Knock-Off, Counterfeit, Fake Bucks & The Americans Who Sell Them

Plumberdv said:
The web site I'm talking about also has some Bucks that might or not be real. Since the real ones are made in China, how are you to know?
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Fair point. I see some CRKT models, for example, that look identical and are probably made on the same assembly line that the "real" CRKT models are. Just run the production machines for an extra day and sell it through back channels. This is completely possible with any company that manufactures in China, and electronics are notorious for this practice.

I know you're aware of this but some others reading this page may or may not: some Buck knives are made in China but many are still made in the USA (the Vanguard is USA made).
-StaTiK-
 
sitflyer said:
The fact that this seller ended his auctions is a good point. By having a discussion on a forum that validates the fakes to reference them to. I don't personally think that all of the vendors know they have fakes. A case in point is my local pawn shop. A while back he had a 119 under the glass and when I was looking it over he said" that's one of the good ones when they were made here". I had a little discussion with him and set him strait on the issue, and he thanked me.

It might be interesting to be able to find out where some of these vendors are acquiring these fakes. Are they picking them up online? Is there a distribution chain that exists domestically, with catalogs and salespeaple? The fact that they took the time to copy the boxes and brazenly use Buck logos on the sheaths etc. tell that they are making big numbers of these things. They have to be marketing and distributing them in some fashion.
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The first fake that I posted here: The seller thanked the forum for the information. I asked who their vendor was but only received the answer that they were new and won't be used again. I wonder if someone on bladeforums is a customs agent? I am happy to see that I am not the only one worried about fakes and counterfeits (commercial terrorists). Thank you everyone for your efforts.
 
The seller of the goods pictured in post #8 of this thread claims that they are not fake.
 
Another current seller of fake Buck knives, this one in Benton Kansas, no tang stamp, link to finished auction: http://www.ebay.com/itm/BUCK-RED-PO...D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

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oregon said:
I wonder if someone on bladeforums is a customs agent?
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Selling reproductions isn't a crime. Customs couldn't do anything about fakes coming into the country. Selling them and trying to pass them off as real is against the rules set by the auction sites. The hard part is getting those auction sites to do something about it. They can't prove the Item is fake. Everything of value gets "faked", ie Paintings, watches, antiques, firearms, ect. It just so happens that we all like Buck knives so it pisses us off, but it happens all the time with everything. Unless you have a full time job as a rep from Buck knives scanning the auction sites for fakes and you can prove that the item listed is trying to defraud you. There isn't much you can do but bang your head your head against a wall because it will drive you crazy.
 
Selling knockoffs with fake brands and trademarks is very much a crime -- a federal crime in the U.S. and a state crime in many U.S. states.

BY JOHN MARZULLI / NEW YORK DAILY NEWS

WEDNESDAY, FEBRUARY 6, 2013, 1:00 PM

That’s not Mickey Mouse! Five Queens businessmen arrested for importing knockoff toys from China
Dora the Explorer, SpongeBob SquarePants and Spiderman among the counterfeit toys seized. Suspects were charged with trademark infringement, money laundering and conspiracy to import hazardous products.
The defendants — Chenglan Hu, 51; Hua Fei Zhang, 52; Xiu Lan Zhang, 60; Guan Jun Zhang, 29; and Jun Wu Zhang, 28 - are scheduled to be arraigned on an indictment this afternoon in Brooklyn Federal Court.
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Those are all federal felonies with mandatory sentences with no "time off."

JACKSON, MS (Mississippi News Now) -
The Attorney General's "Operation Knock Out Knock Offs" initiative has shut down another counterfeiting operation and netted two arrests. This time in Hazlehurst.

Flanked by his investigators and officers with the Hazlehurst Police Department, Attorney General Jim Hood displayed a cache of counterfeit CDs and DVDs.

Police Chief Byron Swilley said the public alerted him to the place of business known as "The Ice House" in Hazlehurst.

Chief Swilley said, "This investigation been going on for a little over a year and we was able to contact Attorney General's office and they immediately responded to us."

"You know, we're the only state in the nation that receives federal grants for the last three years to operate an intellectual property unit in our office and it's been very effective," said Attorney General Hood.

Patrick King, 37, was arrested and faces six counts of selling counterfeit CDs. It's not his first arrest for selling bogus CDs; he was busted in 2003. In convicted, King faces up to 38 years behind bars.

Police also arrested 25-year-old Christopher Williams for selling counterfeit goods out of his car at the Raju Gas Station on North Caldwell Drive in Hazlehurst. Williams faces possibly 10 years in prison, if convicted.
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(Long Island, NY) Five people have been arrested and charged with racketeering, trademark counterfeiting, conspiracy and money laundering for operating a scheme to import and sell fake designer handbags, boots, jackets, pocketbooks, sunglasses, jewelry and other merchandise, Suffolk County District Attorney Thomas Spota said today. The knockoffs were manufactured and exported from factories in China, stored at facilities in Queens and then distributed by the ring members to “street sellers” in the metro area, Florida, Pennsylvania, Illinois, Georgia and California.
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So anyone knowingly selling knockoffs is a criminal.

The problem law enforcement faces is too many crooks and too many customers who knowingly buys knockoffs, funneling $billions to the crooks.
 
When I worked the International bridge as an armed guard in El Paso I saw Customs bust several loads of knock off designer purses and clothing coming across from Mexico.
Importing and or selling these counterfeit Bucks is definitely a crime.Whether the current administration lacks the manpower or the willingness to enforce this law is the question.
 
I consider it useful to be able to send a knockoff seller to this very thread where they can see their fake Buck pictured in order to reinforce, via informed consensus, that their item is indeed fake without a doubt. This forum is a counterpoint to the wholesaler(s) lying to vendors that these rip-off knives are authentic.

Perhaps the forum will allow a naming of names, hall of shame, list of the unabashed vendors, those who know and persist in their fraud despite our efforts. It would serve to let these criminals know that their crime does not go unnoticed and inform the uninformed prospective buyers.
 
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This fake/counterfeit seller is out of Independence, Missouri and has several Buck knockoffs.

Here is another one of this seller's counterfeits:

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And another of this vendor's fakes:

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No tang stamps.
 
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FYI, Oregon and I are discussing forum rules on this House of Shame list idea. Don't anyone start getting too personal on this. Showing photos and the discussions above seem to fall in the allowed limits. I know its a shock but there is no Moderator school so its learn as you go....ha

Edited to add, everyone always be careful about not listing a active Ebay auction. Once they are closed you can show the listing and discuss whether or not the item was a fake. Will get back to everyone on the listing of active auctions and the listing of names of sellers.

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The problem I see here is that not all words are interchangable, counterfeit, knock off, fake, or reproduction don't all mean the same thing. By no means do I believe that the sellers of these knives aren't trying to sell you a counterfeit "BUCK brand knife". The product can be very similar without infringing on copyrights or breaking the law. If a product just looks similar and has similar packaging but not identical to the product that is produced by the original company it could be a reproduction or a knock off, which is not illegal, unless the item is being sold as the real thing (intention of the seller). Counterfeits or fakes look identical with identical packaging and sold as the real thing is illegal and is infringing copyrights. All of these knives are counterfeits, some are knock off. To be counterfeit they have to look identical to a model that Buck Knives makes, just because they look similar doesn't make it illegal. It is against the rules of the auction sites though.
 
I agree with part of that Matt and disagree strongly with other parts. There's a big difference in a "reproduction/clone" and a "counterfeit". As long as a pattern isn't patented or the originator doesn't have a copyright of some kind, I don't think it's illegal to clone or reproduce it UNLESS the clone or reproduction is marked and marketed in such a way as to try to deceive people into thinking it is the genuine article.

Even a knife pattern that has never been part of Buck's line, but is marked with Buck's name, logo and is sold in an exact copy of Buck's packaging is still a counterfeit because it was marked and marketed that way in order to deceive the buying public into thinking it was made by Buck. When they use Buck's copyrighted logo, that is a pure violation and every one shown so far here has done that.
 
oregon said:
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Plumberdv said:
Even a knife pattern that has never been part of Buck's line, but is marked with Buck's name, logo and is sold in an exact copy of Buck's packaging is still a counterfeit because it was marked and marketed that way in order to deceive the buying public into thinking it was made by Buck. When they use Buck's copyrighted logo, that is a pure violation and every one shown so far here has done that.
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Is this is Buck clone? I don't recognize it. It's a shame too because it's interesting and I would consider buying it if it was a Sanrenmu or similar. Illegally putting Buck's name on it = not interested anymore. But I guess the manufacturer probably gets more sales by using the name than loses sales by the likes of us.
-StaTiK-
 
Not in Buck's product line. It s a counterfeit due to label of "Buck" on knife and on box and therefore a crime against a great American Icon I know, admire and celebrate: Buck Knives, Inc.

I consider this international financial terrorism, like counterfeiting $100 bills, aided by American vendors right here in this country.
 
StaTiK said:
Is this is Buck clone? I don't recognize it. It's a shame too because it's interesting and I would consider buying it if it was a Sanrenmu or similar. Illegally putting Buck's name on it = not interested anymore. But I guess the manufacturer probably gets more sales by using the name than loses sales by the likes of us.
-StaTiK-
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I don't think it's a clone of any genuine Buck pattern but it does have the Buck name with the C inside a circle (indicating a copyright) on both the blade and the box. A clear and blatant violation of copyright laws.

"But I guess the manufacturer probably gets more sales by using the name than loses sales by the likes of us." And that's exactly the reason they do it. Otherwise, what's the point?
 
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