Lion Steel Rotoblock

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phrenik said:
and also the rotoblock feature locks into place creating a knife that is more like a fixed blade in terms of strength due to these additional features.
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Not trying to be argumentative but how so? It seems to me that the rotoblock feature is more like a safety to prevent the disengagement of the lock; but unless I'm missing something, it does nothing what-so-ever to increase the strength of the frame itself? :confused:
 
BP Green said:
Not trying to be argumentative but how so? It seems to me that the rotoblock feature is more like a safety to prevent the disengagement of the lock; but unless I'm missing something, it does nothing what-so-ever to increase the strength of the frame itself? :confused:
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It seems to me that the rotoblock makes it impossible for the lock bar to move over, unlocking the blade, thereby making it impossible for the knife to accidentally close.

So it avoids the type of failure where the lockbar is defeated, making the lockbar "stronger".

With a normal liner lock, it's popssible to put enough force on the spine of the blade to bend the lockbar out/in and close the knife. Rotoblock avoids that.
 
BP Green said:
Not trying to be argumentative but how so? It seems to me that the rotoblock feature is more like a safety to prevent the disengagement of the lock; but unless I'm missing something, it does nothing what-so-ever to increase the strength of the frame itself? :confused:
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stevenkelby said:
It seems to me that the rotoblock makes it impossible for the lock bar to move over, unlocking the blade, thereby making it impossible for the knife to accidentally close.

So it avoids the type of failure where the lockbar is defeated, making the lockbar "stronger".

With a normal liner lock, it's popssible to put enough force on the spine of the blade to bend the lockbar out/in and close the knife. Rotoblock avoids that.
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Sort of what I had in mind. And Yes it is a safety from the lock from becoming disengaged. This in itself strengthens lock. Think about it. The lock, whether it is a back lock, liner lock, framelock, it is there in order to keep the knife from disengaging. And also in some way attaches the frame/holds a part/mechanism of the frame to the blade acting as a lock [the frame it self in a RIL, the back spring+steel in a back lock, the ball pivot in the notch for others, the liner cutout of one side of the handle etc etc]. And the lock mechanism is one variable in the many that determines the strength of a blade.

Other variables include: type of lock, materials used for said lock, handle material and ergonomics, blade thickness/geometry, length+thickness, steel quality, pivot strength etc.

A fixed blade has less variables in testing its strength. One of those variables that are missing is a locking mechanism. Because a fixed blade, is all one piece, therefore you can also say it is "always locked", or that the blade is always in contact with the handle+lock etc. So if one can take a folder, and strengthen its lock in some way by allowing for this variable to become stronger, or reinforced in some way, I believe that it is a step closer to becoming a stronger folder, and closer to that of a fixed blade.

I never stated anything about the rotoblock strengthening the frame of the knife, since that is more dependent on the materials used in the handle and the lock bar. As you have quoted me, the rotoblock reinforces the lockbar, which is one variable in determining the strength of the knife. Therefore if you implant a device [rotoblock lock] in which it reinforces the variable, the frame lock, and make it so that it is not likely to disengage/unlock from the blade, then it would seem to me that it strengthens the knife.
 
I've been carrying the HEST proto for some time now and find the Rotoblock engaging a lot by itself when I open the knife. It's a little annoying because you don't realize it happened so when you go to close the knife you can't without disengaging the RotoBlock. With that said, I think Gianni said these on the protos were a little looser than normal. Not sure about that though. But as Tom said, the frame lock itself is extremely strong.
 
BP Green said:
Not trying to be argumentative but how so? It seems to me that the rotoblock feature is more like a safety to prevent the disengagement of the lock; but unless I'm missing something, it does nothing what-so-ever to increase the strength of the frame itself? :confused:
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I would say it does not increase the strength of the lock mechanism because you still have the triangle of the stop pin, pivot pin and lock bar. If you start batoning the knife it's going to loosen the lock mechanism that same as any folder will do. With that said, I can see where the Rotoblock being midway of the lockbar adds strength to the lock bar when it is engaged.
 
R.A.T. said:
I've been carrying the HEST proto for some time now and find the Rotoblock engaging a lot by itself when I open the knife. It's a little annoying because you don't realize it happened so when you go to close the knife you can't without disengaging the RotoBlock. With that said, I think Gianni said these on the protos were a little looser than normal. Not sure about that though. But as Tom said, the frame lock itself is extremely strong.
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Jeff, is the Rotoblock tension something that can be adjusted easily by the user?
 
Not sure Rob. It has a an allen head in the center but when I tried to tighten it I couldn't get it to move so I'm not sure how it is put together.
 
R.A.T. said:
I would say it does not increase the strength of the lock mechanism because you still have the triangle of the stop pin, pivot pin and lock bar. If you start batoning the knife it's going to loosen the lock mechanism that same as any folder will do. With that said, I can see where the Rotoblock being midway of the lockbar adds strength to the lock bar when it is engaged.
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See now that's how I look at it. I don't think it's a matter of strength so much as it is one of safety\security.

If it actually reinforces the lock bar somehow that's one thing; but otherwise all it does is prevent the lock bar from sliding over. That doesn't do anything to "strengthen" the bar, just prevents it from moving.

Does it matter in the grand scheme of things? I don't think so, but what would the www. be without long pointless discussions about trivial matters? :rolleyes:;)
 
Well I stand corrected then. That is just how I felt/ thought of it as it was an integral part of their design to reinforce the lock which therein strengthens the knife by strengthening the lockbar and not allowing it to disengage. But if the guru Mr. Randall says so, I will go with Mr. Randall on this lol. I stand down from my post
 
phrenik said:
Well I stand corrected then. That is just how I felt/ thought of it as it was an integral part of their design to reinforce the lock which therein strengthens the knife by strengthening the lockbar and not allowing it to disengage. But if the guru Mr. Randall says so, I will go with Mr. Randall on this lol. I stand down from my post
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You know what? I don't mean to start another pissing contest here but that post strikes me as fanboyism of the highest order.

My post was based on 1) common sense 2) a basic understanding of the engineering principals incorporated into a simple locking mechanism and 3) again common freakin sense.

Basically what you are saying is that you put no stock into any of that unless it comes down from the "The Guru" himself?!? :rolleyes:
 
If I see this right, judging from the photos I've seen so far, part of the force put on the lock bar, when trying to defeat the lock, goes on the rotoblock, which is connected to the whole frame, which means that it goes in the scale itself, rather than going all in the cutout of the lockbar , if that makes any sense ...
 
jacktrades_nbk said:
If I see this right, judging from the photos I've seen so far, part of the force put on the lock bar, when trying to defeat the lock, goes on the rotoblock, which is connected to the whole frame, which means that it goes in the scale itself, rather than going all in the cutout of the lockbar , if that makes any sense ...
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Hmmm.. If that's the case then it could possibly add to the overall strength of the knife.

There is a big difference between a mechanism that prevents disengagement of the lockbar and actually adding strength through reinforcement or diversion of force onto a stronger part of the frame.

The question then would be is the rotoblock actually stronger than the weakest section of the bar (the cutout)? I don't know?

In all reality does it even matter? It's fun to debate but I'm not planning on doing any batoning. . .
 
BP Green said:
You know what? I don't mean to start another pissing contest here but that post strikes me as fanboyism of the highest order.

My post was based on 1) common sense 2) a basic understanding of the engineering principals incorporated into a simple locking mechanism and 3) again common freakin sense.

Basically what you are saying is that you put no stock into any of that unless it comes down from the "The Guru" himself?!? :rolleyes:
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Ok you know what, you have said already " I don't want to start a pissing contest.... " etc. But thats a sorry excuse just to start one and later say you had no fault because you added this "clause" of no fault. Its like a damn fine print in a legal notice just so you try and get off the hook later when you piss someone off.

Yet you go off and take offense to my statement, which I SAID I STAND CORRECTED! your original post, did not give any facts but your opinion in a QUESTION FORM. You did not present anything more, anything less.

Aren't my comments toward your question common sense? Did I not give an example as to why I believe it strengthens the lock? You mis-questioned my post in the first place stating that I said the rotoblock strengthens the frame. I said it strengthens the LOCK. And I gave my reason why I thought that. Mr. Randall has been in the knife making business for many years now, and have built knives, thereby having the experience and wisdom of a knife maker, and the knowledge of various mechanisms. So I do respect his point of views.

After his post you finally stated some other information and said that THAT is what you thought, what MR. Randall had stated. and by default if I agree with him, does that not mean I agree with you? Think critically for a second please.

Not only that, before Mr. Randalls post, there was another person who posted, and it was not totally the same idea as what I had in mind, and he agreed with you also. And yes this brought to light, yea it may just be seen as a safety mechanism. And it can be seen as added strengthening feature for others. And with his statement I even said, yes he, in a roundabout way stated that it would be a safety feature from having the lockbar from disengaging. And I responded that, putting it that way, yes it is sort of what I had in mind.

How is this fanboyism? Even disregarding the above mentions, is a high regard for someone's -a person who has been in the knife making business for many years now - opinion on a matter of the functionality of a knife to a finer grain of salt not common sense, as you like to throw that phrase around. And further saying that my earlier response may have been incorrect, and that I would not doubt his answer a show of fanboyism? If Bob terzoula, Sal Glasser, Ed Schempp, Kirby Lambert, Gianni from Lionsteel, etc, whomever is in this business, and had been working on knives for some amount of time had said the same thing as Mr. Randall, I would have digressed, and abanadoned my post in order to rethink what I thought in the first place. I do not have the experience of this mechanism in order to content against their responses to the question that arose.
 
It indeed adds to the strength of the lock bar itself in the same way a truss brace adds strength to a roofing truss. But there are still 2 more points to the lock triangle and it doesn't help them at all. Any one of the 3 fails, the lock fails.
 
No I don't feel better, because I felt that when i was answering your question in the first place, I was trying to help, and at least point out my opinion as to what I felt was the correct answer to your question; which in a way was half wrong, slightly right anyway. Yet you took offense to my statement, thinking that I bypassed you and that you held no matter at all, which was not intended, and as I pointed out that, it was part of a package deal, and that I did indeed agree with Mr.Randall, and yourself. But you seemed to have missed that, and you started to call me names. But since what the point of this rotoblock cannot be FULLY answered by us, no anyone except the true maker, Gianni. I will cease to post on this matter.
 
phrenik said:
No I don't feel better, because I felt that when i was answering your question in the first place, I was trying to help, and at least point out my opinion as to what I felt was to be correct answer to your question; which in a way is half wrong, slightly right. Yet you took offense to my statement, which was not intended, and you started to call me names. Is that not a point for argumentation?
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I took your answer to mean that you were saying You disagreed with me up until the point that RAT said the same thing I was saying. That's where the fanboyism comment stemmed from. I apologise. . .
 
It seems like the Christmas holidays has a lot of people on edge. :D

Merry Christmas everyone. Happy New Year.
 
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