Magnacut from Bestech?

[Arathol]

I'm not trying to make any ones point here, just pointing out some stuff that should be obvious to all. If it happens to coincide with your opinion so be it.

You might also want to look up the word "upset", unless of course, like Chronovore you're attempting a reach at hyperbole? No one here is upset.

Upset- to make someone worried, unhappy, or angry

You seem unhappy or angry by this given the fact that you have decided to stop buying from certain dealers due to their actions, therefore you are upset by definition....

 

[Hvactech]

Alright fellas gonna get it shut down no one is angry I don't believe.

 

[Quiet]

I'm not trying to make any ones point here, just pointing out some stuff that should be obvious to all. If it happens to coincide with your opinion so be it.





Upset- to make someone worried, unhappy, or angry

You seem unhappy or angry by this given the fact that you have decided to stop buying from certain dealers due to their actions, therefore you are upset by definition....

You seem angry that others are posting here, is that true? My post appears to have upset you. Why?

 

[knarfeng]

Gents, Back on topic or the thread will be closed.

 

[Arathol]

You seem angry that others are posting here, is that true? My post appears to have upset you. Why?

ummmm....whut?

 

[knarfeng]

Gents, Back on topic or the thread will be closed.

 

[Quiet]

ummmm....whut?

The lesson to be learned here is that if you try some amateur hour "yuO muST Be UPseT!" schtick, you should be prepared for it to be served back to you.

 

[Hvactech]

Three two one....

 

[Jdottinger]

Before the thread gets shut down, I’m predicting the exclusives will be addressed by the dealer in a week or 2. They like to steal topics from the forums and claim they were asked about it. I’ve got receipts from me reaching out and the response I received. Basically, it doesn’t matter if they’re violating a trademark by advertising the name. Nsm confirmed Bestech uses real mc so that’s good enough for them.

Them using magnacut on the blade and in advertisements is my sticking point. Label it as “that new hotness” steel and I really wouldn’t care. The name “magnacut” provides value and appears to be protected.

 

[Arathol]

Before the thread gets shut down, I’m predicting the exclusives will be addressed by the dealer in a week or 2. They like to steal topics from the forums and claim they were asked about it. I’ve got receipts from me reaching out and the response I received. Basically, it doesn’t matter if they’re violating a trademark by advertising the name. Nsm confirmed Bestech uses real mc so that’s good enough for them.

Them using magnacut on the blade and in advertisements is my sticking point. Label it as “that new hotness” steel and I really wouldn’t care. The name “magnacut” provides value and appears to be protected.

Well, if they are making money on this, you won't see any changes unless they are forced to change.
Doesn't matter if the issue is the name or the actual product, its all the same. Somebody sold the stuff to somebody who wasn't supposed to get it. Changing the name doesn't make it right.

 

[Chronovore]

Before the thread gets shut down, I’m predicting the exclusives will be addressed by the dealer in a week or 2. They like to steal topics from the forums and claim they were asked about it. I’ve got receipts from me reaching out and the response I received. Basically, it doesn’t matter if they’re violating a trademark by advertising the name. Nsm confirmed Bestech uses real mc so that’s good enough for them.

Them using magnacut on the blade and in advertisements is my sticking point. Label it as “that new hotness” steel and I really wouldn’t care. The name “magnacut” provides value and appears to be protected.

Coincidentally, Bestech's knives in MagnaCut now say "M-Cut" on their website...

 

[Jdottinger]

Well, if they are making money on this, you won't see any changes unless they are forced to change.
Doesn't matter if the issue is the name or the actual product, its all the same. Somebody sold the stuff to somebody who wasn't supposed to get it. Changing the name doesn't make it right.

I don’t necessarily disagree but it doesn’t alleviate the trademark infringement issue. Steels come in all sorts of name. I’m certain some companies identify 10cr as vg10 because the composition is the same/very similar. I doubt companies in China are importing vg10 instead of buying country made 10cr.

M390/20cv/204p are essentially the same steel and each name are generally accepted to represent the same or very similar chemical composition. Personally, I prefer carpenter 204p over nsm 20cv. Even though they’re almost identical. The name means something. I understand they’re using legit mc but this reminds me of when Microtech dealt with employees making and selling knives that weren’t authorized. Legit and 100% authentic but were not authorized by the trademark holder.

 

[Jdottinger]

Coincidentally, Bestech's knives in MagnaCut now say "M-Cut" on their website...

Of course it does. The name is what really matters, not the composition. MC is that new hotness, a key selling point. M-cut doesn’t carry the same weight.

 

[Arathol]

I don’t necessarily disagree but it doesn’t alleviate the trademark infringement issue. Steels come in all sorts of name. I’m certain some companies identify 10cr as vg10 because the composition is the same/very similar. I doubt companies in China are importing vg10 instead of buying country made 10cr.

M390/20cv/204p are essentially the same steel and each name are generally accepted to represent the same or very similar chemical composition. Personally, I prefer carpenter 204p over nsm 20cv. Even though they’re almost identical. The name means something. I understand they’re using legit mc but this reminds me of when Microtech dealt with employees making and selling knives that weren’t authorized. Legit and 100% authentic but were not authorized by the trademark holder.

Trademarks are one thing, patents are another. If the steel is patent protected in any way it doesn't matter what they call it.

 

[Jdottinger]

Trademarks are one thing, patents are another. If the steel is patent protected in any way it doesn't matter what they call it.

I agree, the name appears to be protected. Can’t speak on the composition. Bestech seems to be admitting guilt by changing the name of the steel on their own site. They either developed a new steel or realized you can’t advertise protected trademarks without proper authorization.

If I buy 1000 McDoubles through DoorDash for my own restaurant, I can’t advertise that I’m using McDoubles or a McDonald’s product without written consent. Even though I purchased them legally. The names are protected and add exorbitant value . Right or wrong, it is what it is.

 

[Quiet]

Trademarks are one thing, patents are another. If the steel is patent protected in any way it doesn't matter what they call it.

Agreed. Also, it seems like both are happening according to NSM's comment on page one:

MagnaCut is not available in Asia at this time so they are getting it through unauthorized channels. Bestech is violating Crucible's trademark.

MagnaCut, both the steel and the trademarked name, neither should be in the hands of, or constituting any part of products made by, companies in Asian countries at this time.

Now, I am sure every single Chinese knife company has purchased American made knives in the steel so they can learn more about it, it's even possible that they have created their own batches given the tremendous amount of information about the steel on the internet. So, I guess that does raise the question: did Bestech source this steel through a secondary deal with an American company who wasn't supposed to sell it? Or is this Chinese created Magnacut, and their crime here is in having called it Magnacut? knarfeng posted a link to another thread where it was mentioned that Bestech had some Magnacut knives confiscated while at BLADE that, after testing, were shown to be genuine Magnacut, so I am leaning towards it being the former, in that they've found a supplier for the steel from an American company here. Either way, they definitely shouldn't be using the name Magnacut, or any derivative name that will make a buyer understand that it's Magnacut. They know what they're doing. MC is the hotness on the market, and they want a piece of it. That was more important than honoring the current situation with the suppliers of the steel. As Chronovore said, the cat is definitely out of the bag, and I'm sure for many, it won't be an issue at all. For me, my viewpoint is to see Bestech, and any other Chinese company now profiting from yet another "borrowed" American technology in a negative light. And yes, for me, that will extend to the knife purveyers online who don't care that once again, an American intellectual property was taken and is being used without permission. That's the extent of the political talk from me.

 

[knarfeng]

As I understand the issue, the outfit in violation of Crucible's requirements is the distributor who sold the steel to Bestech. Once Bestech possesses the steel, they are not violating any thing by using it. But they cannot call it "Magnacut", because the name is trademarked.

 

[Jdottinger]

As I understand the issue, the outfit in violation of Crucible's requirements is the distributor who sold the steel to Bestech. Once Bestech possesses the steel, they are not violating any thing by using it. But they cannot call it "Magnacut", because the name is trademarked.

If we’re talking about the same outfit, their website clearly shows a picture with “magnacut” on the blade and they also advertise is as being mc and an exclusive. Pics pulled directly from their site 2 minutes ago. I believe this will be addressed soon.

As I mentioned earlier, I emailed them and got a rather poor response. Nsm tested the steel, it came back as “magnacut”. That’s good enough for them.

*edit- I believe I may have misunderstood your post. The distributor you speak of is the steel distributor not the company that is selling the exclusive.

 

[knarfeng]

I was talking about the steel distributor, A manufacturer can place limitations on his distributors. Once the item is sold the manufacturer has no further control over the item or material.

 

[Leo Greer]

I’ll make the point that if we’re throwing Bestech under the bus we should also be throwing Maxace and Artisan Cutlery/CJRB under the bus, as well as any dealers that carry their knives.

I’m still curious about the legal aspect of American companies using MC in their China-OEMed products, as the product is still American owned and sold, only being processed in China.

For that purpose I would continue to hold Reate in proper regard as they haven’t yet used MC in their own knives and instead only in knives made for American companies (who own the knife and the steel throughout the process, so ownership was never Reate’s).