- Joined
- May 5, 2013
- Messages
- 3,618
-
The BladeForums.com 2024 Traditional Knife is available! Price is $250 ea (shipped within CONUS).
Order here: https://www.bladeforums.com/help/2024-traditional/
Most Overrated Folder
- Thread starter Thrustus
- Start date
- Joined
- Feb 6, 2014
- Messages
- 3,051
I find it interesting that the blades tend to bend and deform instead of chipping and breaking.
Complaining about knives from 20 years ago is a little silly. No liners means less weight. FRN is durable and offers good grip. Is the half-span lockback the midlock they use? There are plenty of knives to criticize, but going back 20 years is a little much.
- Joined
- Apr 23, 2009
- Messages
- 1,133
I'd agree with this. When I got mine I couldn't help but think it was a bit generic. Not special like a crk or strider is.
- Joined
- Oct 17, 2015
- Messages
- 11,466
Lol, I agree.
Not really...not when you think of how much Spyderco's cost.Then you start think of the appropriate price point of $20 of the BuckLite Series, and the Schrade Lightweight Lockbacks back then.And most of those USA made knives had full-spanning lockback levers.Even with the Delica being improved...definitely not worth the price point.
This. Exactly.
Now get rid of that overrated large Sebenza. You don't need the ignominy. I'll take it off your hands for half of what you paid for it.
- Joined
- Aug 21, 2013
- Messages
- 15,411
Are we talking retail pricing from a big box store or "real" pricing from online retailers like BHQ. I understand FRN is not everyone's favorite. However, the form, function and steel choices more than make up for it. I can tell you that my Spyderco Dragonfly in ZDP-189 outperforms any knife in its class and price. Ergonomics are top notch, allowing even my meaty size l-xl hands to maneuver it deftly.
- Joined
- Apr 10, 2015
- Messages
- 384
For me this is Emerson hands down. I like Emersons but if they cost about $60-80. For the money they charge, I would expect more consistency. I have literally picked up two BNIB CQC 10s at my brick and mortar and one had 35% lockup and the other had 85%. The G10 is the roughest I have ever owned on a knife and the 7 series cut like a trenching tool at best. Again, I am not saying Emersons suck, just that they do not live up to "hard use" claims to me and they are grossly overpriced for what you get. Ernie seems like a great guy and there is no shortage of people buying his knives, I just am never satisfied with what I get for what I spend
- Joined
- Feb 4, 2016
- Messages
- 476
I'd like to hear some examples of overpriced Spydercos. You say that the Golden knives are overpriced but I find its just the opposite. Para 2 $130 "S30V, full liners, G10, compression lock. Manix 2 $130 "S30V, full liners, G10, and another great lock". Those are just two examples that stick out and that I feel are great knives for the money. As someone who's knife collection consists of $20 Bucks and Schrades then yes, the price can seem a bit high and even unnesassary. However to someone who collects and uses higher end knives Spyderco actually puts out the best bang for the buck in a higher end production brand. A Delica can be bought for $60. If that's overpriced then I'm missing something. $60 is a cheap folder in my world, and you get a good steel and a knife that is known for taking an absolute beating and keeps going.
I'll wait to hear some examples of the "overpriced" "overrated" Spydercos. I'm sure there are quite a few folks here that would love to know which ones are on your list.
Linerlocks are overrated in my view.
Everything depends on the ball detent and friction to keep it closed. A focussed brushing impact on the pocket will overcome a detent, particularly if the blade has an outward projecting thumb stud. If the detent/friction is hard enough to prevent this 100%, then it is too hard to open easily...
Granted, this hard brushing impact, while in the pocket, is a low probability event, but can happen once in ten or twenty years of carry, and it did happen to me and soured me forever on linerlocks. It only has to happen once...
In my case, I found that, contrary to what most people assume, tip down carry is potentially far more catastrophic in the injury it can cause than tip up. This is because tip down against the bum means the tip is poking outward, and, not only is it poking outward, but the tip is held with great rigidly, at an outward angle, by the pocket fabric it has poked through... This creates a 1-2" of blade tip extending naked outside the pocket, held very rigidly outward by the fabric, far worse than any potential tip up opening: Tip up the danger is confined to inside the pocket... If it opens tip up, it only threatens to the extent of how hard you shove your hand into the pocket, an easy thing to remember to avoid.
Another thing I don't like with linerlocks is that often the thin scales and the slim design will flex in a hard grip, which can actually affect the lock-up. The hand grip, if it is unusual or quickly improvised, generally can affect the lock-up, which is not a satisfying concept to me.
The typical rectangular section of a linerlock's handle is very poor for transferring force from the hand into the cut, particularly on the narrow ones.
Finally, linerlocks are the only kind of folder I owned that could be dropped closed, and opened on their own from impact with the ground: This meant that damage from rocks, that would otherwise have been confined to the handle, was now occurring on the edge itself, inevitably damaging it beyond a full repair: Again this was rare, and may be an issue for a specific model, but if you look at flippers it can certainly happen to these.
Gaston
P.S. The knife that injured me was the CRKT Apache, probably the sharpest out of the box knife I have ever owned (I have never seen again an edge bevel that was ground with a tiny radiused hollow(!), the effect being exaggerated by the edge bevel being very tall on a thin edge, and ground on one side only. To be fair to this particular linerlock, the only reason it opened was that it had prominent ambidextrous thumb studs, which were pinched open to move the blade 1.5" at the blade tip by the twisting motion of my pocket's edges.
Everything depends on the ball detent and friction to keep it closed. A focussed brushing impact on the pocket will overcome a detent, particularly if the blade has an outward projecting thumb stud. If the detent/friction is hard enough to prevent this 100%, then it is too hard to open easily...
Granted, this hard brushing impact, while in the pocket, is a low probability event, but can happen once in ten or twenty years of carry, and it did happen to me and soured me forever on linerlocks. It only has to happen once...
In my case, I found that, contrary to what most people assume, tip down carry is potentially far more catastrophic in the injury it can cause than tip up. This is because tip down against the bum means the tip is poking outward, and, not only is it poking outward, but the tip is held with great rigidly, at an outward angle, by the pocket fabric it has poked through... This creates a 1-2" of blade tip extending naked outside the pocket, held very rigidly outward by the fabric, far worse than any potential tip up opening: Tip up the danger is confined to inside the pocket... If it opens tip up, it only threatens to the extent of how hard you shove your hand into the pocket, an easy thing to remember to avoid.
Another thing I don't like with linerlocks is that often the thin scales and the slim design will flex in a hard grip, which can actually affect the lock-up. The hand grip, if it is unusual or quickly improvised, generally can affect the lock-up, which is not a satisfying concept to me.
The typical rectangular section of a linerlock's handle is very poor for transferring force from the hand into the cut, particularly on the narrow ones.
Finally, linerlocks are the only kind of folder I owned that could be dropped closed, and opened on their own from impact with the ground: This meant that damage from rocks, that would otherwise have been confined to the handle, was now occurring on the edge itself, inevitably damaging it beyond a full repair: Again this was rare, and may be an issue for a specific model, but if you look at flippers it can certainly happen to these.
Gaston
P.S. The knife that injured me was the CRKT Apache, probably the sharpest out of the box knife I have ever owned (I have never seen again an edge bevel that was ground with a tiny radiused hollow(!), the effect being exaggerated by the edge bevel being very tall on a thin edge, and ground on one side only. To be fair to this particular linerlock, the only reason it opened was that it had prominent ambidextrous thumb studs, which were pinched open to move the blade 1.5" at the blade tip by the twisting motion of my pocket's edges.
Overrated: Manix 2 XL. Original Manix was solid. The newest generation though, is a great example of going too far. Too thin, too skeletonized liners which resemble head gasket more than anything else. You can squeeze handle with two fingers and it will flex. A lot. Same if you do some push cuts with more force. The whole handle will flex. Yet most of the reviewers are raving how it's build like a tank. It's just not true anymore. Flimsy. Not sure what folks at Spyderco were thinking, especially when they have light weight version (with FRN handles) in the line up.
Now, if you consider fit and finish, it gets even uglier.
Overpriced: Lets look at the cheapest Spydercos. Chinese made Tenacious line up. You can get American company branded, Taiwan made, similar fit and finish, with better steel, for less. Or, if you omit American brand and pick foreign brand, you get similar fit and finish, better steel for only half the price.
In this case you pay double just for the brand.
I can think of a whole bunch of them.
Hinderer-really just overpriced for what you get
Strider-see above
Sabenza-nice knife, but you don't see many knives that cost so much, yet look so plain.
Emerson- fit and finish come nowhere near the cost that they are asking. Get a collab.
Taiwanese Spydercos that cost more than $200.
Hinderer-really just overpriced for what you get
Strider-see above
Sabenza-nice knife, but you don't see many knives that cost so much, yet look so plain.
Emerson- fit and finish come nowhere near the cost that they are asking. Get a collab.
Taiwanese Spydercos that cost more than $200.
I just unchecked my quotes because the Spyderco battle could go on forever and I don't want to contribute to that.
Suffice it to say that of the Seki Spydercos I've handled (versus the Golden Spydercos), even a rank amateur like myself who has more interest in traditional collecting (where everything is smaller and the priorities are different) can tell that there is no comparison. The F&F on the Golden knives are far, far superior to the Seki knives in almost every comparison I've made or seen. I realize the PM2 has been named multiple times in this thread as overrated; I respectfully disagree. At its price point, the PM2 is probably the single best modern folder I've ever held, and it has held up like a brick outhouse for me and many, many others. There might be a reason it routinely comes up in the "best production folder" conversation besides groupthink. I'm not saying I dislike the Seki knives, just that it is incredibly easy to justify the pittance of an extra cost similar Golden knives enjoy.
Besides, the only specific reasons I've seen from anyone who proclaimed the PM2 overrated in this thread were cosmetic ("Spydercos are ugly!"), a trait shared with most of the imports, or fanboyism ("But muh Benchmade/Strider/ZT/<insert favorite make here>!!!"). If you're going to call a knife overrated, at least make the effort to explain why you think so.
Ok, rant over.
Suffice it to say that of the Seki Spydercos I've handled (versus the Golden Spydercos), even a rank amateur like myself who has more interest in traditional collecting (where everything is smaller and the priorities are different) can tell that there is no comparison. The F&F on the Golden knives are far, far superior to the Seki knives in almost every comparison I've made or seen. I realize the PM2 has been named multiple times in this thread as overrated; I respectfully disagree. At its price point, the PM2 is probably the single best modern folder I've ever held, and it has held up like a brick outhouse for me and many, many others. There might be a reason it routinely comes up in the "best production folder" conversation besides groupthink. I'm not saying I dislike the Seki knives, just that it is incredibly easy to justify the pittance of an extra cost similar Golden knives enjoy.
Besides, the only specific reasons I've seen from anyone who proclaimed the PM2 overrated in this thread were cosmetic ("Spydercos are ugly!"), a trait shared with most of the imports, or fanboyism ("But muh Benchmade/Strider/ZT/<insert favorite make here>!!!"). If you're going to call a knife overrated, at least make the effort to explain why you think so.
Ok, rant over.
- Joined
- Sep 5, 2006
- Messages
- 20,593
They changed the liners on the Manix XL? I bought one when they first came out and it's got solid liners, very solid no flex. How much did they do to the newer ones?
- Joined
- May 7, 2005
- Messages
- 20,928
I couldn't agree more.
Overrated compared to Lynn Thompson's marketing sloganeering? Or overrated compared to what their customers pay, expect, and receive?
Seems Cold Steel has some pretty dedicated followers and users, even among folks here who have midtechs or customs 5-20x more expensive.