are answering that by coming out with a stainless steel line of knives.

Me? I'll still be carrying carbon since it's easy to sharpen in the field and simply works for everything with a lot cheaper price tag. ESEE build simple, ugly knives that work."

Now for the rainforest tribe smartasses. Tribe equals more than one. You dont have one knife. Youre not by yourself. You have tools. You have the strength of a freaking tribe. Youre indigenous and you know your shit. It doesnt matter if youve been outfitted by US knife manufacturers or not.

SERE school is where you try to delay capture and then eventually get your ass beaten to to avoid giving out information. If youre packing an ESEE 5 it doesnt fucking matter. Youre not out there for wilderness living, youre out there as part of a controlled war game. Jeff Randall knows what hes doing. Ill call this out. Get over it. Its unimportant bullshit.

This has turned into one of the more humorous / pathetic debates I think Ive ever participated in. I admit Im totally not shocked that its taking place here. Its the same five or so guys. Then you have the hivemind effect going on. Someone reads these statements and adds their piece. "Yeah man carbon steel is all good just use it."

The past five pages is just a huge face palm. There is an argument over something that is not that uncommon as far as rusting carbon steel. But right now, right here in this thread its a non issue, its nothing to think about.

The whole premise is bizarre as hell to me. Im not spending anymore time attempting to explain shit or reason with people possessing an IQ of 83. Reasonable people will agree or disagree, the same five guys can go circle jerk. Its almost like people are afraid that the keyboard mountain man status theyve worked to build up is at risk and the only way to save it is to just say stupid shit.

Im gonna go buy some knives. I like those Busse Park Rangers. INFI has 7-8% chromium. He must be a modern fool to use such an alloy...

Jackasses
Click to expand...
You might want to watch your language, this is a family friendly forum.
 
I think this whole debate was against the assertion that carbon steel will rust detrimentally to the point of uselessness in a short period of time, making it a poor choice for a knife to rely on for survival. This just simply isn't the case and many here do not want that sort of assertion to stand unchallenged.
 
danbot said:
I think this whole debate was against the assertion that carbon steel will rust detrimentally to the point of uselessness in a short period of time, making it a poor choice for a knife to rely on for survival. This just simply isn't the case and many here do not want that sort of assertion to stand unchallenged.
Click to expand...
That is it, in a nutshell. :thumbsup:
 
Higgs Particle steel said:
It was muddy environment, misting, and obviously humid. I knew it was going to rain. The knife was in use to carve and notch pieces of wood to make a lean to this was over the period of a couple hours tops. I was laying it on the ground between working. I was mainly using the belly to carve and cut rope. It rusted on the edge in a few spots between the belly and the guard. I put a bunch of gear covered in trash bags under the the construct I made and hung a tarp next to it where I stood and smoked cigarettes wtih a poncho on. It wasnt a big deal, I had other tools / knives but I didnt get the rust off until I got back to our friends house who we were staying at. This was in late spring 2011.

This next part isnt directed toward you.

it can be muddy, its wet, it rains, we cant control that. The wood is wet, the ground is wet, the leaves are wet. You cant really wipe down your knife after every use if working with it to build things. No it wont rust where you are using it. It can absolutely rust in other places. Sure you wipe it off, if its wet, what if there is a downpoor and your clothes are wet youre basically wiping it off with wet clothes. These scenarios can happen.

I honestly wonder what in the hell people are thinking or talking about with all this rhetoric for the past several pages. Its absolutely ridiculous to argue with these statements. Quote me and talk shit, make a thread about me. Embellish and exaggerate what I have said and then act like theres no conceivable way that carbon steel can rust.

I dont think anyone ever has actually been like "yeah my carbon steel knife never rusts, it just cant rust you just use it, its fine, patina." This is what i read, over and over, and over. This is why I think people are either being stupid, fanboying, or either they are simply inexperienced.

Jeff Randall profits off of stupid marketing yet his words are not dissimilar to mine:

"JR: We don't. Carbon steels have been used to sustain life and wage war for a long, long time. It works, so why change it? The villagers and indigenous tribes of the Amazon use carbon steel every day to sustain themselves. They sharpen their knives on flat rocks and could care less about perfect edge angles, aesthetics or whether it's the latest fashion trend in steel.

The only downfall to carbon steels is they will rust pretty quickly. And, while that doesn't bother us since it wears off with use and patinas up nicely, some folks are anal about keeping their knives pristine. So, we are answering that by coming out with a stainless steel line of knives.

Me? I'll still be carrying carbon since it's easy to sharpen in the field and simply works for everything with a lot cheaper price tag. ESEE build simple, ugly knives that work."

Now for the rainforest tribe smartasses. Tribe equals more than one. You dont have one knife. Youre not by yourself. You have tools. You have the strength of a freaking tribe. Youre indigenous and you know your shit. It doesnt matter if youve been outfitted by US knife manufacturers or not.

SERE school is where you try to delay capture and then eventually get your ass beaten to to avoid giving out information. If youre packing an ESEE 5 it doesnt fucking matter. Youre not out there for wilderness living, youre out there as part of a controlled war game. Jeff Randall knows what hes doing. Ill call this out. Get over it. Its unimportant bullshit.

This has turned into one of the more humorous / pathetic debates I think Ive ever participated in. I admit Im totally not shocked that its taking place here. Its the same five or so guys. Then you have the hivemind effect going on. Someone reads these statements and adds their piece. "Yeah man carbon steel is all good just use it."

The past five pages is just a huge face palm. There is an argument over something that is not that uncommon as far as rusting carbon steel. But right now, right here in this thread its a non issue, its nothing to think about.

The whole premise is bizarre as hell to me. Im not spending anymore time attempting to explain shit or reason with people possessing an IQ of 83. Reasonable people will agree or disagree, the same five guys can go circle jerk. Its almost like people are afraid that the keyboard mountain man status theyve worked to build up is at risk and the only way to save it is to just say stupid shit.

Im gonna go buy some knives. I like those Busse Park Rangers. INFI has 7-8% chromium. He must be a modern fool to use such an alloy...

Jackasses
Click to expand...
Cigs for survival. Then staying at a house. The contradictions are amazing.
 
Rhinoknives1 said:
I’m not an expert on these but the later ones I think may be? Still whatever the Steel is in the older ones is rumored to be what CS copied for their Trail Master etc. a good steel Carbon or SS..
Click to expand...

I don't know if the steel Camillus used for the CS knives is a copy of what Western and Coleman/Western used, but since Camillus bought the assets of Western from the businessmen who bought it from Coleman, it's very possible that the steel Camillus used was the same.

It doesn't matter if the W49 is a Western 60s/70s/80s version or a Coleman/Western version from the 80s, it's the same steel -same composition, same heat treatment, same workers in the same facilities. The Camillus made W49s may have had a different steel formula, but definitely had different people, heat treatment and facilities.

A Camillus version will have a 2 line stamp

WESTERN
over
W49 USA
 
Last edited:
danbot said:
I think this whole debate was against the assertion that carbon steel will rust detrimentally to the point of uselessness in a short period of time, making it a poor choice for a knife to rely on for survival. This just simply isn't the case and many here do not want that sort of assertion to stand unchallenged.
Click to expand...
They do . Once , while I was on three day fishing I leave my carbon knife stuck in the ground .It was raining all night and when I pull knife there was only handle , blade disintegrated .........:eek: and then , the alarm on my fishing rod wake me UP ;)
 
craytab said:
Usually a good idea to heed the warning from a mod.

On that note, some knives I would be fine surviving with:
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Click to expand...

Are those all yours?
 
zzyzzogeton said:
I don't know if the steel Camillus used for the CS knives is a copy of what Western and Coleman/Western used, but since Camillus bought the assets of Western from the businessmen who bought it from Coleman, it's very possible that the steel Camillus used was the same.

It doesn't matter if the W49 is a Western 60s/70s/80s version or a Coleman/Western version from the 80s, it's the same steel -same composition, same heat treatment, same workers in the same facilities. The Camillus made W49s may have had a different steel formula, but definitely had different people, heat treatment and facilities.

A Camillus version will have a 2 line stamp

WESTERN
over
USA W49
Click to expand...
OK,
The NIB WW49 Bowie I have says Western Cutlery Co PO Box 247 Warners NY 13164 on the Box and has
WESTERN
W49 USA On the Stamp, So which maker do you think this one is??
 
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