Knives & Religion ... Don't Mix ??? -:(

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To Ron@Sog: The reference in Luke is NOT about swords. "If you do not have a sword" means 'the word of God.' It comes from the concept that true speech (words from God's mouth) is the 'sword of the lord.' The truth is deemed so dear that a man should 'sell his cloak,' in effect expose himself to the elements, just to hear God. Study the Lexicon.--OKG
 
Para, we really need to find you a hobby to fill all your free time
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Lighten up a little.



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Richard Todd - Digital knife photography
icq 61363141
My WebSite
Do your site a favor, get quality digital images!!!
 
OKG,

I'm not advocating a discussion of theology here, nor will I respond here in the forum. You may email me.

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Ron Andersen
Consumer Services Manager
SOG Specialty Knives, Inc.

Website: www.sogknives.com
Email: ron@sogknives.com

[This message has been edited by Ron@SOG (edited 12-13-2000).]
 
OKG (and whomever)- The word "sword" here is the Greek word "machaira," makh'-ahee-rah - a knife, i.e. dirk; also sometimes translated as sword.

I did a thesis on this verse due to an outcry against my carrying "weapons" while at a Christian College.
 
The Bible also mentions shields, helmets and breastplates. I have never seen a picture of Christ in body armor. They were speaking metaphorically. At His death, it is written that all He had was a garmet made as one piece. Since the Roman guards were dividing up His possessions, I believe a really cool knife would have been mentioned somewhere in the New Testament. Historians cannot even agree on if the true Grail has been found.--OKG
 
It seemsto me that what doesn't mix is religious/political debate in a public forum. Your beliefs are yours, mine are mine. Let's leave it at that and move on. Bravo, Para.

Paul

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Trust no one...
 
Velitrius,
Yes, I saw that on my first read. But I do beleive a person with authority speaks with that authority implied.
Paracelsus,
I think others have anwered your questions for me.
All others,
My signature line reflects what I truly believe at all times. You have the right to express what you believe, and I respect your beliefs. I think all should follow my example please and keep it short, as I believe these Forums are for knives, not religious discussion.

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John 3:16
 
If you're going to ban pics in signature lines to save bandwidth or whatever,fine. But treat everybody the same. Unless you are a very close personal friend of Mark's, it would seem that it was in the role of moderator that you asked him to "consider" his sig line.
Posting a signature line stating your beliefs is not rubbing anyone's face in it-it is simply stating one's belief unless he tries to tell you that you have to believe what he believes.It does open the door though, if someone wants to email to discuss it. And what is wrong with being proud of what you believe?
I happen to agree with you that BF is not a place to discuss religion, but your sig line is like wearing a t-shirt here due to the non-visual circumstances. It can proclaim who you are-it doesn't say you have to believe like I do.
I recently posted to an individual who had posted a pic of a swatstika belt buckle for sale asking if he knew if he might offend some people. Guess what-I was wrong. After talking to a few friends and thinking about it, I sent him a sincere apology and let him know that if he made a new post, I wouldn't post there.Freedom of belief means freedom for all. And yes, I know this forum is private property but I haven't seen any rules from Mike against this.
Anyway, having said all that-I agree with you on one point. Mark maybe should have emailed you back and discussed it with you privately.

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Dave (Phil.4:13)
I Can Do All Things Through Him Who Strengthens Me


[This message has been edited by lifter4Him@aol.com (edited 12-13-2000).]

[This message has been edited by lifter4Him@aol.com (edited 12-13-2000).]
 
Oh my, what a mess I have caused ( sitting here at my PC with tears rolling
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)! When I originally decided to leave the forums, I should have just left instead of posting my leaving here. I just wanted my fellow Blade Friends here to know that I wasn't going to be around. I do admit to that I over re-acted and this was no call for me to leave the forums, just it hit me at the wrong time and the wrong way I suppose. Sometimes I jump to things before really giving it some thought, as I do when buying knives. Sometimes my spontanious reactions when purchasing a knife before thinking about it makes me regret that as well later on.

I do appologize to ALL of you for creating this disturbance and especially to you Paracelsus for not keeping this private, even though I did try to in my original post of this thread! I think if you Paracelsus wouldn't have replied to my thread, this wouldn't have been brought out in public. I never mentioned about our email or gave a detailed reason as to why I was leaving, it was you that released that info here. Oh well, the damage has been done and I am truly sorry that this thread got started. My intentions were to ONLY let people know that I was leaving, that's all!

As far as the signature pic goes, okay, maybe you and some feel it is an eye sore, but I don't see it that way at all. I'm sure GOD doesn't see it that way at all either. But, one thing is right that I have learned through life is religion and politics do create a lot of disturbance, which shouldn't be. But again, look at the torment Jesus went through for ALL of us.

I will respect the fact though that this forum was meant for the discussion of knives and should remain that too. To keep peace, like I said in my second reply to this thread, I will refrain from posting that thumbnail pic here. Hey, if anyone wants to see those Ti Crosses, they are welcomed anytime to check out my tiny web site!
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Again, ALL, please except my appoligies and let's get back to Blade Discussions!

Sincerely, Mark W. Douglas


Edited:
My appoligies are for posting this thread which caused this mess, but I can never appoligize for showing my faith to God & Jesus! I have alot to be thankful for even when having hard times. Many of you are of big help too! Besides blade discussions, you guys make it desireable to be here at BladeForums.com!
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[This message has been edited by TitaniumKnutt (edited 12-13-2000).]
 
The title of this thread appears to be a little misleading. Para was not questioning the mixing of knives and religion, but rather the visceral display of religious beliefs on a public forum dedicated to knives. Whether he was operating within the moderator's realm of authority or not, I agree with what was done. This was not censorship in any manner, all Para was trying to do was prevent a possible situation from arising. This was done in a private manner and do to a little self-admitted over-reaction on Mark's part, became the source of this thread.

Picture content aside, earlier this year when thumbnail signatures were starting to become popular, it was decided that they were a waste of bandwith and we would probably be better off if members did not use them. How long would it take to download a 50 post thread if everyone attached a cute little picture to their post?
 
Recriminations have been made.

Explanations have been given.

Apologies have been offered, and, hopefully accepted.

As a deeply committed yet tactful Christian, I see no more good to come from continuing this discussion.

Paracelsus, please lock this.
 
To Mark: I understand your feelings at this point. It says a lot about the mettle of a man when he places the welfare of his friends above his own comfort, especially in a public forum.
However, we have all gone 'one step over the line.' I would miss your candor, your humor and your convictions if this thread blunted your enthusiasm. Like most guys here, when I see a thread, I can 'skim' over some names, because their comments are either the musings of a newbie or just coarse. I always stop at yours to hear your opinion.
You took a chance here and showed us your unvarnished opinions and you were a testament to your faith. I'll gladly stand next to THAT man and guard his back.
Oh, my wife and I have twin eight-year-old boys who live next store. I can get my fill of fart jokes there...--OKG

[This message has been edited by Old Knife Guy (edited 12-13-2000).]
 
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Paracelsus:
This was supposed to be a private communication. I am sorry I sent the email. And I am sorry I admitted sending it so that folks could understand why Mark was so upset. It has caused me a great deal of needless stress today.</font>

After writing what I did last night, I got to thinking a long time. Actually, it kept me awake a little while last night (kinda ashamed to admit that, or a little worried about myself). And, before I go any further, I haven't read the continuation of this thread beyond Paracelsus' response to my post. But, I kinda doubt the complete innocence of Mark in bringing this to public viewing after what was apparently one private exchange of e-mail. I personally would have read what Para wrote to me, probably would have actually considered it, and then, quite likely, have written him back and declined to change my sig line, until if and when it became a bigger issue to more people. If Para decided to make it an official request in his capacity as moderator, then I would have brought it to the public eye in this forum.

So, that's my arm-chair quarterbacking for today.
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I have had requests to change my sig line in the past (not the one I have now, but earlier ones). One was found offensive by someone (IIRC), another felt that I had a dim, depressing view on life (apparently) and urged me to consider changing it. IIRC in one instance I continued with the same sig until I got tired of it, and the other I changed immediately because I agreed with what the person was saying. So, I speak from a little experience, although in neither of my cases was it religious content.

So now I'll go a read what everyone else has to say. At this point, I still stand by what I said earlier. Mark should be allowed to continue to display his crosses, as long as they are not eating too much bandwidth. Anyone else want to display other religious symbols, go right ahead, as far as I'm concerned. Like I've said before, I'm a Christian, but I DO NOT want to forcibly stop, or coerce, anyone else to hide their beliefs. As long as the symbol isn't vulgar (by the common societal belief system... uhhh... whatever that is...
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) and not pornographic, I don't see the harm. But I don't take myself as seriously as a few people on here seen to (and I'm not pointing fingers at anyone, especially Mark or Paracelsus). At least I like to think that about myself.
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iktomi
 
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Original Post By Old Knife Guy: ...........I would miss your candor, your humor and your convictions if this thread blunted your enthusiasm. ...........</font>

No way is my enthusiasm gone from here!
When I wait and wait for that knife I really want, finally get it, and later on finding out I hate it, my enthusiasm for the next knife is just as strong if not more so! And then the visious circle begins all over again!
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TitaniumKnutt -- Mark W. Douglas
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I am very curious as to why "knives and religion don't mix"? Most of us promote knives as a "tool", not a device for dismembering or killing. A knife is simply a "tool" as it was first intended.

Any tool or object, in the wrong hands, can be used as an weapon. Therefore, it is only the state of mind, of the misguided, that might not mix with religion.

Don't screwdrivers and religion mix? Don't pliers, saws, hammers mix with religion? How are all of these churches being built if it wasn't for tools? Sorry, I don't get it!
 
Mark, I am sorry this is such a public thing. You Did keep my name out of your original post. That resulted in considerable confusion and consternation on the part of everyone here who knows, respects, and loves you. So I tried to explain what had happened.

I think now that may not have been such a good idea.

If I had it to do over again, I probably would have worked a lot harder on wording by email to you. As it was, I thought I went out of my way to explain that all I was asking you to do was consider my thoughts. Any action was (and is still) completely up to you.

Everyone, many many times I have found the best moderating can be accomplished behind the scenes. Moderation is not only Locking, or moving threads. It is trying to find the best balance of content and behavior that allow the community to communicate effectively.

Most of the time I can do nothing to steer arguments. They have a life of their own. Sometimes I post. When given the option to move a thread to a better place, I move it. This happens most of the time with threads which are not contentious. When there seems to be no further good purpose to a thread, I will Consider locking it, but only as a last resort. And sometimes I use email to communicate.

I have generally found that to be a very effective medium most of the time. I have made many friends via email who were originally either annoyed, or upset with me. Curiously, I have Never recieved hostile email. I am amazed that the only email I have received in the last twenty-four hours about this whole thing was one from Mark, and one from Spark, who was responding to the email Mark wrote back to me that he forwarded to Spark.

I frequently email forum members when I see a potential problem with there posts. Sometimes that is a better way to accomplish something without creating a public disturbance. I did this even BEFORE I became a moderator, and I know that many of you have done similar things.

Early last year, I wrote to a certain forum member who used Every smiley in the book to close one word posts that were usually something like: HEY! I found it very annoying. He did not stop, but I tried to get him to think. Didn't work. But that's not my fault.
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Many months ago, Comrade Chang was using a rather large image of his version of a flag. It caused serious bandwidth problems because the university computer he hosted his image on was frequently down. That prevents threads from loading quickly. I emailed him about it, and he reduced the size of his flag and moved it to a more stable server. Problem solved. Chang and I are friends. I have no issues with him, nor I hope, does he with me. Currently, he and a lot of other people are using a Bush/Cheney flag. I don't like those either. But they are timely. And I understand why folks want to use them. So fine, I have not raised the issue at all. I assume this is a temporary phenomenom and will fade with time.

So, I have been doing this sort of thing for a long time. If being a moderator means I can not speak my mind, either publically, or via private communication, without being accused of improper use of authority, I do not know that I can be effective. I know that what I say is sometimes viewed more seriously, or as representing the policies of BFC. That is not always true. I do not speak for BFC. I represent Myself. I try to make the forum Work. That involves playing (like everyone else), teaching, learning, persuading, and occasionally, moderating. Moderating is much more than just being a prison guard and locking threads.

I am trying to do a good job. I am sorry I tried to hard this time around. I did not mean to come across as anti-Christian. I am not. I did not mean for this to be a public matter. But it is. So be it. I simply ask that folks read my words carefully. I try to be precise with my language, and try to convery my intent without creating undo confusion. I do not always succeed
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God bless you all. May peace be with you and yours. God is with you always, and Forever.

Paracelsus, praying
 
Para, the only thing I think you could have done better was possibly make a comparison that was more level. A swastika, as has been mentioned, isn't in the same league with a simple cross, but perhaps a pentacle, such as I might post in a sig, probably would be.
Images by their very nature will tend to bring out an emotional response before an intellectual one.
Even though I don't share the beliefs in question, I certainly understand the inclination to post symbols of it. Especially well-crafted symbols. Did you make those crosses, Mark?

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Oz

"Nonsense. I have not yet begun to defile myself."
http://www.freespeech.org/oz/
 
Stick a fork in it cause this looks done to me. All's well that ends well, as they say. Paracelsus has explained himself well and Mark, ever the gentleman, is back with us. While I tended to agree with Senator and Richard on this issue, I think I can also see Paracelsus' reasoning. No doubt, his job is not an easy one. So back to sharp thingies, eh? Just my opinion of course. We could have a recount...
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Hoodoo

I get some pleasure from finding a relentlessly peaceful use for a combative looking knife.
JKM
 
Oz, no, I didn't make them, I'm not that talented
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I had them specially made per my specs. Just like my whole life I have been in search for the perfect knife, so I have for a cross pendant. I figured I would have to have them made to my specs if I ever wanted to have one to wear.

Thanks for asking!

TitaniumKnutt -- Mark W. Douglas
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[This message has been edited by TitaniumKnutt (edited 12-13-2000).]
 
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