Knifetests.com-whats YOUR opinion

[Guyon]

Hmmmm, if THBL sometimes uses the wrong tool for the job, I wonder if some military or first responder types also use their knife to do things outside of the THBL Designated Use Parameters, that would be interesting to find out.

THBL you might want to edit the post above, changing a quote isn't allowed outside of W&C

TNYD must think that most all BFC users are First Responders and that they're the ones weighing in here in favor of Noss. I'm afraid I'm going to need to see some credentials. TNYD may also use his toothbrush to clean things that are better left to something with a longer handle.

TNYD continues to evade my question about the review and whether it suggested that multi-tools should be able to clip rebar.

And thanks for the heads-up! Never seen that one codified. :thumbup:

 

[Guyon]

That was pretty low. I doubt "fixing" other people's quotes is a welcome practice. You run out of other stunts?

Post edited. You're welcome to read the revised version, though it conveys the exact same thing.

Gator97 might be reminded that I'm not the person constantly using the pronoun "you" in an accusatory fashion.

Hmmmm, if THBL sometimes uses the wrong tool for the job, I wonder if some military or first responder types also use their knife to do things outside of the THBL Designated Use Parameters, that would be interesting to find out.

I guess, by TNYD's logic, the only people who should really be interested in TGHM's reviews, are "operators" in the field. Is that the case?

.

 

[theonew]

Dang, the rules here are so complicated, now apparently unless you are bona fide military or first responder, you are not allowed to have the opinion that knife toughness outside of the THBL Designated Use Parameters might matter to some folks.

 

[Guyon]

Dang, the rules here are so complicated, now apparently unless you are a bona fide military or first responder, you are not allowed to have the opinion that knife toughness outside of the THBL Designated Use Parameters might matter to some folks.

Maybe there should be a TNYD sticky as mentioned before. People need clarity, and TNYD appears ready to deliver.

Well, not really so much... but it's still a fun game to imagine people are using their knives as automotive jacks.

 

[Gator97]

Post edited. You're welcome to read the revised version, though it conveys the exact same thing.

It's not the same as misquoting, but at least you edited out.

As for the point a in your post, I explained 100 times what and why, so what's the use doing it again.

b) I, on the other hand assume that the knife community might be better served by thoughtful and methodical knife testing...

You are assuming bunch of other things along with that, and while the idea of thoughtful and methodical testing is just fine, the rest of your ideas about policing and deciding for others what to do, are not quite as popular.

 

[Guyon]

I like how TNYD's euphemism for common sense usage forms a useful acronym...

Designated Usage Parameters.

Perfect for what TNYD is trying to pull over our eyes.

 

[Guyon]

It's not the same as misquoting, but at least you edited out.

In the spirit of vigorous debate, I went afield of fair play. I do apologize.






Waitaminute... We're not in W&C?

 

[WalterDavis]

What you are describing is a deliberate lie and misinformation, hence you'd have to have a good evidence that Noss is doing that. And I am sure makers would've taken the action, if that was a case.


I think you over estimate his influence in general. And again, what evidence do you have that he is doctoring his tests, or deliberately misleading someone? Do you mean those broken knives can not be broken again with the same methods?

Gator, I edited out a couple of those responses that are I felt are the things we're just going to have to agree to disagree on:thumbup: I can't say that I don't see what you're saying, I just have to say that I think for the the 'tests' are found lacking as far as being actual tests. Great stunts:thumbup: Poor tests:thumbdn: I think Noss does a disservice to the knife industry in general, not necessarily with what he's doing, but with how doing it.

The above quotes, though, I did want to touch on. I don't know (and am not accusing so) that Noss is doctoring any results, and he may be doing every test as accurately as possible-he could be a hammerin' machine and his tests may be virtually identical to what a machine would do, rest breaks not withstanding But that's why people ask for hard data and reproduceable (sp?) conditions-so you can go beyond the tests and look at the results. But a 'test' is only as good as its controls and input. "Garbage in gets garbage out" and all that.

And it doesn't have to be malicious or intentional. Heck, could be a dumb coincidence like one maker's knives get tested after a good night's rest and waking up with a ton of energy while another maker's test happens after a good long night out with friends, and the hammer's movin' at half speed all day
But I haven't seen anything that tells me Noss would care at all one way or another, as long as it brings him some attention. And it's not his reputation he's playing with, so why would it matter to him?

He may not be selling you something in the literal sense of the word, but he's putting on a show. It's like Mythbusters with more knives and masks, and less Kari

 

[dl351]

For some strange reason, I keep reading these posts in this thread. I still contend that the tests can be misleading unless all you care about is toughness. I say this because there are knives that were "tested" which broke somewhat early in the tests. I know for a fact that these knives are harder than some other knives that were "tested" that received higher ratings. For example, some deem the CRK's junk because the Chinese knock off took more beatings to break. Unless toughness alone defines a good knife, this conclusion is, in my opinion, wrong. Why? Because on average, the CRK is three points harder on the Rockwell C scale than its Chinese counterpart. This means the Chinese piece has more of a spring temper which will take a beating, but won't hold an edge as long. I have verified this with manufacturers. All this aside, even I'd consider the Chinese knife as a purchase because of the price. It might make a decent beater knife. Do I think it's better than the CRK? No. Then again, I don't think toughness is the most important aspect of a knife.

Oh, and gator, maybe some clarification is needed, but if "we're all equal here in terms of rights to speak," why is it so bad to think that more knowledgeable people should share their knowledge with youngsters in the knife world? Honestly, I feel like if I try to recommend anything in this thread, I get told something along the lines of "what makes you so high and mighty to think you can tell newbies that you know better than them." For one, I've been a newbie. I've gone through the whole phase of wanting knives that never need to be sharpened and can chop through concrete. Having gone through that, I would like to share what I've learned and decided is important. If they don't like it, fine. They may not share my views. Does that make me wrong for trying to share my views? No. Isn't one point of these forums the sharing of knowledge? Perhaps some opinion is involved, but isn't it always? If nobody needs any recommendations from anyone here, then they don't have to listen to them. However, to tell people that they have no place to say what they think is best seems absurd. Name calling, though, accomplishes nothing. I think we agree their.

Well, have your way with my post now!

 

[philwar]

Gator97, allow me to illuminate...

a) You are trying to protect the portion of the knife community that suffers egregiously from all the negative attention it draws to itself by misusing and abusing knives with no clear aims or merits.

This is not even a misrepresentation, it is an outright lie. You and your cronies are verbally beating on anyone who shows enthusiasm or even a positive interest in what noss4 does. The vast majority of those people do not themselves test knives and you know it. Therefore you have only one (1) motive for the 'negative attention' you rain on them, and that is that they apply a different set of criteria for what makes a good knife than you do.

b) I, on the other hand assume that the knife community might be better served by thoughtful and methodical knife testing rather than abusive stunts aimed mainly at garnering attention.

Another lie, this time by omission. Not only do you assume something (you did use accurate phrasing, kudos for that), you also follow up on that assumption by the above stated behavior. You're a bully, in other words.
You say one thing, and then repeat it ad infinitum. You're in a win-win situation, because you'll end this debate by stamina alone, not on the merit of any argument (you failed to offer a single one yet), and you boost your post count by occupying half of every page in this thread. So good on ya for that.
The poll should have told you all you needed to know - that the vast majority here thinks the noss4 tests have some value or other. You can reach a post count of a million and you will have changed no one's mind.
Noss4 will post another test, and change people's minds by the dozens or more.

The difference is clear as a bell. :thumbup:

Yep. That it is.

 

[orthogonal1]

How come the Guyon is not writting and name calling in the newly presented "Extended Cutting Test" thread. Where is discussion of proper statitical analysis from the Guyon?

I see no "scientific data" presented. I see not sufficient information to reliably repeat the test.

I'm sure all would appreciate such non-pertinent discussion by the Guyon.

Perhaps the Guyon only objects to NOSS4 due to some reason other than that which the Guyon states.

 

[Lycosa]

History in the making... right here!
BF history.

 

[Guyon]

Man, toss out some opinions about TGHM and his doings, and people sure do get all worked up. It's not like I called into question anyone's religion.
Or did I?

 

[A.L.]

I cannot understand how this thread has grown to this size...
I stopped reading after the first page.

 

[Guyon]

You and your cronies are verbally beating

Has philwar seen the way Gator97 and orthogonal1 post? One posts like an obsessed surgeon; the other posts like a bull in a china shop. Who's beating whom?

they apply a different set of criteria for what makes a good knife than you do.

Didn't dl351 just say this?

I keep reading these posts in this thread. I still contend that the tests can be misleading unless all you care about is toughness.

Hmmm.... wonder why philwar seems intent on focusing his indignation in my direction.

You're a bully, in other words.

I sure hope Gator97 is going to come to my defense here. I've been attacked! And Gator97's sole point here is that people should be able to express their opinions without fear of reprisals or name calling.

You say one thing, and then repeat it ad infinitum.

Has philwar been reading orthogonal1's posts?

The poll should have told you all you needed to know - that the vast majority here thinks the noss4 tests have some value or other.

I believe Broos already addressed that point adequately.

I got a kick out of the poll - let's figure out science the same way politicians do - let's make a poll that has questions that favor the result we want, then vote on it! If most agree, it must be true! I get the impression that you guys want the freedom to post a bunch of bad conclusions and overreaching analysis of a knife based on watching a video, without anyone else having the right to post how wrong your opinions are!

Noss4 will post another test, and change people's minds by the dozens or more.

I see no "scientific data" presented. I see not sufficient information to reliably repeat the test.

orthogonal1's outrage is duly noted, and he has every right to post his objections in that thread. Until I see that these Mountain-Dew-induced tests are warping how we look at a knife, I'll abstain.

And I have a small request. Could orthogonal1 please add, "Purveyor of All Things Good" when he refers to me as the Guyon? It just adds a bit of flair to the dramatic moment.

I cannot understand how this thread has grown to this size...
I stopped reading after the first page.

It has something to do with this... I just know it.

 

[Gator97]

And it doesn't have to be malicious or intentional. Heck, could be a dumb coincidence like one maker's knives get tested after a good night's rest and waking up with a ton of energy while another maker's test happens after a good long night out with friends, and the hammer's movin' at half speed all day

Yes, he may not be in the same physical shape every day, but on the average he is. And exactly the same applies to all of us when we use the our knives. And any human being, is more likely to replicate(to some degree) Noss with his variable strength and mood than a machine with its constant parameters.

But I haven't seen anything that tells me Noss would care at all one way or another, as long as it brings him some attention. And it's not his reputation he's playing with, so why would it matter to him?

Come on. His reputation, credibility and personality were discussed, cursed, way over the top...

He may not be selling you something in the literal sense of the word, but he's putting on a show.

Well, that's what your opinion is, fine, but one way or another it is a free public work and so far there is no evidence of malice, doctored data and deliberate misinformation.

 

[Gator97]

For some strange reason, I keep reading these posts in this thread. I still contend that the tests can be misleading unless all you care about is toughness.

Dl, if you read carefully, nobody contended or even tried to convince you otherwise. Some members just say yes I see value in his tests. For that, directly or indirectly they get various labels and names from Noss' detractors.

Oh, and gator, maybe some clarification is needed, but if "we're all equal here in terms of rights to speak," why is it so bad to think that more knowledgeable people should share their knowledge with youngsters in the knife world?

I thought "we're all equal" wouldn't require defense and explanation at least in America
Ok, seriously though, just like Guyon understands "express your opinion" as calling Noss and others thieves, frauds, idiots and such, sharing experience in general is better done on voluntary bases and not forcefully.

I.e. you have experience and you have something to share, I'll be very happy to listen, as long as you do it in a normal manner. BTW, that doesn't mean everyone will listen, but hey it's a free country

The moment you start "experience sharing process" by telling the other side that he's not smart enough, or a dumba$$, or open your statement with namecalling and insults to your opponent, your credibility and usefulness of your arguments goes out of the window. Pretty much...

Honestly, I feel like if I try to recommend anything in this thread, I get told something along the lines of "what makes you so high and mighty to think you can tell newbies that you know better than them."

Depends how you do it. See above.

...I would like to share what I've learned and decided is important.

Great, I can relate, I try to share what I have learned, and I don't have problem(s) asking for help, or questions either.
As long as you do that without mandating the acceptance of your experience and rules, it's all good.

Does that make me wrong for trying to share my views?

No it doesn't. Again, sharing your views is absolutely not the same as requiring to accept them and imposing rules, just like sharing opinion doesn't necessarily mean calling others idiots and fraudsters.

No. Isn't one point of these forums the sharing of knowledge?

Yes, except I or Noss or whoever else shouldn't be insulted and prevented from sharing his experience, just because it's differs from yours.

Name calling, though, accomplishes nothing. I think we agree their.

Glad we agree.

Well, have your way with my post now!

And what exactly does this mean?

 

[dl351]

Thanks for the clarification, Gator. That last part wasn't actually aimed at anyone. It just seems that posts get picked apart pretty good in this thread. Oh, I don't think I ever called anyone names or insulted anyone, but if anyone feels that I did, I apologize.

 

[Guyon]

Ok, seriously though, just like Guyon understands "express your opinion" as calling Noss and others thieves, frauds, idiots and such

I'd like to see some links to posts where I've called anyone (a) a thief, (b) a fraud, (c) an idiot. While the tests may be idiotic, I don't believe I've gone so far as to call anyone an idiot, even TGHM himself. I insinuated he's no Einstein, but I'm confident standing by that claim.

How about some links or an apology, Gator97?

 

[Gator97]

Has philwar seen the way Gator97 and orthogonal1 post? One posts like an obsessed surgeon; the other posts like a bull in a china shop.

Actually, given your habits to deny your own words, skip from subj to subj, there's not many other ways to reply to you.

Who's beating whom?

That's real easy, guyon - 180 posts, Gator97 - 97 posts, Orthogonal1 - 35.
So, you are beating me and him together and plus there is quite a bit of a room to fit few more contenders...

I sure hope Gator97 is going to come to my defense here. I've been attacked! And Gator97's sole point here is that people should be able to express their opinions without fear of reprisals or name calling.

I already explained to you that a) "express opinion" on public forum absolutely doesn't mean calling another person an idiot. b) Outright lies hardly count as "expressing opinion".
In other words, what you are trying to do, is walk in the room full of people, slap in the face those who's opinion you don't like and then when you get one or two in the nose, scream about being attacked...
Rest assured, when (if) you get repressed for your opinions (not name calling) I'll most certainly defend your right for free speech too.
Although, given your postal abilities it's real hard to repress such an outspoken/outposted person...

And what's up with reposting the same photo over and over again?