Models, Tang-Types, Steel Thicknesses, & Weights

On Page 1 the KE Bushie is listed at 3.75" and on Page 2 listed as 3.9", does the size vary or is that old vs new?
Also the duke and woodsman comparison is great.
 
On Page 1 the KE Bushie is listed at 3.75" and on Page 2 listed as 3.9", does the size vary or is that old vs new?

Size varies. Remember, these are hand made knives so no two are every going to be exactly the same size and weight. These stats are just a good idea of what kind of range you can expect to find them in.
 
Totally makes sense. I started learning with a file and destroyed my shoulder in the process. I can imagine how difficult it would be to keep them identical by hand.
But I love it, each one is so unique even in a family.
 
Thanks for the update Phil! You are the king at these very detailed posts. Seeing the details on the differences between the Duke and Woodsman is very helpful, especially in the handle.

I'm assuming with the demise of the Woodsman that the Toothpik won't be seen any time soon either, although I think there's just a handful of them in existence as is.
 
The Duplicate Comparo

At the moment, I happen to have duplicate Woodsmen in the same handle config (emerald burlap over natural liners with orange pinstripes). The difference is one has a tapered tang and the other has a skeletonized full thickness ("SFT") tang. Figured this opportunity may not come up too often and that some might find a comparison interesting.

I generally used the same format and specs as The Comprehensivist One, with some modifications. I omitted the batch numbers because I don't feel like looking them up. Instead of blade length, I measured cutting edge. And instead of measuring balance based on the front pin location, I measured based on the bottom of the plunge (i.e., where the edge meets the ricasso).

Let's cut to the chase.

The Tapered

OAL: 10.625"
Cutting Edge: 5.375"
Handle Length: 5.250"
Steel & Thickness: 5/32" O-1 Tool Steel
Tang Type: Tapered
Grind: Convex
Handle Material: Shadetree Emerald burlap over natural canvas liners with orange pinstripes
Weight (oz.): 7.5 ounces
Blade Height @ Ricasso: 1.434"
Handle Width @ Palmswell: 0.775"
Handle Height @ Palmswell: 1.290"
Circumference @ Palmswell: 3.938”
Distance Front of Handle to Palmswell: 2.250”
Balance Point: .625” Behind Bottom of Plunge

The SFT

OAL: 10.563"
Cutting Edge: 5.188"
Handle Length: 5.188"
Steel & Thickness: 5/32" O-1 Tool Steel
Tang Type: SFT
Grind: Convex
Handle Material: Shadetree Emerald burlap over natural canvas liners with orange pinstripes
Weight (oz.): 8.5 ounces
Blade Height @ Ricasso: 1.434"
Handle Width @ Palmswell: 0.855"
Handle Height @ Palmswell: 1.270"
Circumference @ Palmswell: 4.063”
Distance Front of Handle to Palmswell: 2.25”
Balance Point: 1.125” Behind Bottom of Plunge

The Pics

The subjects. The SFT wins the beauty contest here with the nicer spalting. But I'm willing to pass on looks if the substance suits me better. Well... to an extent. I mean, they're all Fiddlebacks, so they're all lookers to some degree or another. ;)

IMG_0667_02_zps7a7ef3e1.jpg


IMG_0670_zpsdf160046.jpg


I don't have one of Phil's doohickey's, but I just marked on scotch tape where these balance on my finger. Think this pic gives a pretty good sense of the difference here.

IMG_0663_zpsf7b72602.jpg


Some random spine shots. In this first one, you can kind of see that the tapered one is a wee bit longer OAL.

IMG_0672_zps9a570c5b.jpg


IMG_0671_zpse324152d.jpg


The Observations

Many of the variations here (e.g., OAL, cutting edge, handle length) are not affected by the tapered v SFT factor, and are just a product of these being handmade knives. Others (e.g., weight, handle width, handle circumference, balance) definitely are affected. What you prefer is what you prefer. The SFT is definitely thicker and heftier, which some may prefer. I like the feel provided by the overall package of the tapered one (e.g., balance, longer OAL and cutting edge).

The End
 
As far as duplicates go, you could do a lot worse. Nice duo! Thanks for the info!
 
Excellent write-up, photos, and analysis Kris. Having two variations of the same model provides a unique opportunity to determine which features are important to you. The last two photos really how different the handles are in size. I initially thought that there was a typo in your balance point measurements before I realized that the plunge line is much further forward on the SFT knife. That results in more of what I call "dead space" that is neither cutting edge or handle which are both useful. In general, I prefer knives with a minimum of dead space. At least your SFT knife has beautiful spalting to fill that space.

My experience echoes your conclusion about preferring the overall feel, lighter weight, and balance of a tapered tang on this model. I love the look of your SFT, but I would choose feel over looks if I was forced to sell one.

Great job! Thanks for taking the time to document this comparison.

Phil
 
I do have a question about the no dupes rule... If one is in a set, like what was sold today, does that count as a dupe?
I like the way you measured from the plunge. Good variant approach. Nice summary and comparison.
 
Great read Kris. I appreciate your efforts! I'm always amazed at the wealth of information provided by our great forum members. Just as I said about Nathan's threads. I reference these threads and reviews numerous times for stats and photos.

I'm admittedly in the minority regarding larger blades and tapered tangs. I just can't come to grips with them. (Pun intended) I will be keeping an eye open for that SFT Woodsman to go on the market. It is seducing me!
 
Brilliant comparison, Kirkwood! I've long wanted someone to do something like this--a limited variable comparison. Fascinating data. One thing I notice in the pics is that the pommel of the SFT knife is wider than on the tapered model. I wonder if that is constant across iterations, or it simply happens to be the case with these?


Michael
 
Thanks fellas, and you're welcome. I've been wanting to do this for a while and am glad I finally had some time for it with the weather cooperating.

Excellent write-up, photos, and analysis Kris. Having two variations of the same model provides a unique opportunity to determine which features are important to you. The last two photos really how different the handles are in size. I initially thought that there was a typo in your balance point measurements before I realized that the plunge line is much further forward on the SFT knife. That results in more of what I call "dead space" that is neither cutting edge or handle which are both useful. In general, I prefer knives with a minimum of dead space. At least your SFT knife has beautiful spalting to fill that space.

Phil, agree with your comment on dead space. I was so smitten by the spalting on the SFT, I didn't notice at first. Even after, it still felt and performed great. The extra space does not make a huge difference, but it does make some difference (at least to me).

I do have a question about the no dupes rule... If one is in a set, like what was sold today, does that count as a dupe?

Interesting question. And sounds like a good way to rationalize around it. ;) I ended up just throwing my dupes rule out the window a while back. I now have multiples in three different patterns. I might guess that most people who are willing to buy a set of five knives may not have a no dupes rule.

I'm admittedly in the minority regarding larger blades and tapered tangs. I just can't come to grips with them. (Pun intended) I will be keeping an eye open for that SFT Woodsman to go on the market. It is seducing me!

And I admit that I was thinking of you when I wrote that some may prefer a thicker, heftier knife!
 
Brilliant comparison, Kirkwood! I've long wanted someone to do something like this--a limited variable comparison. Fascinating data. One thing I notice in the pics is that the pommel of the SFT knife is wider than on the tapered model. I wonder if that is constant across iterations, or it simply happens to be the case with these?


Michael
Thanks Michael! Good catch. I thought about mentioning the variance in the pommels. And guess it could have been another data point. I actually would prefer the wider pommel on this model, all other things being equal. My guess is that it's just another product of these being handmade. Given that they make the knife blanks by tracing the pattern and then grinding off the excess, I could see variances in things like OAL, pommel width, etc. just happening.
 
That's a fantastic comparison!!! I really enjoyed seeing the two side by side from different positions! Thank you!!!!!

and... about the dupes rule... hmmmm...... I might have nightmares tonight about a dupes rule! :)

-Will
 
Thanks for the great comparison Kris! Life must be hard having two shadetree woodsmans to choose from. I have found that I prefer sft in 1/8" knives as the handle gets to thin for me when it is tapered. On the bigger, thicker knives I love the taper. As much as I love some nice spalting, I would definitely keep the tapered one. Or... Put the heavier sft in your dominant hand and the tapered in the other. :eek:
 
Someone should tell Bud about the dupe rule and his runt fix
Lol
I'm not gonna tell him. Playin with Bud's runts is like playin with his emotions.

That's a fantastic comparison!!! I really enjoyed seeing the two side by side from different positions! Thank you!!!!!

and... about the dupes rule... hmmmm...... I might have nightmares tonight about a dupes rule! :)

-Will
Welcome! Yeah that's why I said adios to the no dupes rule. Feels much better not fretting about it. :)

Thanks for the great comparison Kris! Life must be hard having two shadetree woodsmans to choose from. I have found that I prefer sft in 1/8" knives as the handle gets to thin for me when it is tapered. On the bigger, thicker knives I love the taper. As much as I love some nice spalting, I would definitely keep the tapered one. Or... Put the heavier sft in your dominant hand and the tapered in the other. :eek:
Tod, I agree. 1/8" SFT feels great. My only problem is I LOVE the look of a tapered tang on most of the 3" models, especially with G10.
 
Intro:

It has been over five months since I last posted in this thread. In this update, I am going to provide specs and observations on four models that I have acquired since then.

Specifications:

Bushcrafter Jr.:

Notes: The Bushcrafter Jr (or BC Jr.) is one of a group of new Hiking Buddy size models that Andy introduced in February 2015. This model more or less splits the difference in size between the regular Bushcrafter and Hiking Buddy.

FF Lot Info: 2015 0417 07
OAL: 7.480”
Blade Length: 3.475”
Handle Length: 4.005”
Steel & Thickness: .187” (or 3/16”) spalted A-2
Tang Type: Tapered
Grind: Convex
Handle Material: Drunken Burlap from Shadetree over black with white pinstripes.
Weight (oz.): 5.2 ounces
Blade Height @ Ricasso: 1.105”
Handle Width @ Palmswell: .760”
Handle Height @ Palmswell: 1.015”
Circumference @ Palmswell: 3.240”
Distance Front of Handle to Center of Palmswell: 1.890”
Balance Point: Right at Front Pins



Monarch:

Notes: The Monarch was introduced by Andy in October 2014. I believe the design is meant to be for urban defense and utility with applicability to bushcrafting. Since my uses for this knife are primarily for bushcraft type stuff, I modified my handle into a round butt shape.

The following two pictures show the original configuration, which is what you will get if you buy this model. The rest of the photos in this post show my modified version. See this thread if you want more info about my handle modification: http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...ication?highlight=Monarch+Handle+Modification





FF Lot Info: 2015 0102 16
OAL: 7.575”
Blade Length: 3.460”
Handle Length: 4.115”
Steel & Thickness: .156” (or 5/32”) spalted O-1
Tang Type: Tapered
Grind: Convex
Handle Material: Black & Burgundy Burlap over black with white pinstripes.
Weight (oz.): 5.1 ounces
Blade Height @ Ricasso: 1.190”
Handle Width @ Palmswell: .742”
Handle Height @ Palmswell: 1.083”
Circumference @ Palmswell: 3.239”
Distance Front of Handle to Center of Palmswell: 1.725”
Balance Point: Right at Front Pins



K.E. Bushie:

Notes: The K.E. Bushie or KEB for short is a design by outdoor skills instructor Kevin Estela. Its strong suit is definitely bushcraft type wood working.

FF Lot Info: 2015 0403 23
OAL: 8.320”
Blade Length: 3.610”
Handle Length: 4.710”
Steel & Thickness: .156” (or 5/32”) spalted A-2
Tang Type: Tapered
Grind: Convex
Handle Material: Evergreen Burlap from Shadetree over black with lime pinstripes.
Weight (oz.): 5.2 ounces
Blade Height @ Ricasso: 1.060”
Handle Width @ Palmswell: .805”
Handle Height @ Palmswell: 1.085”
Circumference @ Palmswell: 3.430”
Distance Front of Handle to Center of Palmswell: 2.300
Balance Point: .540” behind Front Pins



Terrasaur:

Notes: The Terrasaur was designed outdoor skills instructor Joe Flowers with all-around bushcrafting tasks in mind.

FF Lot Info: 2014 1205 13
OAL: 8.950”
Blade Length: 4.185”
Handle Length: 4.765”
Steel & Thickness: .125” (or 1/8”) spalted O-1
Tang Type: SFT (“Skeletonized Full Tang”)
Grind: Scandi
Handle Material: Sapphire Burlap from Shadetree over black with white pinstripes.
Weight (oz.): 6.1 ounces
Blade Height @ Ricasso: 1.075”
Handle Width @ Palmswell: .820”
Handle Height @ Palmswell: 1.120”
Circumference @ Palmswell: 3.415”
Distance Front of Handle to Center of Palmswell: 2.275”
Balance Point: .630” behind Front Pins



Comparison Photos & Observations:

Starting with the Bushcrafter Jr. and Monarch...

The BC Jr. and Monarch are almost identical in overall length and handle-to-blade length ratios. The tip of the blade is more centered on the Monarch (which I like for drilling and poking things) vs. the Bushcrafter Jr.'s higher point.





The handle contouring is very similar also between the two.



The Monarch is taller in blade and handle height.





The Bushcrafter Jr. has more belly to the blade which should make it better for hunting applications than the Monarch.



Here are the Monarch, Bushcrafter Jr. and Hiking Buddy together.



The BC Jr. handle is taller than the HB, but the same length.





The blade on the BC Jr. is obviously taller and more upswept at the tip.





Moving on to the K.E. Bushie and Terrasaur...

The top of the handle and two-thirds of the blade on the Terrasaur are essentially a straight line before it drops slightly to the tip. The top of the KEB is a gradual flowing curve from end to end.





The KEB has a round butt vs. the Terrasaur's square one.




 
The blade on the KEB is shorter and more of a true spearpoint than the Terrasaur.



Here are the Terrasaur and KEB shown between a Bushcrafter and Arete for further size comparison. The Terrasaur and KEB have longer handles than the other two which may make these models more comfortable choices if you have XL size hands.






Conclusions:


I believe the Bushcrafter Jr. is going to continue to grow in popularity as more of them get into the hands of users. The overall size of this model really strikes me as a great fit for for my average size hands. If you have XL size hands, it might be a little cramped for you with a four finger grip. I was worried that my knife would feel heavy for its size due to the 3/16” A-2 steel. In actuality, the tapered tang and great balance offset the slight extra weight of the thicker steel. With that said, I would recommend a tapered 5/32” or 1/8” SFT as optimum choices for this model. Since I just got this knife a week ago as I write this, I am looking forward to getting out and using it on some day hikes in the near future.

The Monarch has impressed the heck out of me. It has become one of my top three most used Fiddlebacks. The overall length, combined with a perfect handle and blade height for me, gives this knife a stout yet nimble feel that I really like. The centered spear point appeals to me for good control on those occasions when I use the tip to do something. My knife is tapered 5/32”, which along with 1/8” SFT, would be my recommendations as ideal choices for this model. I think is that the BC Jr. is going to have some serious work to do to bump this one from its top dog status in this size category with me.

The K.E. Bushie has remained a very popular model. That is for good reason. It is a very good looking knife. The generous length handle with its rounded butt seems to fit comfortably with all size hands. I can’t remember reading any owner comments saying that the KEB handle is uncomfortable in hand. That really says something about Kevin Estela’s design and Andy’s execution. The 3.610” spear point guardless blade and longer handle on this model makes me think of Puukko-ish like control for precise wood notching. This knife is another recent acquisition for me that has not yet had its chance to get a good workout in the field. I did get the chance to use Nathan’s (Thurin) KEB last year, so I am well aware of what this model excels at.

The Terrasaur is a pleasant surprise to me. I’ll confess that I have long avoided this model because the square butt combined with the straight back handle and blade just didn’t have any sex appeal to me in the looks department. I got this knife in a trade a couple of months ago. I was searching for an old school scandi grind with nice dark spalting and burlap handles. Other than the old school part, this knife met all of my criteria. After receiving it, I realized what a great handling knife it is with a nice ratio of blade to handle length. The handle has plenty of room for XL size hands or changing grips. This knife is first in line as my next user project. I might have to start with cutting up some crow to eat.

Thanks for reading this far. I hope that you found some of this information useful.

Phil

P.S. - I want to thank my good friend Peter (prom52) for volunteering to be my Editor-in-Chief. You made this post better with your suggestions.
 
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