Magnacut from Bestech?

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Knives&Lint said:
At the very least it is bad form, and by definition it's shady. Personally I think it's tacky and kinda gross. I wonder if reviewers will be too busy making content with them to get all up in arms about "the community" 🤔
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Any commercial use of the word Magnacut unauthorized by Crucible (who owns US trademark 90618297), e.g., printed on the blade, in collateral, specs, etc., is similar to theft. Doesn’t matter who sold the knife maker the steel. It’s like „owning“ a stolen good sold to you by a fence.

Legally very similar to copying a knife design. Doesn’t matter who gave you the blueprint. Or distributing another photographer’s photo as yours without a license. Etc.

Might not be enforceable in China, but that’s another story.
 
Chronovore said:
On whose part? I mean, if you ran a Chinese company and you could buy the hot new steel from your supplier, you wouldn't?
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I can't say what I would do were I head of a Chinese knife company. I can say that in the businesses I have been involved with I have often sacrificed profits in order to carry myself in a certain way and do what I feel is the right thing. Furthermore, as a knife enthusiast, the churning out of the hot newness is not interesting to me. I'd be more impressed if they used it as incentive for actual innovation.
 
Chronovore said:
On whose part? I mean, if you ran a Chinese company and you could buy the hot new steel from your supplier, you wouldn't?
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Of course you would because you know that US laws don't pertain to you and you can't be prosecuted for using it.
However, if you are actually not supposed to be buying or using Magnacut, once you send those knives made from it to the US there is no reason why they shouldn't be considered illegal contraband and seized accordingly no matter which mainstream retailer is selling them.
 
Chronovore said:
On whose part? I mean, if you ran a Chinese company and you could buy the hot new steel from your supplier, you wouldn't?
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I don't think anyone blames the Chinese company, if anyone's to be blamed here, it's the dishonest secondary company who decided that the steel's copyright holder/intellectual property owners wishes didn't apply to them. 🤷
 
Knives&Lint said:
I can't say what I would do were I head of a Chinese knife company. I can say that in the businesses I have been involved with I have often sacrificed profits in order to carry myself in a certain way and do what I feel is the right thing. Furthermore, as a knife enthusiast, the churning out of the hot newness is not interesting to me. I'd be more impressed if they used it as incentive for actual innovation.
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Arathol said:
Of course you would because you know that US laws don't pertain to you and you can't be prosecuted for using it.
However, if you are actually not supposed to be buying or using Magnacut, once you send those knives made from it to the US there is no reason why they shouldn't be considered illegal contraband and seized accordingly no matter which mainstream retailer is selling them.
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Again though, this is assuming that they did anything wrong by using a steel that they purchased and listing it correctly as the steel that was used. Can anyone confirm whether ferider ferider is correct about them not being able to use the word "MagnaCut" on a blade made of MagnaCut?

That said, for those who are apparently upset by this, how about all of the major retailers, including some of those who support this forum, that are carrying these knives Chinese knives in MagnaCut and S45VN?
 
Chronovore said:
Again though, this is assuming that they did anything wrong by using a steel that they purchased and listing it correctly as the steel that was used. Can anyone confirm whether ferider ferider is correct about them not being able to use the word "MagnaCut" on a blade made of MagnaCut?

That said, for those who are apparently upset by this, how about all of the major retailers, including some of those who support this forum, that are carrying these knives Chinese knives in MagnaCut and S45VN?
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Crucible set a limitation that Magnacut steel can only be sold to companies certain countries. Neither China nor Taiwan are on the approved list.
 
nsm

Post in thread 'Magnacut in Chinese knives'

Hvactech said:
I've been noticing several different knives manufactured in China lately with Magnacut blades. I thought I read when it first came on the scene that it wasn't going to be sold to Chinese manufacturers for first five years or something along those lines? I'm not trying to start a whole American vs Chinese knives in this thread so please keep the politics out of the discussion please. It honestly doesn't matter to me either way as I collect mostly American made knives, but I do own and enjoy my share of Asian made ones as well. I was just wondering if something has changed or if these...
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It appears there has been some unauthorized sales of MagnaCut steel, specifically involving Besttech at the Blade Show.
  1. Distribution Policy: MagnaCut is not currently being sold to any distributors in Asia. Crucible confiscated some MagnaCut knives from Besttech at the Blade Show because they violated the MagnaCut trademark. The knives tested were confirmed to be made from genuine MagnaCut.
  2. Unknown Source: It is unclear how Besttech or others have obtained the MagnaCut.
  3. Communication with Distributors: Discussions have been held with authorized distributors to reinforce the rules, emphasizing that any violations could jeopardize their ability to sell MagnaCut in the future.
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The link I posted in the previous post is to a post from Niagara Specialty Metals., Above is the text of his post.,
 
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As Knarfeng says about I brought this up a while ago. I remember reading when this all came about In the beginning that Asian countries weren't supposed to be able to get Magnacut for five years.
 
Chronovore said:
Again though, this is assuming that they did anything wrong by using a steel that they purchased and listing it correctly as the steel that was used. Can anyone confirm whether ferider ferider is correct about them not being able to use the word "MagnaCut" on a blade made of MagnaCut?

That said, for those who are apparently upset by this, how about all of the major retailers, including some of those who support this forum, that are carrying these knives Chinese knives in MagnaCut and S45VN?
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This is a rather disingenuous debate tactic so maybe let's not do that, ok? No one is "upset". The implication that people are just being emotional is usually used to disguise a lack of a rational counterargument. Bestech bought this steel from a company who is violating the trademark of the product's intellectual property owners by having sold it to them. Simply put, American steel companies and the steel's creators/producers don't want Chinese companies having it. That's it, that's the situation. Frankly, this situation actually makes me want to never support Bestech in any way after having done this. The more I think about it, the more it's clear that they knew what they were doing. They know they aren't supposed to have that steel, or be offering products with it. So, they went around what is effectively an embargo of this specific product so they could obtain it, create the knives, and sell them.
 
Quiet said:
Frankly, this situation actually makes me want to never support Bestech in any way after having done this. The more I think about it, the more it's clear that they knew what they were doing. They know they aren't supposed to have that steel, or be offering products with it. So, they went around what is effectively an embargo of this specific product so they could obtain it, create the knives, and sell them
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I feel the same way. When I reached out to the dealer about the legality of their exclusive, I got a rather disingenuous and I’d say rude answer back. KnoCked that dealer off of my trusted list. They know they’re violating NSM’s trademark and simply do not care. Almost like people selling counterfeit purses.
 
knarfeng said:
Crucible set a limitation that Magnacut steel can only be sold to companies certain countries. Neither China nor Taiwan are on the approved list.
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Another question is whether or not American companies who use said Chinese companies as OEMs can legally purchase the steel and send it to them.

Obviously, some of these companies are using MC in their own lineups, but, as an example, Reate is still sticking with M390 as their prime high-end steel and hasn’t used MC on anything made for their own lineup.
 
Quiet said:
This is a rather disingenuous debate tactic so maybe let's not do that, ok? No one is "upset". The implication that people are just being emotional is usually used to disguise a lack of a rational counterargument. Bestech bought this steel from a company who is violating the trademark of the product's intellectual property owners by having sold it to them. Simply put, American steel companies and the steel's creators/producers don't want Chinese companies having it. That's it, that's the situation. Frankly, this situation actually makes me want to never support Bestech in any way after having done this. The more I think about it, the more it's clear that they knew what they were doing. They know they aren't supposed to have that steel, or be offering products with it. So, they went around what is effectively an embargo of this specific product so they could obtain it, create the knives, and sell them.
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Nothing is disingenuous in my approach. I could be wrong but some people seemed to be upset about this. It's okay to have feelings about things and feelings are real.

I wasn't trying to trick anyone. You don't have to be mad to make assumptions about the people running the multiple Chinese companies now using MagnaCut or S45VN. (For instance, "The more I think about it, the more it's clear that they knew what they were doing.") I suppose you don't have to be mad to express a punitive response either. (For instance, "Frankly, this situation actually makes me want to never support Bestech in any way after having done this.") I just wondered about the breakdown of where that... whatever you want to call it besides emotion... belongs and if any should be directed at the supporting dealers who are choosing to carry those products.
 
Quiet said:
This is a rather disingenuous debate tactic so maybe let's not do that, ok? No one is "upset". The implication that people are just being emotional is usually used to disguise a lack of a rational counterargument.
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If people weren't upset they wouldn't be complaining about it.

Quiet said:
Bestech bought this steel from a company who is violating the trademark of the product's intellectual property owners by having sold it to them. Simply put, American steel companies and the steel's creators/producers don't want Chinese companies having it. That's it, that's the situation. Frankly, this situation actually makes me want to never support Bestech in any way after having done this. The more I think about it, the more it's clear that they knew what they were doing. They know they aren't supposed to have that steel, or be offering products with it. So, they went around what is effectively an embargo of this specific product so they could obtain it, create the knives, and sell them.
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Why stop at Bestech? Of course they knew as do the rest. You think they care? The flood gates are open now, there is no stopping it. It doesn't matter who wants who to have what, once its sold to a distributor its out of their control.
What did the American companies think was going to happen? There is no legal recourse, this isn't the same as prohibited transfer of technology for National Security reasons. Its just a relatively minor civil dispute. They have it, now they can make it, there is nothing anybody can do about it except spend millions on lawyers to try to stop its importation, and thats not going to happen without forcing somebody into bankruptcy.

Chronovore has good point about why some major dealers that are supporting paid dealer members on this forum are also selling Chinese made Magnacut knives from any manufacturer. Discussion of any cloned / stolen intellectual property (ie knives that are copies of popular designs) is prohibited on this forum to protect IP rights of knife designers and makers. The best way to stop the flood is to turn off the tap. Put pressure on the dealers that are selling that stuff, hit them where it hurts, ie the bottom line.
 
Chronovore said:
Nothing is disingenuous in my approach. I could be wrong but some people seemed to be upset about this. It's okay to have feelings about things and feelings are real.

I wasn't trying to trick anyone. You don't have to be mad to make assumptions about the people running the multiple Chinese companies now using MagnaCut or S45VN. (For instance, "The more I think about it, the more it's clear that they knew what they were doing.") I suppose you don't have to be mad to express a punitive response either. (For instance, "Frankly, this situation actually makes me want to never support Bestech in any way after having done this.") I just wondered about the breakdown of where that... whatever you want to call it besides emotion... belongs and if any should be directed at the supporting dealers who are choosing to carry those products.
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By attempting to make this about feelings, it comes as dismissive and condescending. No one in this thread is upset that I've seen. As I have already laid out the scenerio, I don't think there's much more to be said on that front. Secondly, it's not an emotional reaction on my (or anyone else's) part to decide that a company who is breaking our laws in order to sell products because Chinese companies do not care about US Trademark or Patent/Intellectual Property laws is not worth giving a dime to. That's actually quite a rational decision.

I do agree on the dealers who are supporting this theft by selling these knives, and since I have become aware of this, there are a couple of companies I won't be giving future business to as a result.
 
Arathol said:
If people weren't upset they wouldn't be complaining about it.


Why stop at Bestech? Of course they knew as do the rest. You think they care? The flood gates are open now, there is no stopping it. It doesn't matter who wants who to have what, once its sold to a distributor its out of their control.
What did the American companies think was going to happen? There is no legal recourse, this isn't the same as prohibited transfer of technology for National Security reasons. Its just a relatively minor civil dispute. They have it, now they can make it, there is nothing anybody can do about it except spend millions on lawyers to try to stop its importation, and thats not going to happen without forcing somebody into bankruptcy.

Chronovore has good point about why some major dealers that are supporting paid dealer members on this forum are also selling Chinese made Magnacut knives from any manufacturer. Discussion of any cloned / stolen intellectual property (ie knives that are copies of popular designs) is prohibited on this forum to protect IP rights of knife designers and makers. The best way to stop the flood is to turn off the tap. Put pressure on the dealers that are selling that stuff, hit them where it hurts, ie the bottom line.
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You're making my primary point for me, as well as supporting my second point, which I appreciate.

You might also want to look up the word "upset", unless of course, like Chronovore Chronovore you're attempting a reach at hyperbole? No one here is upset.
 
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