Look what someone found

So, uh, is this thing on the CS site suppose to force the Strider guys to make better knives to compete or something? 'Cause I think they were already improving bits and pieces on their knives before that jailbird/rockstar thing.
 
I too will ask a couple of simple questions. Is it ok to blatenly rip off others designs? (not similar features, but plain steal the design) Is it ok to profit selling those knives, both manufacturer and dealer? I wonder how many here have ever embellished thier back ground. Hmmmm....
 
Spark said:
Ok, dakotared, fair enough. If I'm overstating your "attacks" they how about you eliminate any ambiguous nature of your words. I'll ask you a couple very simple questions: When is it ok to lie about yourself? Is it a good thing to pretend to be something you aren't, or to mislead others? Is it a bad thing to say such behavior is wrong? Should I be punished for highlighting such behavior; documenting it with citations, direct quotes & paperwork?
Click to expand...

Geeze Spark, do we have to go over all this again? I have never said it is OK to lie. It is not. But, if every time someone embellished their own status or product line we all ate our young, there would be nothing left. My perspective is that this type of vitriolic discourse just serves to divide those of us knife enthusiasts who share a terrific common interest, an interest that many people on the outside would like to see destroyed. Perhaps that is just the inevitable consequence of communicating and doing business on the internet.
 
Thanks for the clear and concise response. If it's not ok to lie, then it's not a bad thing to recognize lying as wrongful behavior, correct? Lying is not something we should encourage, correct?

I'm not saying eat the young, stone anyone to death, or anything else. I just can't grasp the mindset of those who'd punish people who are outraged by lying, but support those who do lie. The "eye for an eye" talk especially rings hollow when certain parties have been lashing out for years, but it's only when they are called on their actions that we should "turn the other cheek."

I've never said that Mick Strider cannot make a good knife, in fact, I've praised his skill more than once. I can seperate my admiration for his knifemaking skill from his actions that he's displayed for years, here and elsewhere.

I've succinctly stated my opinion on those actions. I find it utterly hypocritical that those who'd excuse such actions will turn around and attack others for disapproving of this pattern of behavior. Morally, this seems pretty clear to me: you cannot denigrate one without supporting the other.
 
dakotared said:
Geeze Spark, do we have to go over all this again? I have never said it is OK to lie. It is not. .
Click to expand...

You are correct,
In the lesson we are given, we are not shown that doing wrong is "OK"

The challenge to us rather is that in attacking the "splinter" in another's eye we simply dont see the beam in our own.

What is the "beam " here?
Never in my life have I seen a quality website go off the deep end such as with Cold Steel's...
Clearly the zeal to point out the flaws of another man's repuitation have caused them to lose track of what this has done to their own repuitations.

Thus a person ends up being worse than the other person they were attacking in the first place...
The guilt of the other person is no longer the center of our story, it's now the loosed zeal that becomes incharge of the story.
When a person's zeal becomes united with a feeling that there in no chance of being in the wrong, then all future actions against the other person, (no matter how off the deep end they are), become normal looking reactions to us.

This is why people in this story cant see the beam in their own eyes,
This is why people dont want to even think about ending a painfull situation and becoming the "peace maker"
This is also why they pick up stones...

But this is why in the story of the young girl dragged before the Master (That should be our guide here too) that the Master does not defend her actions, rather he stops the mob from going off the deep end and ending up worse than she.
 
Allan,
I can see what you are saying, I think that there are a lot of things at work here.
I have only 1 knife from either company (Bushman) because I do not have much disposable income to spend on knives.
I think some of the venom and passion in people hunting and defending Strider comes from the type of people on either side of the argument.
I do not mean Spark, look at the other 2 or 3 threads about this issue.
The Strider people all seem like a cross between Rambo and the Loony right. The people arguing from this forum against the strider history are the opposites.
There is a massive gap in the outlook of many here, critical of Strider and the Cult following of the Strider clan.
No one will win this one, lets call it a draw and move on.
 
dakotared said:
You may not be, but you are setting the table.
Click to expand...
If we're going to liken this to a meal, with me setting the table, then I'll flesh out the rest of your analogy.

  • It was Mick Strider, not I, who decided to feed everyone a line of BS.
  • It was Mick Strider, not I, decided the meal would last for this long, by starting all of this in 2000 (and possibly earlier), thencontinuing his actions up until last month.
  • It was Mick Strider, not I, who put himself in hot water, by attacking Chris Osman's military record, when (despite his claims) his own is practically non existant.
  • It was Mick Strider, not I, who continued to stir the pot afterwards, ladeling out more servings of BS.
  • I wasn't the first to say "Hey, this banquet that you've laid out smells like bullshit" and I won't be the last. I just read off the menu and offered my opinion.
  • It was people like yourself, who began a feeding frenzy - though instead of telling the cook he'd done a poor job in concocting his offerings, you instead attacked me for daring to point out the mess on our plates, and that his credentials & previous offerings were equally poor.
  • It's was Mick Strider, not I, who decided that rather than put an end to the 7 courses of deception, vitriol, lies, obfuscation, misdirection, self-aggrandizement, and childishness, he'd flee back to the back. All of this could have been readily cleared up with a helping of the truth. Instead, he substituted one bad meal with another, over and over and over again, even after saying he wanted to clear the air. Guess that's just another helping, eh?

So, if you are going to make analogies, be honest about them.

Allan Molstad said:
You are correct,
In the lesson we are given, we are not shown that doing wrong is "OK"
Click to expand...
A good start...

Allan Molstad said:
The challenge to us rather is that in attacking the "splinter" in another's eye we simply dont see the beam in our own.
Click to expand...
If you are going to call Mick Strider's actions a "splinter" his eye and mine a "beam" in mine, I'd say you need to visit an opthamologist, because you are clinically blind and are experiencing visual hallucinations. I also notice the lack of similar counsel against those who'd lash out at me for no reason other than my bringing this matter to light.

Allan Molstad said:
Thus a person ends up being worse than the other person they were attacking in the first place...
Click to expand...
Well, you are entitled to your opinion, no matter how incorrect it may be. Personally, it's my opinion that a greater harm is done by recognizing people are doing bad things, and ignoring it; to me, that is a sign of moral cowardice.

I take no pleasure in this. I feel no glee. There is no zeal here, or I'd be publishing this all over the website and replacing every instance of "Strider" with a link to my original thread. Instead, I put together a lot of material, sourced it, documented my positions, and let it all speak for itself.
 
Danno4017 said:
I have only 1 knife from either company .
Click to expand...
I dont have any knives by any of the players in this story...

The fact is that I just dont like the designs they both seem to use.
To me, their knives are simply attempting "a little too hard" to look like an Army/fighting blade.

It's the hype...
Thats what I dont care for.
The hype all seems a little too over the top for me. Almost like it's all a joke.

People that spend their money for a knife because of the hype that comes with that knife, soon learn that hype alone cant cut it's way out of a paper bag...
 
lfd972 said:
I too will ask a couple of simple questions. Is it ok to blatenly rip off others designs?
(not similar features, but plain steal the design)


Is it ok to profit selling those knives, both manufacturer and dealer?...
Click to expand...

Every knife will always have some parts of the design that come from the other knives that are around.
We all know that we build on the ideas of better designs of the past, while at the same time attempting to stay clear of the errors of past designs too.

The problem comes when company "X" comes up with an interesting design that they sell, and then company"Y" simply takes that same design adds few if any changes, and turns around and sells that same knife ,,,,

Here is where we have a true moral problem with the actions that are clearly out to steal bread off another's table.
This is made all the worse when it becomes clear to us, (via websites perhaps?) , that the actions of company "Y" were not to just get some easy money off the work of Company "X", but rather to do all this in an effort to actually hurt the other company.

Personally, I myself dont really get all that upset when one company steals ideas from another company. Thats life after all.
I understand that this is the way good companies may have to do business.

But I would not order a knife from Company "Y" if I felt that it was selling a ripped-off design as part of a sick effort to hurt the other company.
For then my money would become part of the problem, part of the hurt being caused....

I dont want my money to hurt anyone, I just want a knife, and there are other places to get a knife that dont cause such moral questions...
 
I know this will make me look biased but.......
Has anyone looked in the place where the Strider people hang out?
They are very different types of people, I could say Nutters but they would think thats a compliment, weird is maybe a better word.
I must be getting old I think. :(
 
Sounds like a couple of girls spreading gossip. But instead of girls its a couple of insecure knife makers.... They should just have a knife fight both using their own design and see how that turns out
 
Danno4017 said:
They are very different types of people, I could say Nutters but they would think thats a compliment, weird is maybe a better word.
(
Click to expand...

When we deal with the pro-army/fighting knife types, I just dont get them at all.
I understand that some of the knives that they own and talk about have some great points, but I keep thinking that we are dealing with people that dont really see how weird and silly they appear to the rest of us.

I find the same thing true with the guys that I work with that are always asking me to make them a large fighter type knife.
I just dont see the real point of that design for my world.

I live in a world where I spend lots of time using my blades at work and on the weekends in the woods.
But I dont live in a make-believe world filled with people I might have to stab to death in a midnight ninja attack.
But there are some people that cant get that midnight attack stuff out of their minds.

Thus is the reason there is a large market for such knives...
 
dakotared said:
I guess in my mind anyone who willingly gives up their life in service of this country, no matter the circumstances, is a hero.
Click to expand...
Being a hero and a heroic death are not the same thing. Can you name the 2 that were killed with him, did they recieve silver stars and promotions after they died. Any loss of life is a shame, but this was an instance of some slakjawed PR types who couldn't tell 1 end of a rifle from the other deciding to capitalize on a young mans death because his was a known name.
The bad part of this whole thing is that it will forever tarnish those medals he recieved after his death and consider all the additional pain and suffering it caused and will continue to cause his family.

Enough of this it is not relivent to this thread.
 
Micky said:
The bad part of this whole thing is that it will forever tarnish those medals he recieved after his death and consider all the additional pain and suffering it caused and will continue to cause his family.
.
Click to expand...
I listened to Tilmans mother today on the radio.
She is still angry.
But I dont think she even knowns who she should be angry with, nor why anymore.
The Story of what went wrong seems clear enough to me.

The guy got killed by his own men by accident.
Right after this sad thing happend, the guys in the field as well as the guys up the line decided that they wanted to honor their fallen friend by haveing a better story about the way he died.

IN THAT MOMENT, they didnt understand that they just destroyed what they wanted to save.
In that moment, the moment when they all decided to invent a better death for their dear friend, they only ended up with a new mission to "protect the story"...

"Protect the story", became more important almost right away than the actuall desire the guys had to honor their fallen friend.

The trouble is that once "The Story" became the most important thing, then the next step, "protect yourself" soon came next.
One simple little lie became built on top of other lies...

The men who first decided that to better honor their friend they needed to tell a better story about his death, more than likely hated the war, and hated the pointless death of their friend in this war.
But once they began to lie, there was no way to stop . Soon the death of this guy was being used as a symbol.

The guys who shot Tillman will know the pain of doing that for the rest of their lives...There is no way to get around their guilt in their mistake.
But all that is now getting lost in the web of lies that cant end.

Accidents in war happen.
Wanting to honor a fallen friend with a better story of his death is natural thing to want to do.
Many times we have heard someone say, "They didnt suffer, their death was fast and they felt no pain", but later this turns out to be an invented story to help the family deal better with their loss.

But once you walk down that path, you get lost after the first step.

The only answer is that, (as painfull as it will always be), the truth still has to be seen as the best way to go.
 
Allan Molstad said:
The only answer is that, (as painfull as it will always be), the truth still has to be seen as the best way to go.
Click to expand...


And yet you still seem to believe that speaking "the truth" makes Spark as bad as or worse than those whose lies he revealed.

how....contradictory. not to mention, hypocritical.
 
roughedges said:
And yet you still seem to believe that speaking "the truth" makes Spark as bad as or worse than those whose lies he revealed.

how....contradictory. not to mention, hypocritical.
Click to expand...
In our lesson that should be our guide...

They dragged a young girl before the Master who was clearly guilty.
They had all the proof of her guilt.
Their hearts were filled with the zeal of people who are totally sure of the correctness of their actions.
They picked up rocks...

The Master does not defend the young girl.

But he does point out that what really is going on here has NOTHING to do with the many falts of that young girl!!!!!

This is why He gives us the lesson of the splinter and the beam.
For when you are so concerned with the flaws of your brother you become blind to the much bigger flaws you have created within yourself by your zeal to expose the sins of another.

Now return to the lesson, see yourself there within the story.
What side are you on?
Are you standing with the Master. ...or clutching a rock?
 
roughedges said:
And yet you still seem to believe that speaking "the truth" makes Spark as bad as or worse than those whose lies he revealed.
Click to expand...
I think I have not attacked nor defended anyone in this story.
The reason is that I think such action would be pointless....and would lead to a temptation to cause harm to others as well even to myself and my walk.

But I have struggled to point out that there is another path out of this dark woods.

I look at post after post on this same topic, and all I see are paths that forever turn around and dive back into the same darkened land.
But I believe there is another way, another path that the people in this story could take to free themselves from endless bickerings and bitterness.

To forgive.
To seek to do good to the very ones who now are our targets and we theirs...
To turn the other cheak to past mistakes and hurts.
To be known as a peacemaker, and no longer as just one voice in the din of the mob.
To drop the rocks...
 
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