M390 VS ZDP-189 Rope Cutting - Informal testing

Angry? Please! Yes, I have "gift" to tell what I see, and not quite in the age when saying "King is naked!" is excusable by everybody. In Russia, culture prepare you to survive and in such condition lie is not what helps everybody to survive, even it is pleasant and sweet. Like "Guys we are not surrounded by enemy and have plenty of ammunition - nothing to worry about!"... Or - "We need to check Green - I see some movement in there and we have only one Zinc left"...

Here in US everybody doing business and advertisement is big part of this business.

Now if I see that Spyderco is lowering standard handling warranty claimes - I say so because before Spyderco does not care if I disassemble knife once I did not break it (printed on every paperwork which came with box) - now warranty is void if it was disassembled even in an accurate way - like once I oil it. I guess this make Spyderco uncomfortable, but this is what it is - one policy before - another one now. And I do not tell you what to do about this - I just state warranty policy changed and not as good as it was.

If I see uneven grind - I will say so as well, this is lower then industry standards - all other knives for Spyderco as well as other manufacturers has grind perfectly centered on other knives. I see it - I state it. Sorry if you do not like it, but you may check Walker CF-ZDP189 and any other knife.

If I see that even with possible micro work hardening on H1 it is performs lower then 420HC, what can I do - I say what I see.

I am sorry if you do not like what I say, but I am not angree or anything. I actually do not care. This is my Russian culture, in survival situation if you see something wrong you have to say this, so then it may be fixed.

You seems like taking it as an attack, as demand from me to rule you business some way. Heck no! You can keep you standards the way you pleased - after all you are making money.

But again I can not say "-Everything is just perfect, nothing to worry!" this is for advertisement department.

I see lately only depressive news from Spyderco, sorry. But of course you are the boss and I am not telling you what to do.

And if I state that you are not publishing you results and so I see no value in your testing for me - are they published? No. So what is wrong with what I just sad? There is very little information available and what I have is almost all what everybody have.

I am very hopeful on what Ankerson doing. I hope he will listen to my suggestion, because I am doing this for over 5 years and already went through what he is going through right now.

Thanks, Vassili.
 
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Ankerson's wrists will give out with all these new steels. Seriously Jim, Vassili is right. Watch those wrists. I've got "owies" that come back to haunt me like ghosts. That's why we buy machines.

sal


Hi Sal,

You might be right, I think I need to start wrapping my wrist, I have strong wrists, but likely not that strong. :D

If you have watched my Busse Chopping videos you would get the idea. :)


Jim


Just me and one of my Busses. :)

DSC_0388.JPG
 
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It seems that for some reason you are disappointed in and dislike our company. I don't know what we might have done to deserve such a position, but I'm sure you do. Perhaps in time, we might perform in such a way to win you over?

Thanx,

sal

Send him free knives, Sal....he will shut up about all his issues with Spyderco real quick.

Vassilli is the current resident Cleft Stump wannabe...only bad thing is, nobody can understand 1/2 of what he says because of the purposeful butchering of English.

You go for the diplomacy, amigo, I'll go for the Achilles tendon.;)

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
 
broos your cogent summation was probably the best description of these cutting demos. i'm certainly in agreement with your conclusions. vassili i think it's time for you to move on & start some more constructive activities for yourself & if you still care: for the forum. Thanks dennis
 
A quick Google search found me the CATRA results (or at least some of them) from a few years back released by Spyderco. I couldn't find the original thread, but the results were quoted on the Spyderco forum. Here they are:

440C 360-400

VG10 500-510

S30V 550-580

S90V 750

ZDP-189 750

S125V 1200
 
We make Mule Team models so you can test steels. Our next 4 Mule Teams are a Takefu Damascus, Hitachi's Aogami Super Blue, Takefu Cobalt Special and Uddehom's M390. We picked these because they seemed interesting or the steel junky's asked for them. Upward and Onward; Unobtanium, Salium and Vassilium in the future.

Sal, Sorry to have to tell you this but I'm obliged. If you don't make me some sprints using cruware, and powder steel vascowear ( PD#1), you are in danger of having clouds of locusts attack your factory and eat up all the spyderco boxes.

It came to me in a dream. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news. :eek:

E-mail me when my knives are ready. :)

Thanks, and regards, Joe/raleigh
 
What're the traits of Cruware and PD#1, Joe? (Must be pretty dang awesome :) )

Oh, and save me a factory second of whatever he's getting :D
 
It's just the old cold work tool steel "vascowear", used for a while in Gerber Sportsmen 2's as "V" steel back in the 80's. It's the uncle of 3V, sort of. It's a bit tougher, and more wear resistant than D2. About M2 levels of wear resistance ( RC 65 M2 vs RC 61 vascowear)

Not as tough as 3V ( don't know about the PM version, just have experience with the ingot, wrought stuff)

Crucible calls it Cruware.

It's not a knifemakers favorite as it tends to work harden when it gets too hot during grinding.

It's tough stuff, with good edge stability. Not a chopping steel like 3V, but it's stubborn and resists stuff like scraping well. I've initialed I beams with it like wood. :)

It's kind of a joke. I've pestered Sal about it for 5 or 6 years now. I honestly don't expect it too ever get to be a popular steel.
 
Thanx Joe,

I have one of the older Gerbers with "V" steel and I looked into it back then when I was impressed with the steel.

I'll put it on my list. Frank says it's available.

sal
 
I just realize watching different post with this 710 M390, that Ankerson has blade without coating. Mine is coated, as well as all other BM I tested before (Area and 710 M2). Now I am start wondering if coating process may affect heat treatment and make knife perform less?

Thanks, Vassili.
 
Is the coating DLC or one of the coatings that is essentially a souped-up techno-paint? The later cure at temps that couldn't affect the heat treat/temper results. I can't speak about DLC.
 
Sal, I have a few extra pounds of Cruware lying around. If you ever want to try some just say the word and I'll send it.

Joe
 
probably not, looks like M390 hits secondary hardening when tempering around 930F, and M2 & CPM-M4 temper over 1000F. The coatings wouldn't be applied at those temps, and BM should know what they're doing when choosing surface treatments against the particular alloys.
 
Is the coating DLC or one of the coatings that is essentially a souped-up techno-paint? The later cure at temps that couldn't affect the heat treat/temper results. I can't speak about DLC.
DLC goes on at relatively low temps as well, 400F and such.
 
...In Russia, culture prepare you to survive and in such condition lie is not what helps everybody to survive, even it is pleasant and sweet.
In Russia culture prepares or teaches you to survive in conditions when everyone starting from borders customs ending with every govt. official is rude and is lying most of the time. Reminiscent of Soviet culture being resurrected by Putin, cheered by you.

One can tell truth in many ways, w/o being rude too. The problem is you're not really telling the truth, it's your version of things and for you everything else is a lie.

Like "Guys we are not surrounded by enemy and have plenty of ammunition - nothing to worry about!"... Or - "We need to check Green - I see some movement in there and we have only one Zinc left"...
Common problem with Russia, always surrounded by enemies. While invading them. Never asking themselves, why every single neighbor they have is their enemy anyway.

Here in US everybody doing business and advertisement is big part of this business.
Rrrright. And in Russia, there is no advertisement :) Businesses get along without it. I think you miss Soviet era, when there was no advertisement, simply because there was nothing to advertise, if anything better than "total crap" appeared in stores it was gone in minutes.

This is my Russian culture, in survival situation if you see something wrong you have to say this, so then it may be fixed.
What survival are you babbling about, you were living in CA for last 10+ years, and bragging about it on Russian forums, before you get kicked out.

I see lately only depressive news from Spyderco, sorry.
Take Zanax, Zoloft, or alternatively leave Spyderco and its reviews alone.

But of course you are the boss and I am not telling you what to do.
To the contrary. You clearly are giving advices left and right.

I hope he will listen to my suggestion, because I am doing this for over 5 years and already went through what he is going through right now.
I sure hope he won't.
 
Sal, I have a few extra pounds of Cruware lying around. If you ever want to try some just say the word and I'll send it.

Joe

Enough to make a couple of test mules would be great. Our mules are 2 X 4 inches. 1/8" thick. How hard is optimal?

Of course we can also get some from Crucible and make a model with it. Maybe a UK FRN?

sal
 
oh man, if the slipit mules come to fruition, with a PD#1 or DC53 as the first steel. I must not dance a jig... must not dance a jig.

oh, I call it first on naming them burros. :D
 
Hardheart, if you don't mind me asking, what DC53 are you excited about?
I got DC53 as D2 equivalent from Daido, and another DC53 steel made by International steel, dunno what country though...
Anything else?
 
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