Sounds like a pretty heavy basic load, RR. Consider a wheelbarrow or two.
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long term 2 gun combos for the Great Basin
- Thread starter koyote
- Start date
Mehhhh.... it's a matter of degree and both the 30-30 and pistol caliber carbines are "short range rifles" but a 30-30 has less drop at 300 yards than a 357 does at 200. The 30-30 has about the same energy at 300 yards than a 357 does at 100.
It was once THE small caliber, high velocity (compared to 45/70) "long range" rifle.
357 certainly does the job though and I understand you want maintain interchangeability.
And I noticed during the Hussein Obama election scare that 30/30 still seemed to be on the shelf when almost everything else was gone.
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It's not the Michigan woods. Only a fool goes on foot for very long out here...there is a good reason they call it "Death Valley"! So, packing heavy when off-roading with a truck, Jeep, or ATV, isn't an issue. I also ride dual-sport dirt bikes, and that is where you learn to travel light. The most important piece of survival equipment, is water!
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I was waiting to see if that was as bad as it sounded
I think all regions have special characteristics and beauty. The basin overall, is exceptional to me. I agree with certain religious communities out this way, though my definition is different, that this be Zion.
But the territory, regardless of all that, is different- I've lived on both coasts and inland wet forests and mountains. I'm much less likely to walk around a tree (since all the nearby ones are specifically planted!) and run into a black bear or startle a razorback. Snakes may or may not be more common, but seem to be run across more often. Watching stuff move on a hillside 12 miles away is normal. Stuff like that.
Honestly, in western virginia or up in southern PA, I'm happy with a .22 and a 20 ga. very happy!
The 12 ga ammo carrying is a definite issue. I generally run around with just the 5 rounds for the single barrel brush gun, plus 5 on my belt. not a lot, but more than I've ever used.
Hmmm.... well, I used to spend A LOT of time on the trail in Arizona (and a few other desert areas). I still have friends who basically make their career out of walking that same desert. But I certainly agree, water is everything in the desert.
Modoc ED
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koyote - Your sentence - "Watching stuff move on a hillside 12 miles away is normal." sure does show a difference between other places and the Great Basin. When you come out of Tonopah, NV on U.S. 95 South and hit the crest of the hill just past McDonald's, you can see forever as there isn't anything there but scrub/sage brush for as far as the eye can see.
Hope you enjoy your new home in NV. Got a better description/location than - "North of Harmon Junction, Nevada" ?
Hope you enjoy your new home in NV. Got a better description/location than - "North of Harmon Junction, Nevada" ?
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Almost due north about a mile!
Harmon Junction is the last chance gas station on US50 heading east, 6 miles east of Fallon. The road on the west of their parking lot is called "harmon road". take that north to the canal and turn right on Reservoir Road, got down 1/4 mile or so. That's us.
according to google, the center of my shop outbuilding is:
39.482661
-118.674920
A while back when I was shooting a bit of Cowboy Action Shooting, I picked up a Marlin 1894c in .357 to go along with a pair of .357s pistols I had. It's a good rifle/pistol combination.
Later, I got into .44 magnums. I have an S&W 329 and 4 inch 629. I agree with you, Koyote, that for general use, the .44 magnum is too much in a shorter barrelled revolver. So, I began reloading, and settled on a glorified .44 Special load, in magnum cases, that I mostly shoot these days. Shooting a full house .44 mag load in the 329 is like hitting your hand with a hammer. Not fun. But a 240 gr. lead SWC at 900 fps is smooth as butter. It's also great in the 4 inch 629. I haven't shot a factory load in either pistol in years. I'm not a big reloader; I just load up all my .44 mag brass every couple of years, when I run out, and shoot until it's almost gone.
My point is that you already reload. Why would ammo availability matter? Like most reloaders, you just stock up when you find a deal, and don't worry about it. Find a load you like, that's comfortable and accurate, and it won't be too much for small game.
Now that I'm more into .44 mag, I regret getting a .357 carbine. I see that the .44 mag is so versatile, I think it's a better choice for a pistol/rifle combo. You can shoot low powered loads in pistol and rifle, and then shoot full house loads out of the rifle when you need to step it up.
These same points lend themselves to the .45 Colt. You reload, so no worries about supply. The one advantage is that Marlin 1894s in .44 mag are known to have too slow of twist to stabilize projectiles heavier than 240 gr or so. The .45 colt version are excellent for very heavy projectiles, like 380 grs. This makes the .45 colt rifle a bit more versatile than the .44 mag. Again, light loads for the pistols and rifles, and heavy loads when you need to step it up in the rifle.
Another great choice would be a Savage 24 over/under combination gun. They're lightweight, and extremely versatile. You could get a .357/20ga combo, which would fit all your criteria. Or a .30-30/20 ga, for longer shots on larger game.
-John
Later, I got into .44 magnums. I have an S&W 329 and 4 inch 629. I agree with you, Koyote, that for general use, the .44 magnum is too much in a shorter barrelled revolver. So, I began reloading, and settled on a glorified .44 Special load, in magnum cases, that I mostly shoot these days. Shooting a full house .44 mag load in the 329 is like hitting your hand with a hammer. Not fun. But a 240 gr. lead SWC at 900 fps is smooth as butter. It's also great in the 4 inch 629. I haven't shot a factory load in either pistol in years. I'm not a big reloader; I just load up all my .44 mag brass every couple of years, when I run out, and shoot until it's almost gone.
My point is that you already reload. Why would ammo availability matter? Like most reloaders, you just stock up when you find a deal, and don't worry about it. Find a load you like, that's comfortable and accurate, and it won't be too much for small game.
Now that I'm more into .44 mag, I regret getting a .357 carbine. I see that the .44 mag is so versatile, I think it's a better choice for a pistol/rifle combo. You can shoot low powered loads in pistol and rifle, and then shoot full house loads out of the rifle when you need to step it up.
These same points lend themselves to the .45 Colt. You reload, so no worries about supply. The one advantage is that Marlin 1894s in .44 mag are known to have too slow of twist to stabilize projectiles heavier than 240 gr or so. The .45 colt version are excellent for very heavy projectiles, like 380 grs. This makes the .45 colt rifle a bit more versatile than the .44 mag. Again, light loads for the pistols and rifles, and heavy loads when you need to step it up in the rifle.
Another great choice would be a Savage 24 over/under combination gun. They're lightweight, and extremely versatile. You could get a .357/20ga combo, which would fit all your criteria. Or a .30-30/20 ga, for longer shots on larger game.
-John
If I understand the scenario correctly, it's long-term in regards to resupply issues, but the practical application is what to carry while taking a hike in the area? You (OP) mentioned that the rifle may well be left in the truck on occasion, so you wanted a versatile handgun.
Going from there, I'm thinking as far as the handgun goes, any good quality .357 with a 4" to 6" barrel would fill the role nicely. I'd carry it either in a chest draw or cross draw setup. In the event of unexpected wildlife, that position would be easier to draw from while trying to protect your head/neck from getting munched. For other purposes, that style of carry isn't a huge hindrance or benefit. The versatility of the .357/.38 has already been noted.
I'm going to deviate a bit from the rest of the thread on the long gun, though. I'm having a hard time picturing hauling around and keeping up with the long gun while out just knocking about, exploring,or what have you. I'm going to assume that you have at least a small pack with you in that environment, if for nothing else than to carry water and a bit of medical supplies, lunch, etc. As a vet, I know that keeping track of a long arm while loaded up with other supplies is frankly a PITA. For one thing, unless you're actively hunting (four legged or two legged beasts), you are likely doing something else. That something else may require use of two hands.
So, my thought it why not look to a packable long arm? There are some nice break down .22LRs from Marlin, Browning, and others, if you think your secondary role would be mainly small game getting. I'm not sure if the Handi Rifles break down like a typical single-shot shotgun easily (though I suspect they do), but one of those or on the higher end, a TC rifle, would be good if you decide your secondary role is taking larger game.
Another thought on the single shot rifles with interchangeable barrels is that one gun can provide a backup for a good number of calibers. If you have ammo of a caliber but the gun it's for is in need of repair, then the ammo is fairly useless. Multi-caliber single shots may be a good way to add redundancy economically.
Going from there, I'm thinking as far as the handgun goes, any good quality .357 with a 4" to 6" barrel would fill the role nicely. I'd carry it either in a chest draw or cross draw setup. In the event of unexpected wildlife, that position would be easier to draw from while trying to protect your head/neck from getting munched. For other purposes, that style of carry isn't a huge hindrance or benefit. The versatility of the .357/.38 has already been noted.
I'm going to deviate a bit from the rest of the thread on the long gun, though. I'm having a hard time picturing hauling around and keeping up with the long gun while out just knocking about, exploring,or what have you. I'm going to assume that you have at least a small pack with you in that environment, if for nothing else than to carry water and a bit of medical supplies, lunch, etc. As a vet, I know that keeping track of a long arm while loaded up with other supplies is frankly a PITA. For one thing, unless you're actively hunting (four legged or two legged beasts), you are likely doing something else. That something else may require use of two hands.
So, my thought it why not look to a packable long arm? There are some nice break down .22LRs from Marlin, Browning, and others, if you think your secondary role would be mainly small game getting. I'm not sure if the Handi Rifles break down like a typical single-shot shotgun easily (though I suspect they do), but one of those or on the higher end, a TC rifle, would be good if you decide your secondary role is taking larger game.
Another thought on the single shot rifles with interchangeable barrels is that one gun can provide a backup for a good number of calibers. If you have ammo of a caliber but the gun it's for is in need of repair, then the ammo is fairly useless. Multi-caliber single shots may be a good way to add redundancy economically.
Here are a few thoughts.
Ability to use the same ammo doesn't matter. I am not saying this to argue but, really. It only matters on the firing range or when you are hunting with others who don't know what they are doing. If the ammo is good for short range in a handgun, it won't be good for long range in a rifle, and vice versa. You will be packing an extra 6-7lbs of gun to get 300fps, or an extra 2.5-3lbs to lose 300fps. If you are planning on carrying two types of ammo for the two different guns, then it doesn't really matter if they take the same load.
.22 is chambered in lighter guns, the ammo is smaller and lighter, cheaper to buy, and more likely to be practiced with. It is easier to carry 200rds of .22 than 50 .357, and often the gun will weigh less as well. While the .44 special could make an excellent small game load, it takes quite a few .22LR to add up to the same amount of weight.
If the guns could be "X" caliber and .22, then you would still only need one set of dies, brass, etc. Also, you wouldn't be limited to revo cartridges for your rifle. Then two arms could be used that could each fill a specific purpose well, IE. small game, long range larger game.
At that point, it would be a question of duration. How many rounds of .22/small game ammo would be required? If less than a couple hundred, then a specialized load for the larger arm may weigh less then a small game handgun and equivalent round count.
I don't mean any of this as an argument, just food for thought. As far as the best dual arm/single ammo combo, I think it would depend on how many rounds you needed to bring vs. how large an animal you thought it necessary to go after.
Ability to use the same ammo doesn't matter. I am not saying this to argue but, really. It only matters on the firing range or when you are hunting with others who don't know what they are doing. If the ammo is good for short range in a handgun, it won't be good for long range in a rifle, and vice versa. You will be packing an extra 6-7lbs of gun to get 300fps, or an extra 2.5-3lbs to lose 300fps. If you are planning on carrying two types of ammo for the two different guns, then it doesn't really matter if they take the same load.
.22 is chambered in lighter guns, the ammo is smaller and lighter, cheaper to buy, and more likely to be practiced with. It is easier to carry 200rds of .22 than 50 .357, and often the gun will weigh less as well. While the .44 special could make an excellent small game load, it takes quite a few .22LR to add up to the same amount of weight.
If the guns could be "X" caliber and .22, then you would still only need one set of dies, brass, etc. Also, you wouldn't be limited to revo cartridges for your rifle. Then two arms could be used that could each fill a specific purpose well, IE. small game, long range larger game.
At that point, it would be a question of duration. How many rounds of .22/small game ammo would be required? If less than a couple hundred, then a specialized load for the larger arm may weigh less then a small game handgun and equivalent round count.
I don't mean any of this as an argument, just food for thought. As far as the best dual arm/single ammo combo, I think it would depend on how many rounds you needed to bring vs. how large an animal you thought it necessary to go after.
Bigfattyt
Gold Member
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I'm with NorCal on his recommendation. I think the firearms he recommends are proven commodities offering modern reliability and preformance at a reasonable cost, while also paying due heritage to the area in which you reside.
I like the caliber choice because its going to be alot easier to find 38 or 357 ammo in a store than any of the others besides 22 lr. I know you'll probably be handloading, but this is something that plays a big role for me. I also think the 38/357 fits better between the shotgun/big game rifle.
Now, for a little more unconventional (and still old school, just not quite as old school) combo that would be really cool if you're handloading:
A Ruger Blackhawk in 30 carbine paired with a surplus M1 carbine. Just think about it
Brandon
I have a .30 carbine in the M1, and a bit different pistol. AMT in .30 carbine. So accurate, and you have 8 shots.
My only problem with the 30 carbine is the lack of different bullet choices. Ball, or round nose soft point, or 110 grain soft point hollows is about what I have found.
The round is a real zinger, and has amazing penetration but a lot of your energy gets lost in the ball round (if you want to see how the sucker penetrates, shoot a bowling ball with it, then try with most other pistol rounds....... 9mm, and .45 both penetrated about the depth of the bullet. The .30 carbine went about 6 inches).
Out of the options the OP listed, I would either take the .357 in lever and revolver (since Grizzly are not a concern...). Enough for other 4 legged critters. Gives the option of .38 special.
Or the .44 mag. Then you still have the option of .44 special, tons of different ammo choices for all applications.
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how about a break action Rifle in .460 S&W Magnum, and a pistol, either in .460, .454 Casull, or .45 Colt. You can fire the .45 and .454 out of a .460. A wide range of power there.
Also, people need to stop calling it .45 "LC" it is .45 Colt.
Also, people need to stop calling it .45 "LC" it is .45 Colt.
Here are a few thoughts.
Ability to use the same ammo doesn't matter. I am not saying this to argue but, really. It only matters on the firing range or when you are hunting with others who don't know what they are doing. If the ammo is good for short range in a handgun, it won't be good for long range in a rifle, and vice versa. You will be packing an extra 6-7lbs of gun to get 300fps, or an extra 2.5-3lbs to lose 300fps. If you are planning on carrying two types of ammo for the two different guns, then it doesn't really matter if they take the same load.
.22 is chambered in lighter guns, the ammo is smaller and lighter, cheaper to buy, and more likely to be practiced with. It is easier to carry 200rds of .22 than 50 .357, and often the gun will weigh less as well. While the .44 special could make an excellent small game load, it takes quite a few .22LR to add up to the same amount of weight.
If the guns could be "X" caliber and .22, then you would still only need one set of dies, brass, etc. Also, you wouldn't be limited to revo cartridges for your rifle. Then two arms could be used that could each fill a specific purpose well, IE. small game, long range larger game.
At that point, it would be a question of duration. How many rounds of .22/small game ammo would be required? If less than a couple hundred, then a specialized load for the larger arm may weigh less then a small game handgun and equivalent round count.
I don't mean any of this as an argument, just food for thought. As far as the best dual arm/single ammo combo, I think it would depend on how many rounds you needed to bring vs. how large an animal you thought it necessary to go after.
^ this mirrors my thoughts
a light, take down .22 rifle (or if something even smaller is needed, a accurate .22 revolver) combined w/ an accurate center fire single shot or bolt rifle suited for NV- me thinks a .257 Roberts or .25-06 would fit the bill pretty nicely
wildmanh
Part time Leather Bender/Sheath maker
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Back in the day there was .45 Colt and .45 Short Colt. Both have the same markings on the rim. People probably started refering to the .45 Colt as .45 lc so they would know you ment the longer of the two. http://www.lasc.us/TaylorLongShort45Colt.htm So as far as I'm concerned, .45 lc is perfectly acceptible and traditional.
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If pressed to pick only 1, and you were well-stocked with components, I'd say either a .357 mag or .41 mag revolver/levergun combo. However, if you bend your criteria a bit and buy 2 lee loaders instead of 1 (to keep things minimalistic), I'd suggest a .357 mag revolver and a .35 Rem levergun -- both shooting hard cast WFN.
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I'm still setting up the reloading table in the new leather room (lacking a roof, still, it's very much not set up yet!)
I have a Lee hand press and some dies. I was using a friend's tumbler in CA, I need to get one out here.
The hand press is a very strong and simple machine, I like it, but I want an O frame or possibly the simplest lee turret for the bench.
If I can find a basic break action, I'm considering moving up to a .375 or 9.3x62 for a big long hunting gun. Or, the H&R buffalo hunter with peeps in 45-70.
For ranges out to 200 right now I'm actually really happy with my best shooting mosin. It has a sporter stock on it right now, and I'll do the turned down bolt handle and get a proper scope mount set up eventually. (though I'd be happy with real peeps). That has taken a deer at ~ 100 yards.
I'm pretty much settled on keeping the .38 for the moment, then making it my wife's gun (she really likes the .22 revolver, but thinks the K-38 is just the smoothest thing ever to fire) once I get a pair of .44 specials. (charter bulldog for small carry and a blackhawk 5.5 in .44 special)
I'll go .357 or .44 on the lever depending, at first, on what I find laying around once I've got shopping money for that. Cabelas out here - every time I've been in- has had 2-6 of each caliber in used marlins and winchesters.