Lets talk GEC!

If GEC is just re using the clip blade as shown in my pics on a frame that has been used before, it's all somewhat a moot point to bring up all these issues anyways. In other words GEC is just releasing a knife with parts that have already been used. Just in a new configuration.
 
And if Charlie did indeed ask Tony for permission on that blade, it's an even greater moot point in my opinion.
 
I can see how it came across that way but that wasn't my intent. I was wondering if there's a bias toward policing below a certain price point driven by the desire to keep prices inflated.

To keep the custom prices inflated you mean? Or to keep the Case Bose collaboration prices inflated?

Both are worth their weight pricing wise in my opinion. From Custom to Case Bose. They both provide a far different method of construction and fabrication that GEC doesn't touch the bar at.

Your standard Case Bose is around sub<400. Your standard shadow Lanny's Clip also hits that mark. Your CB provides bolsters, shield, non-micarta covers.
Your custom provides custom fit and finish and maker expertise.
 
The simple answer is that the youtuber should pick up a phone and call Tony. To the my knowledge he didn't ask permission even when he interviewed him. Instead he seemed to use the discussion on price as a setup to market the knives that he was planning.

This is pretty much what I was hoping to avoid after the run of Zulus. But it is at least not using the same grind. I do have concerns that's coming next. I find it both frustrating and embarrassing. It makes collectors look completely self absorbed. And it could be very damaging to the hobby in many ways.

Social media has been the subject of a lot of news recently and I'm sure that we are all aware that it is a very powerful way of marketing ideas and products. Making a video that advertises a knife as a less expensive version of Tony Bose knife, is not marketing the knife on its own merits. It's clearly using the Bose name and pattern in the marketing of that knife.

Tony Bose is one of us, sitting on the porch. He's made years of contributions to discussion. He's shared his knowledge with aspiring knife makers and made a huge impact on custom knife making. The best have learned from him and made their own way, not just pump out replicas of Tony's work. Tony has led the way for traditional knife makers to collaborate with manufacturers as has been also done with modern knives. In that respect, his work with Case has been good for everyone --manufacturers, custom knife makers, and collectors. Dan Burke and Bill Ruple have had productive collaborations with Queen. All of this is only possible because of mutual trust and respect. If opportunists want to take advantage of this system, it may not last. I hope that his son Reese will pick up the collaboration with Case when his father retires so that it will continue for many more years. I hope that GEC will seek out collaborations with knife makers rather than just copy their work directly or through SFOs.

The name "Lanny's Clip" has no meaning without Tony Bose. Tony's friend saw Tony's new pattern and bought the first ten knives. It's a curved jack. Curved jacks have been around a long time. I've seen a two blade that is a dead ringer but smaller. I don't recall seeing a single blade that's an exact match.

Rebirthing old patterns is fine. Using the name "Tony Bose" in marketing and stealing patterns from custom knife makers is just lazy and disrespectful. Not cool. Innovate. Open a book. Look at old catalogs. There are literally thousands of old patterns waiting to be reborn.
Here's Tony describing the Lanny's Clip.
Lanny told me he wanted a knife 3 3/4" closed with a sturdy clip in it and this is what I came up with. Not knowing what to call it I started calling it Lannys clip. It's a work horse of a knife. The blade grind is kinda tuff but pretty when you pull it off.
From this thread.
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/716598-Who-is-or-was-Lanny?p=7870756#post7870756

One of the interesting things about that example is that Charlie asked Tony Bose for permission to do the run. :thumbup:

This is a fact.

So do ALL of the custom knifemakers out there making/selling Lanny's Clips & zulus (and described as such) get Tony's permission, or are they immune to the outrage of some because of their similar price points?

If so, at what price point is one allowed to copy or adapt and sell a pattern with it being acceptable by the pattern police?

Or, are the custom makers just too small to raise the ire of the pattern police, yet a run of 100 knives isn't?

If this is all price point-driven, then I wonder how many people are selfishly motivated by not wanting their high-priced collectibles to drop in price due to the natural flow of a popular product to a down-market price point.

It's really difficult to distinguish what is constituted as "OK" here.

I can't comment on ALL since I only know SOME. Tony has given his patterns to aspiring knife makers and helped them with the careers. It's a bit different than a manufacturer pumping out the knives without permission. In the case of the Zulus the number ordered from GEC was actually pretty close to the number produced by Case. Case has a contract with Tony. Case does rerun some of these patterns. Case has rerun some with blade changes and steel changes and I hope that continues. Tony gets commission for those knives.

I don't care at all about value but that is one of the many things that could have a negative impact on the collaboration. When it comes to "greed", I think it's coming from those who want to make a quick profit without doing any real work of their own. But that is not a topic allowed on this forum.

I don't know of any custom knife maker that makes the Lanny's Clip pattern that hasn't had Tony's permission and often even a copy of Tony's pattern. I'm sure there are some. There seems to be at least one.

Someone making and selling Lanny's Clips is unlikely to cut into any custom knifemakers business. Those that buy custom knives, buy the maker as much or more then the pattern. This is also true of the Case/Bose Collaborations, which are as close to a custom knife as you are going to get in a manufactured knife.

I think you'll find that the majority of serious knife collectors would expect a maker to get permission, before making and selling copies of another makers pattern. Especially when the original makers name is used in the description or marketing.
 
Last edited:
I'm with you on most points Jake. I'm not sure it's strict laziness/ greed on the the direct copies though.Bad form , perhaps . I venture to say that the motivation is bringing his popular patterns to people at different economical bracket. Just about everything GEC makes sell out quickly. Seems like Case would have a bone to pick though. Especially if they're paying royalties .
My question was more of a future scenerio. When is it ethical to reproduce makers work without permission . Seems like I read somewhere the old cutlerys copied each other quite frequently .
 
When is it ethical to reproduce makers work without permission . Seems like I read somewhere the old cutlerys copied each other quite frequently .

It's a simple question that everyone seems to be evading. Does he get a grace period of ten years before other people can start playing with his pattern? Do makers have to wait until the original maker dies, before they should blindly copy a pattern without permission?

Let's present a far easier example to work with. Lets say that Joe Bruce, a 20-year old custom maker, produces the very first Wizbang Sheepsfoot. It's a gorgeous new pattern, but Joe refuses to give permission to anybody else. Joe is kind of a......... Joe is not loved in the knife comunity, even though his work is spectacular. How long do we give Joe, before we start making our own Wizbang-like knives?
 
I am sort of new to all of this,but essentially what they are doing is putting a clip point blade in a pattern they have run many times ? Which is actually quite different in the handle than the "Lanny's Clip"

I think it's just all conjecture at this point. Do you know for sure permission wasn't asked and granted ?

If it was asked, I didn't see it in the several long videos that I watched. My intention is not to single out individuals. This seems to be a trend now. And I think it's an unfortuante and potentially damaging path.

I'd love for GEC and dealers to call up other custom makers and start up some productive collaborations. I can think of some that would be extremely successful. Lots of good examples in this forum. That is what will keep this community strong.

I can see how it came across that way but that wasn't my intent. I was wondering if there's a bias toward policing below a certain price point driven by the desire to keep prices inflated.

Price and profitability definitely is what keeps businesses in business. There's a lot of grey area in life... probably mostly grey. But I think this is a black and white issue. Don't do it at all without permission.

Most of us including myself are big GEC fans. But that doesn't mean that everything needs to be redone with GEC's touch. One of the things that makes GEC great is that they've started from scratch and gone their own way. In the last few years there's been more and more influence from Case/Bose designs. I may want knives but I don't want knives that are made by stepping on the toes of Tony or Case. That is not something that I want to expect from GEC. And I don't think it's good for GEC or the community. In my opinion, continuing to rebirth old patterns and starting collaborations with custom knife makers is the way to grow.
 
I think the pattern isn't too much of a big deal in this case, but rather using the Bose name to sell the product.
 
Here's Tony describing the Lanny's Clip.

From this thread.
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/716598-Who-is-or-was-Lanny?p=7870756#post7870756



This is a fact.

Thanks for the correction. Tony is the best source. I was quoting this...
The design of the Lanny's Clip was an inspiration by Tony Bose for his friend Lanny Shell from Tennessee. Lanny saw the knife and bought the first ten that Tony produced.

This is now an iconic design adopted and graciously given by the "Old Dog" Tony to many in the knife making community. It happens to be one of my personal favorites and I

have three in slightly different configurations and one on order with Reese.

Jeff
 
I'm the only one being slighted here! Rob stole my idea!!! :eek: :D :D :D I was the innovator of the "Heartland Clip" and I want my royalties. or at least a free knife. Hahahaha
 
Those that buy custom knives, buy the maker....

I think this a very important point.

To keep the custom prices inflated you mean? Or to keep the Case Bose collaboration prices inflated?

Both are worth their weight pricing wise in my opinion. From Custom to Case Bose. They both provide a far different method of construction and fabrication that GEC doesn't touch the bar at.

Your standard Case Bose is around sub<400. Your standard shadow Lanny's Clip also hits that mark. Your CB provides bolsters, shield, non-micarta covers.
Your custom provides custom fit and finish and maker expertise.

It's another important point that often gets lost. And the Case/Bose collaboration knives like the Lanny's Clip are manufactured very differently than the way Case manufacturers other stand production Case/Bose patterns like the Swayback Jack... and very differently than the way GEC manufacturers knives.

I'm the only one being slighted here! Rob stole my idea!!! :eek: :D :D :D I was the innovator of the "Heartland Clip" and I want my royalties. or at least a free knife. Hahahaha

If he called it BigBiscuit's Heartland Clip, I think you'd have a good chance at that free knife. :D
 
How does anyone know if he asked permission, and why is it assumed he didnt? Im sure not every word they spoke is posted in a video somewhere.
 
First, Bob, that modified BF 74 (the BigBiscuit Clip) is awesome. Holy smokes.

Second, this is a fantastic and really informative discussion. Thanks everyone for weighing in. As usual, I'm learning a lot.
 
I don't know if this is already well known and tell me to shut up, but there is another #74 release available on DLT Trading? Looks like a different blade and no claim is being made about it being "fashioned after" anything. Called a muskrat and available in three covers?
 
I don't know if this is already well known and tell me to shut up, but there is another #74 release available on DLT Trading? Looks like a different blade and no claim is being made about it being "fashioned after" anything. Called a muskrat and available in three covers?
There is a drop point 74 SFO for them as well .The point being raised was regarding a video in which a case / bose lanny was used as comparison for his SFO
 
I think I'm done with the feeding frenzies. If i get one, that's nice, but if not, oh well. Up til now I've managed to get every SFO I've gone after. I've been putting the brakes on my collecting lately though. Im sure the standard Northfield edition will scratch my itch just fine and I was one of the first ones on the list for the DLT Snakewood 74.
 
Back
Top