Met One Seriously Underprepared Walker

[jca21]

Guess you are indestructable and immune to Murphy. You should be teaching others man.:thumbup:

Skam

i met murphy once and punched him in the face

edit: seriously though, i appreciate the notes you've made in this thread. i just couldnt resist poking some fun
there are always going to be situations where preparation will let you live. better to be prepared then not and in some cases that means packing extra gear.

 

[Rat Finkenstein]

There are ultralight hikers who think you are "Rambo" if you bring even a Swiss Army Knife.

That is pure stupidity. A knife is an essential part of any kit.

 

[JCavSD]

I suppose there are some inherent risks with going ultra-light. These risks can be mitigated through skill, knowledge, and fitness. This doesn't eliminate the added risk, it just lessens it. We each decide what we need to have or know in order to respond appropriately to the unexpected. We each decide what degree of risk we're willing to live with. Comparing it to motorcycling again...I've known many experienced and skillful riders that wear those little beanie cap helmets...which is fine...but I wear a full face because when murphy comes to meet me (again) I don't want to see my jaw smeared out across three lanes. To each his/her own, but I'd rather be a little over prepared (gear and otherwise) than accept the added risk.

 

[Cpl Punishment]

When I first came on this board I was highly prejudiced against ultralighters. Probably for (I'm guessing) the same reason Skammer is.

All of the ones I've met in person are the people that read Crackpacker magazine, and log on to OhMyGodMyDrawersWeighTooMuch.com, then go out, buy the flimsiest, sh**tiest Wal-mart crap (because it's ultralight ya see), and talk to me like I'm an as**ole because my basic kit (including one full canteen and enough food for a day) is 13 pounds. Not that that is a problem, but they have NO skills. They're probably the type that spell "skills" with a Z.

Wanna bet what type Skammer has to rescue most often? I think you can understand some of his ire.

On the other hand, I can go from 13 pounds for a dayhike in summer, up to 35 pounds for a week in winter, and I don't find that onerous to carry. Maybe it's because I'm not some dainty thing at 110 pounds with 14" thighs, and 35 pounds is only about 1/8 of my bodyweight.

Sorry if it paints a bad picture, but the "ultralighters" I see in person are the people who seem to be out to call themselves "hikers" or "outdoorsmen" while putting as close to zero effort into any aspect of it. And I think that's where Skammer's previous assertion of weak and lazy comes from (maybe it was a different thread).

ETA: After being here a while, and seeing some of the ultralighters post, I realize some do have the skills to get away with it most of the time. But I still think it's a better idea to carry some provision for when things go wrong, rather than playing the odds that everything goes right.

 

[mdauben]

Extra lbs like water, some food, extra clothing, jacket, a light of some kind the list can go on. Hiking so lightweight that your extra jacket is a garbage bag does not cut it.

I guess we see different kinds of "ultralight" hikers, then. I have a friend who's a multiple AT through hiker with 25-30 years of experience and is seriously into ultralight backpacking, and I'm moving more and more in that dirction myself. However, that does not mean we are leaving half our gear at home in the name of weight savings.

Extra water is not a map to what hopefully is water.

"Extra" water is dependent on the area, the season and the recent weather. Most of my hiking is in the east, where in many areas and seasons a quart of water is all you really need to stay hydrated between streams. When I hiked in the Grand Canyon, on the other hand, I carried two gallons of water and was glad I did. Other places somewhere inbetween. This is an issue of experience and knowledge that beginners might have issues with, and in this case certainly better too much than too little.

Extra warmth layer is not silk weight poly pro especially at altitude or shoulder seasons.

Again, area, season, weather. In the SE US where I live, during summer, that silk weight polypro (along with a wind layer) is more than enough. In harsher climes more is needed. I have seen many ultralight packing lists that included fleece vests or jackets in addition to the polypro.

When I see ppl with 15 lb packs for a weeks trip in the mnts I KNOW they are missing gear its just not possible and yes I know whats in their packs.

Sometimes I am sure, but not always. You can shed a lot of weight without discarding essential gear if you are willing to spend the money on pricey ultralight alternatives. And of course the mountains matter, too. Canadian Rockies are different than the southern Appalachians. IMO ultralight backpacking becomes less and less appropriate the harsher the weather and terrain become.

My SAR pack has...

...twice as much as a normal hiker needs becuase of the nature of your mission. A weekend backpacker does not need a full SAR loadout, does he?

In winter there is more food sleeping bag extra gloves stove and fuel.

Personally, I see true ultralight backpacking primarily as a summer (or in southern areas three-season) activity because you do need more and heavier gear in winter. That does not mean some ultralight concepts can't be incorporated into winter camping, but the weight savings are going to be much less.

just something like a small headlamp in case you get stuck after dark

Again, a matter what people seem to think ultralight is. I do not think I have ever run across an ultralight backpacking reference (book or on-line) that recomended eliminating a light source all together to save weight. Same with any other really necessary item. Cut the weight by chosing carefully, not by just discarding the item.

If you are running into self-proclaimed "ultralight" backpackers who are wandering into the wild with nothing but a pint of water and a garbage bag, that's not ultralight backpacking, that's ultrastupid backpacking.

 

[Bushman5]

Amen!.

thanks to technology, we have LED headlamps that weigh 1/2 oz or less, WITH batteries, that run for hours. We have large titanium cups that double as cooking pots that weigh less than 1.5 ozs, we have micro fleece clothes, hats etc that dry in minutes with body heat, that keep you uber warm and weigh 3 - 5 ozs, sleeping bags that weigh 1lb, we have packs that are made with the latest fabric, that weigh 2ozs, etc etc etc etc etc. An novice or experienced hiker can build a kit that weighs 5lbs and has all the essentials, including freeze dried food.

on a side note, I like packing superlite so i can all my knives with me

" Originally Posted by skammer Hiking so lightweight that your extra jacket is a garbage bag does not cut it."

depends on the garbage bag...I have industrial drum liners that are tougher than some jacket fabric, and cost hundreds of dollars less, ($5 to be precise). Best rain "jacket" i have ever made. There is also TYVEK, which is even lighter and easy to sew/make into a tough jacket or tarp or tent or pack. Its possible to have a 50 gram jacket.

 

[forestnomad]

I think the issue here is one more of preparedness rather than weight. The weight of your pack doesn't really matter, as long as you have the essentials. And, it's been said above, but gear is not as important as skills and knowledge. Taking the right course of action in a certain situation is what is going to keep you out of danger, not the gear on your back.

 

[cj65]

Offering advice unsolicited on the trail would be "mothering." If that person asked "How far to a water source?" I would feel responsible to mention that it was my opinion that the hiker lacked some essentials which may even include daylight hours. If there are no children along the way, the hiker did not ask for an opinion/advice, mind your own business. If there are children, I would be more apt to mention to them that I felt they were underprepared for an outing, (away from the kids of course.) If they got into trouble, you did all you could. We have freedom to wander to into danger if we so desire.

 

[Calebklyne]

one thing i have noticed about the ultralight people i have run into, is that they all seem to have this odd addiction to being the lightest and most hardcore some of which even go as far as removing lids from things such as toothpaste ect. I also havent met very many people that carry a knife with them in the woods and in the areas i have gone camping most are almost scared if they see you with a knife almost like you are going to take out the whole camp as they sleep. And as far as gear on a backcountry trip i preffer to have 20 more lbs on my back and be a bit more comfortable than have to survive my way thru the weekend

 

[skammer]

If they got into trouble, you did all you could. We have freedom to wander to into danger if we so desire.

Seems some have it all figured out then good for them.

I guess it just burns my ass that people dont think they are potentially putting me at risk when s@#$t happens. ITs ok no worries I will still go as I cant stand guilt that you are out there in trouble no matter the reason.

Sleep well with that knowledge.

Natural selection at its finest.

Skam

 

[Joezilla]

people have done a thru-hike on the entire applachian trail barefoot.

 

[skammer]

people have done a thru-hike on the entire applachian trail barefoot.

People have died an hr from home with boots on, point?

Skam

 

[jca21]

People have died an hr from home with boots on, point?

Skam

they need thicker soles on the bottom of their feet

 

[sawgrass7]

hey skammer!


"Besides what I am wearing:

Hydration pack with 2 ltrs water.
Canteen type cup for boiling
Emergency reflective bivi bag
small FA kit 1 lb
Winter hat
2000 calories of high fat, high protein and carb food.
Multitool
Extra socks
2 durable garbage bags
whistle
Cell phone full charge
signal mirror
3 flares
Waterproof breathable windbreaker lightweight
Small headlamp with extra batts.
Compass & map
Emergency blanket
several lighters
Pocket survival kit.
50 ft chord
Bug juice
Bear spray
Bandana"

Am I missing something or do I see NO KNIFE on your list?!?!?!

 

[Superdave1]

Man, lighten up!
You're taking the fun out of it!

 

[skammer]

hey skammer!


"Besides what I am wearing:

Multitool

Am I missing something or do I see NO KNIFE on your list?!?!?!

Good enough for short style hikes, on SAR sortie's I carry bigger

SKam

 

[Rat Finkenstein]

I see a knife on that list.

 

[skammer]

they need thicker soles on the bottom of their feet

Its true!

And we can all go naked in dead of winter if we wear a hat cuz you loose 80% of your body heat through your head, no need to take water cuz solar stills give gallons of water a day. Ear wax and toe jam fixes all things medical and dandruff makes a high protein and fat meal. No lighters needed cuz rubbing 2 sticks together creates fire 100% although belly button lint will take a spark (hint) add a little earwax makes the flame last longer .

Got to get a hair cut, could weigh me down, will save a little on top for tinder tho.

Good thing I am circumcised that extra weight could have torn my knees out.

The ultimate light weight load out woohooo.:thumbup: LMAO

I should drink more often I get creative.

Beers,

Skam

 

[jca21]

ok you took that a little too far there. i was just thinking we could run around in like bear grylls but if thats your thing its cool

 

[Joben]

i was just thinking we could run around in like bear grylls ...

Just don't pee before you go out, you'll need that.