Met One Seriously Underprepared Walker

[jca21]

on the note of GPS, personally i think they give people a false sense of security. this can also be applied to cellphones. people think that a GPS will guide them safely wherever they need to and if anything happens they can use their cellphones to call search and rescue members like yourself (btw, thanks for your services as a SAR member) and be rescued no problem. i own and use a gps but i use it on top of a compass and map.


on day hikes sometimes i go extra light (knife, water, snack and a fak) or sometimes i go heavy. it depends on the season/time of year, the terrain i'm expecting to encounter (i usually study maps of the areas i head into before hand to give me an idea of what i will have to deal with) and other factors.

that being said, i am more knowledgable about the woods than joe-blow who decides to tackle black tusk in nikes and short shorts (which i have seen before). there are many people who go into the woods unprepared, without proper equipment and poor training. the one thing which i personally believe could help remedy situations such as this is education. if people are taught about spending time in the outdoors, even a basic knowledge of the essentials of survival, their trip/experience in the outdoors can be more rewarding as well as comfortable.


education may result in less search and rescue missions and help keep people alive.


thanks again for your service Skam.


btw heres a picture of black tusk for those locals and internet folk who dont know what it is:

(black tusk is that point on top of the mountain)

 

[Joben]

Lightweight hikers that join our SAR team get a big shock when they see the loads we carry and when they learn why we carry them they understand.

But isn't the umm wells lets say mission profile of a SAR member different then basically any hiker?

You're going out for an unspecified amount of time, carrying enough gear for yourself, and enough to help the target when you find them. Of course you're loaded to the gills. But I'm not sure I follow the leap to concluding that it's nessasary for everyone else to do it that way too.

For one thing, In many of the rescue stories i've seen the person either made bad decisions, or had something happen that would screw anyone over, like a broken bone. In either case, an exhaustive gear list wouldn't really help...

Maybe as someone working in the field you know different, but that's my impression from the news stories.

 

[skammer]

on the note of GPS, personally i think they give people a false sense of security. this can also be applied to cellphones. people think that a GPS will guide them safely wherever they need to and if anything happens they can use their cellphones to call search and rescue members like yourself (btw, thanks for your services as a SAR member) and be rescued no problem. i own and use a gps but i use it on top of a compass and map.

"i own and use a gps but i use it on top of a compass and map."

This is the key! GPS is only as good as it being dropped or lost etc...

Map and compass skills are a lost art for most. I teach it to the public along with survival and GPS usage. It amazes me when I ask classes if they understand map and compass and many say they know the basics. When prompted they know nothing.

Education is important and thats why I dont just search but also teach. New people to SAR are no different their heads are full of self confidence but little substance. Any tool can operate a GPS but show me that you can triangulate your position on a map and I have something to work with.

Thanks for the kudo, I wish the only people we in SAR look for were alzheimer patients or kids who dont know any better but the reality is the vast majority are relatively intelligent people with all kinds of skills or little skills and who made bad choices knowingly or not.

Again, it doesnt take a lot of effort to add a little to the pack and do some training or study, the big rule is never go out alone and tell someone where and when you will be back.

Skam

 

[jca21]

i tend to solo hike alot so i guess im a naughty rule breaker


and yea, the map and compass thing is definetly a dying art. i mainly use the map and compass and use the gps to verify my position every now and then. gps requires batteries and i usually take only one set of backups for it but my gps batteries tend to last a week of use so i dont need that many backups.

 

[skammer]

But isn't the umm wells lets say mission profile of a SAR member different then basically any hiker?

You're going out for an unspecified amount of time, carrying enough gear for yourself, and enough to help the target when you find them. Of course you're loaded to the gills. But I'm not sure I follow the leap to concluding that it's nessasary for everyone else to do it that way too..

If you read what I said, A few more lbs is all it takes to be much safer I am not telling people to haul a 50lb rescue pack just some smart basics.

I dont go anywhere on a trail without the following summer or winter (I am in the rockies other environments differ).

Besides what I am wearing:

Hydration pack with 2 ltrs water.
Canteen type cup for boiling
Emergency reflective bivi bag
small FA kit 1 lb
Winter hat
2000 calories of high fat, high protein and carb food.
Multitool
Extra socks
2 durable garbage bags
whistle
Cell phone full charge
signal mirror
3 flares
Waterproof breathable windbreaker lightweight
Small headlamp with extra batts.
Compass & map
Emergency blanket
several lighters
Pocket survival kit.
50 ft chord
Bug juice
Bear spray
Bandana

I carry light stuff so its not the cheapest and all this weighs in at about 10 lbs maybe a little less. With this I do some peak bagging with the dogs and am not worried if I get caught out for a night or 2 under most conditions. In milder winter weather I add a large tarp more socks, head to toe fleece extra, more food and extra gloves etc..

The moral of the story as far as I am concerned, "If you cant handle 8-10lbs of gear and enjoy your hike you have fitness issues that need to be addressed before you can do this stuff."

Skam

 

[Bushman5]

Extra lbs like water, some food, extra clothing, jacket, a light of some kind the list can go on. Hiking so lightweight that your extra jacket is a garbage bag does not cut it.

Extra water is not a map to what hopefully is water. Extra warmth layer is not silk weight poly pro especially at altitude or shoulder seasons.

I day hike with 10 lbs of gear water included. When I see ppl with 15 lb packs for a weeks trip in the mnts I KNOW they are missing gear its just not possible and yes I know whats in their packs. Just because 1000's do it incident free every day means nothing as I get called for that one and more often than not its a body recovery.

My SAR pack has extra heavy fleece for me and the lost subject, food for me and the lost subject. 2 lights headlamp and handheld with 3 extra sets of batts, radios and batts, 10 x 12 shelter tarp, ropes, tubular webbing, extra socks a medical kit that is 4.5 lbs in of itself. minimum 3 litres of water, Casualty blankets. Thermo pad. In winter there is more food sleeping bag extra gloves stove and fuel. The list goes on and on.

So you see, if I can and do haul this stuff to come get somebodies sorry ass (dead or alive) maybe they could have hauled a few lbs more so I wouldnt have to in the first place.

I am not telling people to haul 50lbs of stuff just something like a small headlamp in case you get stuck after dark you can still find your way out. Or maybe some extra water becasue the water hole you counted on is dried up.

Just using ones brain goes a lot longer way than cutting of pack straps and toothbrushes in half. Carry some reasonable gear.

Agreed knowledge is key but GPS has levelled the playing field and has given people who have no business in the outback a sense of security with no skill sets to back it up. That said there is some gear that is not easily replicated in the field so its not as simple as saying knowledge is the answer to all risks out there because its not.

Hope that clears it up a bit, not interested in a flame war as I see it all the time when the phone rings at 3 am and I end up tracking a so called "experienced hiker", racing against the clock to bring them out breathing. When I find them they certainly DO NOT mind taking "MY" extra clothes, eat "MY" extra food and drink "MY" extra water while "I" build a shelter and they crawl into "MY" sleeping bag trying to stave of hypothermia next to the fire "I" started. All provided by "MY" 30 -50 lb pack "I" hauled up the same track they took with virtually "NO" gear.

Skam

Thank you for your service. Keep in mind though that just because you are SAR and do things SAR way, does not mean every other way is wrong or life threatening or guaranteed to cause a call out. Lets leave it at that.

 

[PrimitiveMan]

I like your list, but you could fit all of that in a very VERY small pack. That is only like 8 lbs or so of gear.

So, ultralight IS being prepared.

 

[skammer]

So, ultralight IS being prepared.

Of course for a day hike in ideal conditions, the weight and volume just grow from there in anything else.
Skam

 

[PrimitiveMan]

I think that is the crux of all of this.

It all depends on the situation. You would have to be an idiot to head out in a raging blizzard with 8 pounds of gear.

And you would have to be an idiot to head out for a day hike with 40 lbs of gear.

But you could get in trouble doing either regardless of gear

Carl-

 

[skammer]

Keep in mind though that just because you are SAR and do things SAR way, does not mean every other way is wrong or life threatening or guaranteed to cause a call out.

Its not the only way just sharing my experiences take it for what its worth. Mr Murphy works in wonderfull ways .

In my classes I have a more captive audience and can work with them.

Learning why people get into trouble and what would have made a difference few people get to experience. As they say, you can lead a horse to water...

I will leave it at that .

Skam

 

[Bushman5]

whats the comfort level of the people in your classes? are they comfortable making their own shelters, brush beds, starting fire with primitive means or are they more like recreational hikers?

 

[skammer]

whats the comfort level of the people in your classes? are they comfortable making their own shelters, brush beds, starting fire with primitive means or are they more like recreational hikers?

I get all kinds with variable backgrounds. On a more advanced course we will go more primitive but generally its weekend warriors with some knowledge yo no knowledge. I teach from a SAR perspective and stress preparation. Then we go through the basics like signalling, primitive shelters, firemaking, hypothermia mitigation, water etc...

I only teach primitive firemaking in the advanced course as its a little too much for beginners, I do howerver teach how to light a fire with contempory methods.

Skam

 

[Bushman5]

i just wanted to add:

qoute skammer:
"The moral of the story as far as I am concerned, "If you cant handle 8-10lbs of gear and enjoy your hike you have fitness issues that need to be addressed before you can do this stuff."

I dont agree, i (as an example) am extremely fit and healthy. I CHOOSE not to carry those loads when hiking though, its simply unnecessary. I CAN carry more if I wanted to or needed to but NO i would not enjoy the extra weight - and again, i have no fitness issues, even my multiple shoulder dislocations don't prevent me from getting out there.

Modern gear (despite my primitive style I do have modern gear) is extremely light, and all the basics can be met while still carrying an ultralight setup. One can streamline further from there, by ditching unnecessary items and using what mother nature provides us. It boils down to ones comfort level and skill level. Some of us Adapt Improvise Overcome, by thinking outside of the hiking gear box.

 

[Thalestin]

I usually just do day hikes these das so I don't take too much. Just my knife, food water. I know the paths well and they are fairly busy trails. When I ge a chance to do some new trails ill be more prepared.

I wear running shoes when I hike as I don't like hiking shoes and personally find them very uncomfortable and make me more clumsy then anything. Just my experience though.

 

[skammer]

i just wanted to add:

qoute skammer:
"The moral of the story as far as I am concerned, "If you cant handle 8-10lbs of gear and enjoy your hike you have fitness issues that need to be addressed before you can do this stuff."

I dont agree, i (as an example) am extremely fit and healthy. I CHOOSE not to carry those loads when hiking though, its simply unnecessary. .

Hey man its your choice. One thing I do know is there isnt any primitive fabrication being done with a broken leg or arm or when severely dehydrated or when hypothermia has taken your dexterity.

Maybe you do have skills and thats good for you but the other 90% of dayhikers do not so until they meet your level of expertise "I" say its not ok to go without some gear.

Skam

 

[beef]

I wear running shoes too. Occasionally Teva style sandals when doing lots of creek crossings. But my ankles have good lateral strength. Maybe not suitable for people who are only used to walking on paved surfaces.

 

[PayetteRucker]

As far as footwear goes, I love my old Converse combat boots, they take care of me, period. Bombproof, I can put them through hellish climbs and descents, with full support and they are light and breath well. 65 dollars. I also like my North Face Rucky Chuckies, a wee bit lighter with no ankle support yet a metal insert in the arch for full foot support when you are carrying a heavy load. My other pair that sees regular use and rediculous amounts of trail miles is my pair of soft soled Minnetonka moccasins. Last night I did a hike barefoot. I was outside BSing with the neighbors (barefoot, I usually am unless I am going somewhere that requires shoes for service) and the sky started turning pink. I can get pics up later maybe. It was pretty rediculous though, got up about a mile and a half in the foothills for some quick photos and got back down. It's all about body hardening. If the pads of your feet are tough enough your feet allow for awesome traction on just about any surface-hard rock, loose powder etc. Native Americans ran all over this continent barefoot. In fact hiking barefoot is a great way to harden your feet in general for long distance hiking, to prevent blisters and hotspots when your feet are in your hiking boots.

 

[jca21]

Hey man its your choice. One thing I do know is there isnt any primitive fabrication being done with a broken leg or arm or when severely dehydrated or when hypothermia has taken your dexterity.

Maybe you do have skills and thats good for you but the other 90% of dayhikers do not so until they meet your level of expertise "I" say its not ok to go without some gear.

Skam

i can splint arms and legs up pretty good also made crutches in the woods for fun just to see if i could do it .

in terms of dehydration? i live on the wet coast plenty of water everywhere i hike

hypothermia would be my main concern around here as it is usually pretty darn wet.

it all depends on the situation imo

 

[batosai117]

I've seen people who hike around with just a water bottle (the kind found on bikes), a hat, sunglasses, and they just wander around taking pictures. Makes me wonder, but then again, I've seen people lugging around the 70 pound external packs too. I suppose they slept better that night than I did

My setup is pretty simple:

 

[skammer]

i can splint arms and legs up pretty good also made crutches in the woods for fun just to see if i could do it .

in terms of dehydration? i live on the wet coast plenty of water everywhere i hike

hypothermia would be my main concern around here as it is usually pretty darn wet.

it all depends on the situation imo

Guess you are indestructable and immune to Murphy. You should be teaching others man.:thumbup:

Skam