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Hey Thurin nice job on the sheath, I had been tempted to try the prongs too but wasn't sure how well they would work. Did you fold your sheath over and put the welt in and punch through everything all at once?
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Making a pouch sheath - Apprentice Thread.
- Thread starter Diomedes Industries
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Thanks PaG.
I punched each one separately, punching through from grain side up. I stared in the bottom corner where the stitches come together and worked out from there. Using the 3 hole punch, I overlapped one prong each punch so that it was consistent the whole way up. They lined up really well. The only place I had any issue was when I glued the welt, I misaligned it sideways every so slightly in about a 1 inch section in the middle.
Using the needles to line everything up while gluing made it pretty easy.
After gluing up, I used a stitching awl to go through each hole, making sure they were lined up and to punch through the glue, etc.
I'm tempted to try the drill press method at my father-in-law's so I can compare the two.
I punched each one separately, punching through from grain side up. I stared in the bottom corner where the stitches come together and worked out from there. Using the 3 hole punch, I overlapped one prong each punch so that it was consistent the whole way up. They lined up really well. The only place I had any issue was when I glued the welt, I misaligned it sideways every so slightly in about a 1 inch section in the middle.
Using the needles to line everything up while gluing made it pretty easy.
After gluing up, I used a stitching awl to go through each hole, making sure they were lined up and to punch through the glue, etc.
I'm tempted to try the drill press method at my father-in-law's so I can compare the two.
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Thanks for the info Thurin, I was worried it would have trouble keeping the holes aligned between the two sides and the welt using the punch prong. I used the drill press method on mine and it worked really well after I figured out what size needle to drill with. I had the sheath folded over and the welt glued on one side and drilled through everything at once to make sure the holes would all line up for stitching.
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This has gone larger than I thought it would - and I hope it continues to go larger.
Today Write2Drgray happened to be in the neighborhood, so he stopped over and we made a sheath together as part of this series. We sat down - cut the sheath out - made some design decisions and made a sheath all the way up to the dye point. He has to catch a plane tomorrow - so I will be finishing this up for him.
It was a pleasure to hang out with another board maker - pass along what was passed on to me - and talk a little mess.
Excuse the crappy photo - but I figured I would post this for posterity's sake.
TF
p.s. Thurin - thanks for taking the time to become the teacher as well. I know at times the stuff I do automatically - is not explained - that is where you guys come along and take the time to write up your experience.
Awesome. Love that you used stitching prongs and made it YOUR style. Good work again.
Today Write2Drgray happened to be in the neighborhood, so he stopped over and we made a sheath together as part of this series. We sat down - cut the sheath out - made some design decisions and made a sheath all the way up to the dye point. He has to catch a plane tomorrow - so I will be finishing this up for him.
It was a pleasure to hang out with another board maker - pass along what was passed on to me - and talk a little mess.
Excuse the crappy photo - but I figured I would post this for posterity's sake.
TF
p.s. Thurin - thanks for taking the time to become the teacher as well. I know at times the stuff I do automatically - is not explained - that is where you guys come along and take the time to write up your experience.
Awesome. Love that you used stitching prongs and made it YOUR style. Good work again.
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DrGray's sheath is done.
TF
TF
schmittie
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It's a blizzard outside currently. We are supposed to get maybe 8" on top of the 3" we already had. Winds are 25-35 mph and I'm stuck inside. I was really hoping to go to the hobby store for a few tools but it's not going to happen today. I'm going crazy in this house!
I'm going to start my sheath. Here are some of what I'm working with. The sticker on the leather from Tandy says this is 6/7 oz leather shoulder. A little thick I think, but I'm going to give it a go.
I did manage to cut a piece of antler and sand it smooth for burnishing. I have to admit I really enjoyed watching the video last night TF. The one liners are great!! Don't worry, I'm not going to eat any potato chips.
Since I don't have a drill press I'm following Thurin and using a 4 prong stitch chisel. I'll see how far I get today and post up a pic later.
Thanks again TF. This thread has been wonderful.
I'm going to start my sheath. Here are some of what I'm working with. The sticker on the leather from Tandy says this is 6/7 oz leather shoulder. A little thick I think, but I'm going to give it a go.
I did manage to cut a piece of antler and sand it smooth for burnishing. I have to admit I really enjoyed watching the video last night TF. The one liners are great!! Don't worry, I'm not going to eat any potato chips.
Since I don't have a drill press I'm following Thurin and using a 4 prong stitch chisel. I'll see how far I get today and post up a pic later.
Thanks again TF. This thread has been wonderful.
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45 minute video at the very bottom of Post #2. Very good and well worth watching; maybe more than once.
Wow, you guys are really getting with it. I'm jealous of you all's progress. I finally got a package yesterday with the tools, dye, and leather shoulder that I need. Now all I need is some time. I'm off to work in a minute so that is not going to happen for the next couple of days but I'm anxious to get started.\
Schmittie, I would think that your 6/7oz. leather is just fine (a little thin if anything) just makes a little more flexible sheath. I ordered 7/9oz. leather and must have got one on the high side of 9oz.; it's looking really thick compared to yours. I'll make it work.... Yesterday I made an edge burnisher on the lathe out of a piece of Ironwood instead of buying one, probably only took an hour or two and cost twice as much as if I'd just ordered one! Pics when I get a chance.
Rich
Wow, you guys are really getting with it. I'm jealous of you all's progress. I finally got a package yesterday with the tools, dye, and leather shoulder that I need. Now all I need is some time. I'm off to work in a minute so that is not going to happen for the next couple of days but I'm anxious to get started.\
Schmittie, I would think that your 6/7oz. leather is just fine (a little thin if anything) just makes a little more flexible sheath. I ordered 7/9oz. leather and must have got one on the high side of 9oz.; it's looking really thick compared to yours. I'll make it work.... Yesterday I made an edge burnisher on the lathe out of a piece of Ironwood instead of buying one, probably only took an hour or two and cost twice as much as if I'd just ordered one! Pics when I get a chance.
Rich
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schmittie-That looks like pretty good leather from the nice finish on the backside. Hard to tell what the thickness is from the photo, but 6/7oz. will work. It will be easier to manipulate than 8/9oz. and still just as good protection for you and the knife.
The stitch chisel will work, it does leave a pretty big slot though. A suggestion on the chisel would be to find one that has the prongs on a slant rather than a straight line. The slant makes for less chance of the stitch pulling trough to the next one in line.
Quick tip on dye work-Really get the leather wet before applying the dye. I mean almost soaked through. Apply the dye after letting surface water drip off. Try two test pieces, one dry and one wet. Use one coat on each and see what you like best. If your dye is the standard Fiebings, add 1tsp. olive oil to the 4oz. bottle. Shake well before applying. Dye will spread more evenly and the olive oil helps condition the leather. I like extra virgin.
Everything you guys are doing really looks great! My congrats to all for making the leap.
The stitch chisel will work, it does leave a pretty big slot though. A suggestion on the chisel would be to find one that has the prongs on a slant rather than a straight line. The slant makes for less chance of the stitch pulling trough to the next one in line.
Quick tip on dye work-Really get the leather wet before applying the dye. I mean almost soaked through. Apply the dye after letting surface water drip off. Try two test pieces, one dry and one wet. Use one coat on each and see what you like best. If your dye is the standard Fiebings, add 1tsp. olive oil to the 4oz. bottle. Shake well before applying. Dye will spread more evenly and the olive oil helps condition the leather. I like extra virgin.
Everything you guys are doing really looks great! My congrats to all for making the leap.
schmittie
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Rick, my thanks for the tips. I only wish I would have logged on sooner! I'm trying the olive oil next time. 
Well, here is what I accomplished tonight. There are things I like. There are things I don't. I, for one, see the wisdom in many of the tools listed by TF. I plan on making a few purchases before attempting again.
1- I agree with Rick's tips above. The prong chisel I have leaves too much of a slot and I'm not thrilled with how it has finished.
2- I was surprised at how dark 'medium brown' dye ended up looking. I'd like to get light brown for future use. But I was going for a slightly 'mottled' look and I'm not unhappy with how it finished though it's hard to tell from the picture.
3- My belt loop is a little cockeyed.
4- I used a part of the leather that looked to have lots of creases/imperfections for more of a rustic look. But they didn't seem to stand out like I hoped.
5- I have never been able to understand the process of buffing the edges with antler. But seeing the video TF posted made all the difference. I think I was able to get a nice shine on the edges and was impressed at how well they actually did buff.
6- I should have gone one more stitch on the bottom towards the bend.
That's about all I have to say for now. It was a fun project. A few more tools and I would like to do another. Soon.
Well, here is what I accomplished tonight. There are things I like. There are things I don't. I, for one, see the wisdom in many of the tools listed by TF. I plan on making a few purchases before attempting again.
1- I agree with Rick's tips above. The prong chisel I have leaves too much of a slot and I'm not thrilled with how it has finished.
2- I was surprised at how dark 'medium brown' dye ended up looking. I'd like to get light brown for future use. But I was going for a slightly 'mottled' look and I'm not unhappy with how it finished though it's hard to tell from the picture.
3- My belt loop is a little cockeyed.
4- I used a part of the leather that looked to have lots of creases/imperfections for more of a rustic look. But they didn't seem to stand out like I hoped.
5- I have never been able to understand the process of buffing the edges with antler. But seeing the video TF posted made all the difference. I think I was able to get a nice shine on the edges and was impressed at how well they actually did buff.
6- I should have gone one more stitch on the bottom towards the bend.
That's about all I have to say for now. It was a fun project. A few more tools and I would like to do another. Soon.
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1) The prong chisel from Tandy is a little wide for my tastes - I think a diamond awl is about right in width.
2) I have used light brown for years and find that multiple coats allow it to get as dark as I want. Although - the browns are a bit different from shade to shade.
3) I have had trouble with belt loops too in the past. I have to close the sheath - and then hold up the belt loop to make it vertical and parallel with the sides of the sheath and then mark it lightly with a red pen at the bottom of the belt loop.
4) If you have not sealed the sheath yet - grab a worn piece of 400 sand paper, put your knife in the sheath, and hit the area's that have creases and where the knife handle is a little. You will take off a little dye in those areas and it will look more rustic and worn. Take off as much as you would like it to look - wipe it off and then seal it.
I think your first one turned out great. It certainly does the job you want it to - and will last forever. Good work.
TF
2) I have used light brown for years and find that multiple coats allow it to get as dark as I want. Although - the browns are a bit different from shade to shade.
3) I have had trouble with belt loops too in the past. I have to close the sheath - and then hold up the belt loop to make it vertical and parallel with the sides of the sheath and then mark it lightly with a red pen at the bottom of the belt loop.
4) If you have not sealed the sheath yet - grab a worn piece of 400 sand paper, put your knife in the sheath, and hit the area's that have creases and where the knife handle is a little. You will take off a little dye in those areas and it will look more rustic and worn. Take off as much as you would like it to look - wipe it off and then seal it.
I think your first one turned out great. It certainly does the job you want it to - and will last forever. Good work.
TF
Couple things I can add for you guys,
I do not use gum trag, the stuff just gets everywhere I don't want it to get. With a little patience, beeswax and an antler tine will work wonders. You can usually find antler tines at pet stores petsmart/petco for a couple bucks. Dig through and find yourself one with a curve to it and it won't tend to slip off when your burnishing and will round your edges for you at the same time.
The flat prong is meant for lacing, The diamond shaped ones are for stitching. Reason being is it is very easy to rip your stitches through
when it is like this - - - - - , think perforations like paper towels, and not easy when they are offset like so / / / / /
Forgot to add, Regarding the Fiebings Oil Dye, That stuff is mean to be diluted, otherwise all the browns tend to come out dark brown. I use denatured alcohol on a 1-1 ratio, it will make your coloring more even if you dunk dye it in a cheapy non stick baking pan rather than using the little swabbers. Just remember to go over it with a good coat of Neatsfoot after it is dry. I dye everything when it is dry as toast, If I dye things when they are wet it just looks blotchy, some areas absorb more water.
I do not use gum trag, the stuff just gets everywhere I don't want it to get. With a little patience, beeswax and an antler tine will work wonders. You can usually find antler tines at pet stores petsmart/petco for a couple bucks. Dig through and find yourself one with a curve to it and it won't tend to slip off when your burnishing and will round your edges for you at the same time.
The flat prong is meant for lacing, The diamond shaped ones are for stitching. Reason being is it is very easy to rip your stitches through
when it is like this - - - - - , think perforations like paper towels, and not easy when they are offset like so / / / / /
Forgot to add, Regarding the Fiebings Oil Dye, That stuff is mean to be diluted, otherwise all the browns tend to come out dark brown. I use denatured alcohol on a 1-1 ratio, it will make your coloring more even if you dunk dye it in a cheapy non stick baking pan rather than using the little swabbers. Just remember to go over it with a good coat of Neatsfoot after it is dry. I dye everything when it is dry as toast, If I dye things when they are wet it just looks blotchy, some areas absorb more water.
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Sky -
Thanks for jumping in here. You contacted me a while back offering one of your services to this thread. Feel free to post it up - it may help those who cannot find a decent side of leather.
Thanks again for making this thread even awesomer. (Yup - I said it).
TF
Thanks for jumping in here. You contacted me a while back offering one of your services to this thread. Feel free to post it up - it may help those who cannot find a decent side of leather.
Thanks again for making this thread even awesomer. (Yup - I said it).
TF
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I'm finally getting started, and following Tal's useful suggestions. Here is an EDC II laid out on a manilla folder while I play around with proper width.
Then I cut one out of bubblewrap, not too happy with it. It's too floppy, loose to approximate leather, so I went looking in the garage and found some closed-cell packing foam a little over 1/8" thick. It worked great.
And, it's transparent enough to put up to the light and see the inside fit.
So now I need some advice from Tal: I have a couple of knives from custom makers that also made the sheaths, and those sheaths are so well-fitted to the knife that they literally "click" in and out. I've looked over the sheath and it appears that they have intentionally cut a "step" or a notch in the welt to catch the knife tang, or a bulge if there is no tang. In the drawing below I've attempted to capture that effect in the welt I'm proposing for this EDC II sheath. Have you done this -should I try it -or is this just too complicated for my first sheath? (I know it will require some really close tolerances.) Next step is cutting leather.....
Then I cut one out of bubblewrap, not too happy with it. It's too floppy, loose to approximate leather, so I went looking in the garage and found some closed-cell packing foam a little over 1/8" thick. It worked great.
And, it's transparent enough to put up to the light and see the inside fit.
So now I need some advice from Tal: I have a couple of knives from custom makers that also made the sheaths, and those sheaths are so well-fitted to the knife that they literally "click" in and out. I've looked over the sheath and it appears that they have intentionally cut a "step" or a notch in the welt to catch the knife tang, or a bulge if there is no tang. In the drawing below I've attempted to capture that effect in the welt I'm proposing for this EDC II sheath. Have you done this -should I try it -or is this just too complicated for my first sheath? (I know it will require some really close tolerances.) Next step is cutting leather.....
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I'm sure Tal will comment on this, too, but I've never done that inset in the welt. That sure doesn't mean it's not a good idea, but looks like it would have to be just right to work easily. Another good chance to learn something on this thread. Got to say that this thread is one of the really good ones. Not a bit of the cut in stone "right way" versus "wrong way" that shows up in other forums. It's mostly showing methods that work for each individual and learning from those ideas.
When using that butterfly style sheath, it helps to round back the tip of the welt where it ends at the fold. If it's rounded, the blade tip will want to ride smoothly down into the body without catching on a squared welt end.
When using that butterfly style sheath, it helps to round back the tip of the welt where it ends at the fold. If it's rounded, the blade tip will want to ride smoothly down into the body without catching on a squared welt end.
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Ricsha,
I have some thoughts on the topic - but I think in your case when you make it - it will tell you how much welt you can get away with.
No matter what - though - I can get your sheath to 'click'.
Check this picture:
This is by Gary Graley (G2) who does some EXCELLENT work. Check this thread:
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/568981-Some-tips-and-thoughts-on-folder-sheaths
Although it is on folding knives - I think it will give you some ideas on that welt.
I have always tapered my welt's into the sheath - and not back out at the opening. BUT - look at Bark Rivers (Made by Sharp Shooter) sheath for the Gunny:
See how it comes back in toward the opening:
I have owned a couple of these sheaths and always found them intriguing. This design works because you are able to cantilever the knife some at the opening and then push it back behind the welt bump.
I think you could get a sort of effect with this if you had the proper amount of welt to lock - and not too much so that it will not insert. It will take some playing with it to get it right.
Honestly - I wouldn't mess with it as you can get this effect by wet forming the knife properly. When wetforming simply be sure to pinch the leather (forming it) behind the finger guard of the knife (where your welt is located right now. Molding there will create retention. You don't need to make it drastic - most of your retention comes from a properly fitting sheath - like you have right now. So a little goes a long way.
When you are done - use a sealant that is more stiff (like Tan Kote) and you will love how it feels.
Does that help?
TF
I have some thoughts on the topic - but I think in your case when you make it - it will tell you how much welt you can get away with.
No matter what - though - I can get your sheath to 'click'.
Check this picture:
This is by Gary Graley (G2) who does some EXCELLENT work. Check this thread:
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/568981-Some-tips-and-thoughts-on-folder-sheaths
Although it is on folding knives - I think it will give you some ideas on that welt.
I have always tapered my welt's into the sheath - and not back out at the opening. BUT - look at Bark Rivers (Made by Sharp Shooter) sheath for the Gunny:
See how it comes back in toward the opening:
I have owned a couple of these sheaths and always found them intriguing. This design works because you are able to cantilever the knife some at the opening and then push it back behind the welt bump.
I think you could get a sort of effect with this if you had the proper amount of welt to lock - and not too much so that it will not insert. It will take some playing with it to get it right.
Honestly - I wouldn't mess with it as you can get this effect by wet forming the knife properly. When wetforming simply be sure to pinch the leather (forming it) behind the finger guard of the knife (where your welt is located right now. Molding there will create retention. You don't need to make it drastic - most of your retention comes from a properly fitting sheath - like you have right now. So a little goes a long way.
When you are done - use a sealant that is more stiff (like Tan Kote) and you will love how it feels.
Does that help?
TF
Ricsha,
TF
The Loveless cam style sheaths are excellent for Bush style knives. I do not care much for the Sharpshooter design, I prefer a lower ride sheath, but it would be great in Rick's butterfly style sheath, They are a little tricky to get right.
Tal, I will take some measurements tomorrow of the Fiddlebacks I currently have and match up with what will fit for each one then post on that.
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You guys, all of you, are just awsome! I've never seen a group of sheath-makers, professionals, so willing (even anxious) to jump in and share their collective knowledge of leather bending with beginners like me. Makes me really appreciate this forum and this group all the more. I have purchased sheaths from Talfuchre, and from Rick Lowe, directly and indirectly, and will continue to do so in the future; but to acquire some of the knowlege (and the skill) to do a few myself --is priceless.
Sky and Tal, I have one of those Sharpshooter sheaths on a Gunny and had not even thought to look at it, thanks for the reminder. This thread just keeps getting better and better.
Here is an image I found on the net of what some call the Loveless cam lock: I didn't know what to call it. Some like it, some find it doesn't last. I still want to give it a try.
Rich
Sky and Tal, I have one of those Sharpshooter sheaths on a Gunny and had not even thought to look at it, thanks for the reminder. This thread just keeps getting better and better.
Here is an image I found on the net of what some call the Loveless cam lock: I didn't know what to call it. Some like it, some find it doesn't last. I still want to give it a try.
Rich
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Rich,
Damn it - I really like that design. I will need to try that. THAT welt Cam is a perfect design. Not putting the stitching near it leaves you more GIVE on the cam. Just take your time - trim as needed.
Speaking of - want me to draw up that design for an Arete or something and scan it for you? I can use what I know so far and go from there. I am intrigued!
Sky,
THanks for the post. Never liked that high ride myself - never could wear them.
TF
Damn it - I really like that design. I will need to try that. THAT welt Cam is a perfect design. Not putting the stitching near it leaves you more GIVE on the cam. Just take your time - trim as needed.
Speaking of - want me to draw up that design for an Arete or something and scan it for you? I can use what I know so far and go from there. I am intrigued!
Sky,
THanks for the post. Never liked that high ride myself - never could wear them.
TF