Missing Halo

[steve_ob968]

I need help with this matter.
I saw a Microtech HALO vt/e BKS 150-2 for sale here on BF.
I emailed the and agreed to purchase this knife on 2-22-11.
I paid seller with paypal and seller emailed me a USPS tracking number.
The seller paid for the shipping.
I waited a couple weeks and no knife.
Looked up the tracking number, USPS stated the seller had notified them he had a package to be delivered. No other info was available.
Contacted seller and seller said him saw that, so we both had the same tracking number.
Seller said he would go to Post office and check it out.
He informed me that he would have to go back and talk with Post Master.
He emailed me and said Post Master was no help.
I asked for a refund, seller said he didn't feel I deserved a full refund, I should have insured package.
I was looking thru post here under Good, Bad & Ugly. Show a resent post that was similar.
I emailed seller to look under BF rules regarding seller reponsibility for insurance.
Seller emailed back, said he looked and quoted;
Buyers be 100% sure you can afford your purchase.
Ask every question before purchasing.
Pay promply.
Provide ship to address, make sure seller has that address and verify shipping preferences.
If you choose not to insure package to save money, it is your responsibilty.
He said it looked pretty clear to him.
What are my choices from here?
Am I SOL on my money?

 

[Esav Benyamin]

The seller is obligated to get the item to the buyer, or provide a refund. Only if the buyer specifies he does not want insurance is this provision waived.

The seller does not have to buy insurance from the carrier, but he still has to make good on the deal if the carrier fails to deliver.

Rules for the Exchange forums

SECTION 2 - Rules for Selling / Trading / Offering Services:
Use common sense - Be 100% sure you are ready to go before you do anything. This means:
1. Sellers - Be 100% sure that you want to sell the item and are satisfied with the selling price
Provide an honest and detailed description.
Provide as many photos as possible, in the best lighting possible.
When in doubt, be pessimistic with your descriptions.
Be specific with all details of payment and delivery. Ship promptly, ship with insurance unless the buyer specifies otherwise.
Do not sell defective products, or attempt to hide defects
2. Buyers - Be 100% sure that you can financially afford to purchase the item before offering to do so
Ask every question you can before the deal is agreed upon.
Be prompt with your payment.
Provide an accurate address. Make sure the seller has that address. Verify your shipping preferences.
If you choose not to have your package insured to save money, it is your responsibility.
3. Service providers - Be sure that you can offer the service you specify in the time frame agreed upon, for the price you have offered.
DEALS ARE NOT FINAL UNTIL BOTH PARTIES HAVE AGREED TO THE TERMS.
We strongly recommend that both parties quote the agreed upon terms to each other via email / private messaging / instant messaging so both parties understand their obligations. At any stage before money has changed hands, either party can back out.

 

[Mike157]

If you paid with regular PayPal, you can open a claim with them. Not saying your situation is exactly the same since I don't know the seller, but I had a similar experience. The seller printed a USPS Priority label out on-line through PayPal. The tracking number was automatically sent to me but he never sent the knife. The seller was not communicating either. After about three weeks I filed the claim (there is a time limit with PayPal). At the same time, with the help of some very resourceful Blade Forum members, I put as much pressure on him as possible (phone calls, legal issues, mail fraud issues, etc.) all the while maintaining a calm attitude with him. After another three weeks or so, PayPal came through with my refund (from his account) and at the same time he sent the knife. I ended up giving him my refund back. If you do file a claim with PayPal, be fairly certain that the seller is not being ethical. PayPal can freeze a person's account for quite some time and I've read that some good ethical sellers have been put through hard times because of frivolous claims.

I think that the post office automatically insures for a minimum amount ( I might be wrong.) The post office does not lose packages that often and from your description of the situation, it looks like they never even took delivery of the package. I have a tracking number on a package right now that I will be taking to the post office Monday. Some sellers automatically insure the packages (I always do). If they don't they should state that the insurance is extra if you want it.

The most important thing is to keep things as level headed as possible and continue to communicate with the seller. Check the seller's feedback here on Blade Forums and even check this sub-forum for any negative feedback for the seller. Packages rarely just disappear into the post office for ever.

As is often said here on Blade Forums, the deal is not finished until both party's are satisfied.

 

[braillediver]

USPS stated the seller had notified them he had a package to be delivered.

As stated- I think this means he printed a shipping label and the USPS was waiting on receipt of the package- so it was never checked into their system.

Microtech HALO vt/e BKS 150-2

Is that an automatic knife? You might be in violation of PayPals Terms of Service as is the Seller if it is.

You might be toast anyway so I’d immediately file the PayPal Claim- if you paid via the Gift Option then you are toast.


Good Luck with this but a cursory glance doesn’t look good.

This is a deal of a life time.

From the listing.


You should save the listing to your local PC also so it can’t be cleared or changed.

 

[The Deacon]

If it had that type of label, the chances of it making it all the way to the buyer without getting scanned at least once by USPS are zero. There's an excellent chance the knife was never shipped. Could be a legit mistake and the package is under the seat of the seller's car or behind his sofa. Could also be a scam. In any event, by BF rules, the seller owes you a knife or a refund. Hope it all works out.

 

[EMT_Lee]

If it had that type of label, the chances of it making it all the way to the buyer without getting scanned at least once by USPS are zero. There's an excellent chance the knife was never shipped. Could be a legit mistake and the package is under the seat of the seller's car or behind his sofa. Could also be a scam. In any event, by BF rules, the seller owes you a knife or a refund. Hope it all works out.

Untrue. I just had a package delivered to me Friday from Knives Ship Free. It was sent USPS Priority, and they did one of the pre-made labels. The item was delivered to me with the tracking never updating from the original shipping notification. The only time it updated was when I went to pick it up, and the lady scanned it right in front of me.

http://trkcnfrm1.smi.usps.com/PTSIn...nquiry.do?origTrackNum=9405510200793474732589

Notice there is no arrival scan when they mailed it, there is no updating throughout the shipping process... nothing. It never updated, even though clearly they shipped it.

 

[steve_ob968]

I used regular paypal, no gift, to pay for this knife.
Do I contact a moderator for help with this or contact paypal?

 

[tyr_shadowblade]

Log into PayPal and look at your transaction history. There should be a button to click on next to that transaction to report a problem. That creates a "PayPal dispute" and the seller will be notified, but since he has already stated he has no intention of issuing a refund you may as well escalate it to a "claim" immediately. This will freeze his PayPal account until the claim is decided. If there are no funds left in his account you may not get that refund.

Write that you ordered a knife (do NOT say it was an auto) from the seller which was never received, tracking number shows it never shipped (provide tracking #), and seller refuses to refund your money.

Simple.

 

[type00rev]

If there are no funds left in his account you may not get that refund.

Simple.

It doesn't matter if there is money in the sellers Paypal account......paypal will pay the buyer and debit the sellers account for the amount paid. Then the seller has to square things away with Paypal in order to use his account again.

 

[Mike157]

I would do both. A moderator is probably keeping tabs anyway. I don't know how much we should ask of them but I know they try hard to keep Blade Forums honest and clean. They have experience with these situations and have helped guide the process in the past. If the seller has minimal and or bad history here or else where and is truly trying to swindle you, he needs to be exposed (I would not do this without a moderator's advice). Then, either be given a chance to explain himself and work things out or be considered for banishment. If he has been here for quite a while and has a lot of good feed back, it would be in his best interest to work things out with you. I would try to keep up civil communication with him.

You can file a PayPal dispute (with PayPal) also. If things work out you can cancel the dispute. If things are not working out in the mean time you can upgrade the dispute to a claim (I'm pretty sure that's the process). You might let the seller know that you are considering filing a PayPal dispute since it seems you have no other recourse.

 

[Esav Benyamin]

Log into PayPal and look at your transaction history. There should be a button to click on next to that transaction to report a problem. That creates a "PayPal dispute" and the seller will be notified, but since he has already stated he has no intention of issuing a refund you may as well escalate it to a "claim" immediately. This will freeze his PayPal account until the claim is decided. If there are no funds left in his account you may not get that refund.

Write that you ordered a knife (do NOT say it was an auto) from the seller which was never received, tracking number shows it never shipped (provide tracking #), and seller refuses to refund your money.

Simple.

I would do both. A moderator is probably keeping tabs anyway. I don't know how much we should ask of them but I know they try hard to keep Blade Forums honest and clean. They have experience with these situations and have helped guide the process in the past. If the seller has minimal and or bad history here or else where and is truly trying to swindle you, he needs to be exposed (I would not do this without a moderator's advice). Then, either be given a chance to explain himself and work things out or be considered for banishment. If he has been here for quite a while and has a lot of good feed back, it would be in his best interest to work things out with you. I would try to keep up civil communication with him.

You can file a PayPal dispute (with PayPal) also. If things work out you can cancel the dispute. If things are not working out in the mean time you can upgrade the dispute to a claim (I'm pretty sure that's the process). You might let the seller know that you are considering filing a PayPal dispute since it seems you have no other recourse.

This is the best advice to follow. Moderators can give advice or coordinate communications, but we cannot provide legal services to actually force a resolution. At the most, we can ban fraudulent sellers, but this will not return your money, so it is a last step.

 

[Pete1977]

file your claim before it is too late to do so. you bought the knife a month ago. i don't know how long paypal gives you to file a claim but i don't think it is any more than 45 days. it's not too hard to find out who you purchased the knife from.

If you specifically asked the seller for no insurance you'd be SOL, but if no mention was made of insuring the knife, the seller should have done so to protect himself because as it stands, he owes you money or a HALO...

in fact, I found out who it was that you bought the knife from and advised him of this thread. it is only fair that he should be able to come here and explain his side of the story.

Insurance doesn't protect the buyer, it protects the seller. The seller is obligated to get the knife to the buyer or refund the buyer's money. the seller already has the money before he/she ships but it's not his/her money until the knife is in the buyer's hand. Sellers, especially the new members who might want to start selling knives here, insure everything unless specifically asked by the buyer not to! if the knife goes missing it is your loss!!!

 

[Osu8233]

Hi Thank you for letting me know about this thread. As i told the buyer I am will to work this out with him but I am not as he said just going to give him his 300.00 back. I have been using this site for about about a month now and have nothing but positive feedback I have also been using Ebay for years and have almost perfect feedback. I have never once had a buyer claim I did not send out a package as a should and in the thread below I see a lot of people saying this. My user name in Ebay is osu8233 please feel free to check out my feedback. I used paypal as I always do to ship the item I then stood in line and handed the postal worker my package and about 5 others. In the rules for this site the insurance rule for Buyers and the one for sellers contradict each other and the rules says when that is the case we go with the more stagnant rule. Set that aside for a moment I can put my self in the sellers shoes and i would not want to be out 300.00 and I do want to be out 300.00 or have my paypal locked seeing as i use it to feed and provide fro my family. I am willing to split the loss I will give the buyer a 150.00 credit. I will email him to let him know. Please provide me with any feedback you can thanks and I will be insuring everything from now on.

 

[jill jackson]

Hi Thank you for letting me know about this thread. As i told the buyer I am will to work this out with him but I am not as he said just going to give him his 300.00 back. I have been using this site for about about a month now and have nothing but positive feedback I have also been using Ebay for years and have almost perfect feedback. I have never once had a buyer claim I did not send out a package as a should and in the thread below I see a lot of people saying this. My user name in Ebay is osu8233 please feel free to check out my feedback. I used paypal as I always do to ship the item I then stood in line and handed the postal worker my package and about 5 others. In the rules for this site the insurance rule for Buyers and the one for sellers contradict each other and the rules says when that is the case we go with the more stagnant rule. Set that aside for a moment I can put my self in the sellers shoes and i would not want to be out 300.00 and I do want to be out 300.00 or have my paypal locked seeing as i use it to feed and provide fro my family. I am willing to split the loss I will give the buyer a 150.00 credit. I will email him to let him know. Please provide me with any feedback you can thanks and I will be insuring everything from now on.

The package shows no record of ever being accepted by the postal service. This alone is a huge strike against you. When it was accepted it would have been scanned into the system. Also, you sent the 300 dollar knife with no insurance. You did that, not the buyer. You owe him 300 dollars, not 150.
Also don't drag eBay into it, if you deal with eBay you should know they hold you 100% responsible to deliver the sold item to the buyer. If not you will be forced to refund to the buyer, by eBay. If the tracking numbers show the item delivered, then and only then will eBay side with the seller, even if the item wasn't received.

 

[Pete1977]

the rules aren't contradictory on insuring packages. it says that if a buyer chooses not to insure, i.e. states "don't insure it" or "i don't want to pay for insurance" it is the buyer's loss if the item comes up missing. Otherwise it is up to the seller to ensure the buyer gets their knife or their money back. Unless the seller above stated that they did not want insurance specifically it is up to you to ensure them a knife or a refund. If I were the OP buying a $300 knife it is a reasonable assumption that you insured it before shipping it and I would have filed a paypal dispute a week ago. This isn't ebay, ebay feedback doesn't really hold water here. Sorry your knife was lost in the mail but you owe the OP $300.

ETA:

If any rules seem contradictory, the more stringent rules apply.

that means that the stricter rule applies, i.e. pay for insurance whether asked for or not, which you did not do.

Common sense would dictate that if several dozen people say how things are done around here and those people contradict what you think, you are probably in the wrong

 

[sheathmaker]

osu8233, unless you can PROVE the buyer WAS OFFERED the option of insurance and He SPECIFICALLY DECLINED that offer of insurance, then you have the obligation to deliver the knife by whatever means, or in absence of that REFUND his money 100% ($300).

He is very much within his moral rights to lodge a PayPal claim if you don't refund him completely.

I realize this is a very disappointing event for you, but if you fail to do what is right you may do irreparable damage to your reputation, at least on this site.

Sooner is better than later.

Paul

 

[Triton]

Hi Thank you for letting me know about this thread. As i told the buyer I am will to work this out with him but I am not as he said just going to give him his 300.00 back. I have been using this site for about about a month now and have nothing but positive feedback I have also been using Ebay for years and have almost perfect feedback. I have never once had a buyer claim I did not send out a package as a should and in the thread below I see a lot of people saying this. My user name in Ebay is osu8233 please feel free to check out my feedback. I used paypal as I always do to ship the item I then stood in line and handed the postal worker my package and about 5 others. In the rules for this site the insurance rule for Buyers and the one for sellers contradict each other and the rules says when that is the case we go with the more stagnant rule. Set that aside for a moment I can put my self in the sellers shoes and i would not want to be out 300.00 and I do want to be out 300.00 or have my paypal locked seeing as i use it to feed and provide fro my family. I am willing to split the loss I will give the buyer a 150.00 credit. I will email him to let him know. Please provide me with any feedback you can thanks and I will be insuring everything from now on.

After having seen this movie several times before I can only say that if you want to keep selling here you will make a full refund. Unless you have an email or other proof that the seller specifically requested that there be no insurance you should have insured the package for your own protection. It would appear that you did not do so. You might think that you can get legalistic with the rules. I don't think that's possible because they are pretty clear on this point, but even if you can, if your reputation is shot you won't sell many items, rules or no rules. Your call.

 

[jill jackson]

It was also the seller's responsibility to make certain the postal clerk scanned the package accepted. When I pay I watch and make sure it's scanned. If it's not then it would look like I never sent it, wouldn't it? When the buyer checks the delivery conformation numbers I send them. (just like it looks in this case)

I also buy insurance on anything I ship, to protect me from having to pay a refund out, in case of loss. I don't even bother to ask the buyer about it. It's my knife until it's in their hands.

 

[BrewCity59]

Osu8233, clearly did not fulfill his end of this transaction. The transaction is not complete until both parties are completely satisfied. There is ZERO wiggle room on this. He owes the buyer 100% of his money back - PERIOD.

 

[ptradeco]

In the rules for this site the insurance rule for Buyers and the one for sellers contradict each other and the rules says when that is the case we go with the more stagnant rule.

Sorry Osu8233 but you are wrong here. The rules are not contradictory. If you cannot show proof that the buyer specifically requested no insurance you owe a FULL REFUND, not a partial.