Member Wali does not insure packages.

[jill jackson]

Very interesting regarding DC. My friend ordered a knife from KSF. It was over $500.00 it was shipped USPS with dc only. He never got it. KSF told him to pound sand he filed a claim with credit card company and lost! Sooo be careful most credit card companies except Delivery Confirmation as proof of delivery. I see both sides of this. As USPS is not really that dependable . As I buyer I have no recourse if I did not get item. I think a previous poster said we should hand deliver each item lol

And why can (as in are able) they do this? Because by law they are able to. That is exactly why nearly everything you buy anymore has tracking numbers, I even had them on a 2.00 paperback I bought the other week. There's dealers here that do the same thing, I have had costly knives from them, with no insurance and just tracking.

 

[Thomas Linton]

And why can (as in are able) they do this? Because by law they are able to. That is exactly why nearly everything you buy anymore has tracking numbers, I even had them on a 2.00 paperback I bought the other week. There's dealers here that do the same thing, I have had costly knives from them, with no insurance and just tracking.

When you dispute a credit card charge, the credit card company is require by federal law to investigate and reasonably determine if you should be given back your money. Some do. Some, like Discover, do not. Discover told me (more than once) that the seller was their "customer" and that Discover simply accepted whatever the seller said, regardless of the evidence. For example, one seller measured the "length" of the knife by measuring the circumference of the blade. I got the federal banking authorities after them, and they rethought the situations.

As for some sellers doing what they can, sure. They can put legally meaningless limitations of liability inside the packaging so you see those supposed terms of sale after you buy, so they do. Muggers can mug, so they do. What they can do is unrelated to the law.

 

[jill jackson]

Tracking provided by the postal service is proof of delivery Thomas, the fact that it's used to conduct billions of dollars in business every year shows it's true. That's why it is used to ship so commonly and if what you are claiming was so (that anyone can just go around it and receive refunds) it would not be in use, by eBay or all the rest that use it, day in and day out.

 

[jill jackson]

I found this and while delivery conformation is not legal proof for legal documents it does state it's considered sufficient, so there you go it's good enough proof for items of lower value like in this case posted by the OP. You might in rare cases be able to recover from your credit card company, but it's very doubtful.

"DC only gives you the date, ZIP Code and the time your article was delivered (or the date and time of attempted deliveries). It isn't a legal "proof of delivery," which requires a signature (like, say, Certified letters) - but it is sufficient for eBay, Paypal and most delivery disputes. In fact, eBay recommends that all mailed packages use Delivery Confirmation, require insurance, and should use signature delivery on higher value items. I add that you should use SCAN, too."

 

[knifehunt]

Another interesting thing about the USPS is that they will not pay an insurance claim without "proof" of the sent items value. You need a receipt of some kind showing what what was sent and how much it was worth.

 

[Ken44]

For those concerned, and there seems to be a couple.

I contacted seller after two weeks of no package. This is the point I messaged him and he got back with me prompt. NOT saying Wali is dishonest. Now, I went to the PO that following week, they told me to get lost. Contacted seller again, he insisted I try all avenues of collecting the parcel once more, and again, and again. Which I did with PMs starting 4/19, 5/07, 5/22, 6/12. Requested we share the loss in the last two messages, no go. Then 7/05 sent one with the link in the OP, no response, then 10/27, no response, then created this thread, no response.

If I wanted to simply screw the seller over, I would file a PP claim immediately. It's been done to me before. I could have also resorted to accusations as some of you have, or even name calling. Not my style.

Am I wrong for referring to the rules and trying to settle my transaction personally before running the the GBU? Some of you guys seem to think so.

I'm not the type to GBU a member right away nor the type that files PP claims without the go ahead. Now PP claims and PO tracking options are gone, and I am seemingly screwed for my purchase price. And a seller cannot be "stand up" till he stands up after an issue like this.

I do still request a full-refund.

I hope you get the refund.
Have you sent Wali a link to this thread ?
Good luck.

 

[Thomas Linton]

Tracking provided by the postal service is proof of delivery Thomas, the fact that it's used to conduct billions of dollars in business every year shows it's true. That's why it is used to ship so commonly and if what you are claiming was so (that anyone can just go around it and receive refunds) it would not be in use, by eBay or all the rest that use it, day in and day out.

1. I did not post that "anyone can just go around it and receive refunds."
2. "Proof" is proof. Testimony that the package was not, in fact, received is also proof. The proof is weighed and a decision is made as to "truth."
3. I am sure it is usually accurate, but the system is built to achieve an economic end, not to be God's Final Word on what happened. I and others have pointed out examples where the system was not accurate.
4. eBay sellers may use tracking. I do not argue with the wisdom of their decision since it provides proof of delivery. Any degree of proof is better than no proof, and Tracking is probably highly accurate.
5. If the system is 99.99% accurate but not in your case, you will be 100% unhappy.

Posted 13 June 2013 - 11:57 AM
We volunteer at various National Wildlife Refuges and State Parks around the country, and utilize Escapees Mail Service. We are often in areas where we have to drive some distance to get our mail, so would like to know when it is expected to arrive. When you have prescriptions, licenses, etc. in the mail we prefer not to have it sit in a roadside mailbox for any length of time.

We recently called for our mail to be sent, and Escapees sent it Priority Mail and provided us with the tracking code. Long story short, the USPS Tracking showed expected delivery by June 7th. We checked on the 7th, no package. then the 8th, no package. Then the 10th, no package.

All along the tracking showed that the package had been processed and departed Denver on the 7th. Then it showed processing in Denver again on the 9th and once again on the 10th. The entire time delivery was "expected by June 7th".

So we checked again on the 11th (nope) and finally received the package on the 12th!! And sure enough, the tracking now shows delivery occurred on the 12th, but still expected on June 7th. I've encountered this before, but they are usually within a day or two of their prediction.

This is a lot of wasted trips and worry about the status of a package. UPS and FedEx seem to be able to track their stuff to the hour, but the USPS system has the widespread reputation for being nearly useless. So much so that some of the companies I order from let you know ahead of time that USPS virtually never fails to deliver your order, but that their tracking is the worst in the business.

I wonder why USPS can't get their act together and provide usable tracking information.

End of rant...

Mark

I had two separate experiences recently that made me wonder whether the tracking has anything to do with reality at all.

On both occasions, I was expecting a package, just a large envelope for both of them, I believe, both being Priority Mail.

On both occasions, I went to the website and saw the word "DELIVERED" ... at which time I went nuts asking the park owners, the neighbors, whoever I could think of that might have been around when the postal delivery person came, making an idiot out of myself because that website said it was delivered! Nothing. Nada. There was no delivery made despite the fact that the website said that the package was "DELIVERED". It didn't say, "Out For Delivery". It said, "DELIVERED".

In the second case, it was supposed to have been delivered on Friday, didn't come. Then it said Saturday. Said "Delivered" when I checked the website on Saturday afternoon (after the post office closed, of course) but it didn't come. I left for the next campground on Sunday because I couldn't wait any longer. It was finally delivered on Monday. I'm glad there was nothing of huge importance or time sensitivity in that package because I think it was nearly a month before I finally was able to pick it up.

If something is delayed, I can live with that. But I really don't appreciate being told something was delivered when it was not.

I've never had that experience with FedEx or UPS. Delays, yes. Misinformation, no.

It says my package arrived at 8:50am this morning (now 12:34pm) and its not at the house the mail box or the neighbors. has anyone else tracking thing said it has arrived but it was still on the truck out for delivery?
. . .
my **** finally showed up. some lady who doesnt live around here dropped it off .

Ad for eBay, here is what eBay says to sellers:

USPS Delivery Confirmation is an extremely useful tool, but both buyers and sellers on eBay should be aware of its limitations.

The terms "Delivery Confirmation" and "Tracking" are often used interchangeably (I confess to doing this myself), but they are NOT the same thing. When UPS or FedEx "Tracks" a package, it KNOWS WHERE IT IS AT ALL TIMES. It knows what room of what building it is in, where it came from, who has physical possession of the package, who touched it last, stuff like that.

Delivery Confirmation will usually acknowledge that the package ARRIVED at the destination zip code. It will also note if delivery was attempted but not successful. However, the details are often fuzzy after that. If "delivered", was the package left at the doorstep? Did the postal worker leave it at the neighbor's house? Delivery Confirmation often will NOT help you in those sorts of situations. It is possible to have a lost package with DC showing "delivered" at the same time.
. . .

Does the USPS offer true "tracking"? Yes, but only on its EXPRESS mail service. In the USA, this means spending $13.95 and up to ship an item. Overseas, the cost is usually around $20. Express mail also includes $100 of insurance for free, with the option of buying additional insurance for $ 1 per $100.

. . .

Most of the time a package will arrive a day or so after the "where's my stuff" email. Sometimes, there actually was a mix-up. Often, the mix-up is on your end or on the recipient's end. Delivery Confirmation can be extremely helpful here. For instance, if you don't have any evidence the package was mailed, then you know to look in your car or the closet or something. OTOH, if there is evidence the package was delivered, sometimes the buyer will find it soon afterward. Often times, a friend or relative took in the package and forgot to mention it. At least, that's the way it will be explained to you later. Good luck!

 

[pwerfel]

Wake me when it is over

 

[jill jackson]

I've changed my mind Thomas, I believe if anyone can get him a refund it's you!

 

[RICKSTER]

25 years ago after having my mailbox knocked down 6 times I opted for a post office box in my small town that I live in, the post office is 1 mile from my house and I have to go by it to get home, so it no big deal. That being said I don't have to worry about people not doing there jobs correctly and leaving packages on the porch or at the neighbors. Once my package makes it to my post office I have no worries, they leave a yellow card in my box saying I have an item to large for the box & I walk 15 feet to the counter, for me its the only way to go………..


When I mail out a package I basically make it bomb proof, generally if the item is over $100.00 I insure it & require signature confirmation. Before I ship the package I photograph it, after I get the postal receipt I photograph it also, after I get home from the post office I send the buyer a shipping up-date with the picture of the package & the receipt, I started doing this on eBay to protect myself & the buyer & now do it on the knife forums. The buyers really like the added personal touch. I print my labels on line but I cut up extra signature confirmations stickers & put 4 of them on the box, that way no can mistake that it takes a signature for this package to be left. Works very well for me………….

 

[jill jackson]

That's a great way to do it Rick and I am the same, if anything I order is costly I call the post office and get them to just pull it and hold it for me. My rural carrier appreciates it, because he doesn't have to drive in and hope I'm about. I do my send outs up much the same way, (OK I don't use the extra stickers but it's a great idea) but I have sent out cheaper value items with just DC and now you get automatic 50 bucks insurance included with USPS. But, I believe the knife that started all this mess was a cheaper Cold Steel, so we are right back to, it wouldn't have mattered in this case, as we would have both trusted the postal service to get it there, without a signature on delivery.

 

[jill jackson]

My last order went to Grand Rapids, MI. instead of Louisville and that would be bad enough, to cause it to be delayed a day, but they seem to be unable to free it from there....

Product & Tracking Information
Postal Product:
Priority Mail 2-Day™
Features:
$50 insurance included
USPS Tracking™
DATE & TIME
STATUS OF ITEM
LOCATION
December 2, 2013 , 8:17 pm
Processed through USPS Sort Facility
GRAND RAPIDS, MI 49512
December 2, 2013
Depart USPS Sort Facility
GRAND RAPIDS, MI 49512
December 1, 2013 , 2:11 pm
Processed through USPS Sort Facility
GRAND RAPIDS, MI 49512
November 29, 2013
Electronic Shipping Info Received
November 29, 2013 , 8:56 pm
Processed at USPS Origin Sort Facility
NASHUA, NH 03063
November 29, 2013 , 7:41 pm
Accepted at USPS Origin Sort Facility
NEWPORT, RI 02840

 

[El Bandit0]

Looks like I'm late to this mess, just wanted to say that I have done business with both Grinder and Wali and both are straight shooters. Very unfortunate this has occurred and I hope it works out Grinder!

 

[RICKSTER]

My last order went to Grand Rapids, MI. instead of Louisville and that would be bad enough, to cause it to be delayed a day, but they seem to be unable to free it from there....

Product & Tracking Information
Postal Product:
Priority Mail 2-Day™
Features:
$50 insurance included
USPS Tracking™
DATE & TIME
STATUS OF ITEM
LOCATION
December 2, 2013 , 8:17 pm
Processed through USPS Sort Facility
GRAND RAPIDS, MI 49512
December 2, 2013
Depart USPS Sort Facility
GRAND RAPIDS, MI 49512
December 1, 2013 , 2:11 pm
Processed through USPS Sort Facility
GRAND RAPIDS, MI 49512
November 29, 2013
Electronic Shipping Info Received
November 29, 2013 , 8:56 pm
Processed at USPS Origin Sort Facility
NASHUA, NH 03063
November 29, 2013 , 7:41 pm
Accepted at USPS Origin Sort Facility
NEWPORT, RI 02840

Jill,
I have had what happened to you happen to me about a half a dozen times, my down fall seems to be Kearny NJ. distribution center, I have had numerous package's hit Kearny & circle around there for a few days, as a matter of fact I have one there right now & I have my fingers crossed.

 

[JTR357]

I just read thru this whole thread & honestly my only concern is that Wali hasn't showed up to explain his side.

I've had a few dealings with Wali & they were all positive.My only gripe would be one time he put a baton in an envelope instead of a box & some of it popped out,but it wasn't damaged or anything.I told him about it & he said he would be more careful with his packaging in the future.He's a friendly guy,he ships fast & he's easy to deal with.I'd buy from him again.

I personally won't insure <$100 packages.Anything above $100 gets insurance.I've been lucky so far & haven't had any lost packages.If one of my uninsured packages happened to get lost in shipping,I know it would be my responsibility to refund the buyer.The buyer's only responsibility is to get me the money.Once he does that his end is done.

It's been said many times before,but I'll say it again. Insurance is for the seller not the buyer. It shouldn't be the buyer's responsibility to pay for insurance to fulfill my end of the deal(getting the package to him/her).I've never understood sellers that state "if you want insurance,it'll be extra".

 

[bonafide]

Back in April, member had a Cold Steel folder for sale. Hell of a deal, he sent quick. Knife never showed, seller replied knife had been marked delivered. It had been marked, but not physically here. After three trips to the PO to speak to members of the staff to confirm for Wali that PO is not responsible for uninsured parcel, he told me I should have asked for insurance on his parcel. No contact since and I sent him a reminder on 07/05, then again 10/25. Same as I will do here. It is NOT the responsibility of the purchaser to insure/track the package or request such services.

I would like a refund for the full amount of purchase Wali. I realize our transaction was some time ago, but the lapse in communication was from your end, ignoring my requests for resolution.

Sorry for your misfortune .. but IMO ..

1. You have let way too much time elapse for any kind of claim ..
2. The delivery was recorded by the shipping company (USPS) as delivered. Deal done.
3. If you did not ASK or PAY extra or OFFERED extra insurance/tracking .. then that's your mistake. Dont assume the seller is covering every last detail for an all inclusive price.

Bottom line .. IMO .. the seller is not responsible for your refund in this scenario - all based on the FACT the package has been marked as delivered by the shipping company (3rd party confirmation).

 

[Thomas Linton]

. . .
It's been said many times before,but I'll say it again. Insurance is for the seller not the buyer. It shouldn't be the buyer's responsibility to pay for insurance to fulfill my end of the deal(getting the package to him/her).I've never understood sellers that state "if you want insurance,it'll be extra".

Absolutely, manifestly true. Buyer cannot get insurance. Nothing to insure in the eyes of USPS. But look at the next post:

3. If you did not ASK or PAY extra or OFFERED extra insurance/tracking .. then that's your mistake. Dont assume the seller is covering every last detail for an all inclusive price.

 

[RICKSTER]

I just read thru this whole thread & honestly my only concern is that Wali hasn't showed up to explain his side.

I've had a few dealings with Wali & they were all positive.My only gripe would be one time he put a baton in an envelope instead of a box & some of it popped out,but it wasn't damaged or anything.I told him about it & he said he would be more careful with his packaging in the future.He's a friendly guy,he ships fast & he's easy to deal with.I'd buy from him again.

I personally won't insure <$100 packages.Anything above $100 gets insurance.I've been lucky so far & haven't had any lost packages.If one of my uninsured packages happened to get lost in shipping,I know it would be my responsibility to refund the buyer.The buyer's only responsibility is to get me the money.Once he does that his end is done.

It's been said many times before,but I'll say it again. Insurance is for the seller not the buyer. It shouldn't be the buyer's responsibility to pay for insurance to fulfill my end of the deal(getting the package to him/her).I've never understood sellers that state "if you want insurance,it'll be extra".

Very well stated & 100 percent on the mark

I bought a few knives from Wali & it was a very positive experience

 

[JTR357]

Absolutely, manifestly true. Buyer cannot get insurance. Nothing to insure in the eyes of USPS. But look at the next post:

Just pulled this out of BF's FAQ.It's trades & trading but I would assume it would be the same for seller's.

Traders/Trading -
Be honest and provide an accurate and detailed description of the item. Forgetting to mention defects, blemishes, or other problems is not acceptable. When in doubt, be pessimistic with your descriptions.
Provide as many photos as possible, in the best lighting possible. It's always nice to see what you are about to trade for.
If you choose not to use insurance to save money, any repercussions will fall on you (Shipper). Insurance is there to protect you, use it.
Package and ship your items in such a way that they are safe to handle, will not arrived damaged, and will reach their final destination intact.
Do NOT post cash value equivalents in your trade threads.
Communication is key, honor your word. If you say you will do something, then do it.

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/announcement.php?f=699&a=98

 

[jill jackson]

If the seller had tracking which it seems he must have, for the package to be scanned delivered, then insurance would not be able to be claimed anyway.