Most Overrated Folder

[OrdnanceBubbaUSMC]

I would have that the Southard was set up for a very thin geometry.

 

[meanwhile]

Except that the 710 has the same size handle and a half inch more blade (I saw your bold face and raised you italics) to work with.

So what? Your almost-substantive point was that the PM2 was more awkward to carry because of the handle size. If you really think that more blade length is always better then you don't understand how leverage works. Again being able to generate leverage at the tip is something that matters to people who really use knives rather than knife-flippers. This isn't to say the 710 is a bad knife or a worse knife - just that declaring the PM2 is bad because it doesn't maximize blade length for the handle size is somewhat silly. I don't want to be too heavy about it - not getting this doesn't make you a Bad Person, and the PM2 may well be less useful to you than the 710, but there are good reasons for its design.

..Unlike the Southard.

 

[cncpro11]

I bought a Zombie Apocalypse fixed blade from the Wally store, and it doesn't even have a finger guard.

How does anyone expect to thrust a blade into a zombie skull and keep their hand from sliding up the blade?

Way way overrated!

 

[HuntBomb]

Hinderer secondary market prices are laughable IMO.
I don't see how people can label Spyderco knives as overrated.
Spyderco prices are good, utility even better, and just because you think it's ugly doesn't make it overrated.
CRK is often considered overrated by those who have yet learn about quality in the knife industry.

 

[hardheart]

wow, I learned something new today, you get more leverage over a shorter distance. will wonders never cease

btw, the 710 has nearly a full inch of cutting edge over the PM2, not half

 

[EZ Bake]

Worn-out question asked for the 100th time about negative opinions with nothing possibly good to follow.

Answers: 100% Opinion, followed by HaterAid for silly reasons

Response: Fanboys whining while defending their brand

Follow-up: Finger-pointing and use of the term "Butthurt" from both sides


That about cover it?


Let's all just remember how awesome that we have choices and the freedom to buy what we want (as well as a place to discuss, give opinions, and just generally talk about knives). How cool is that?

 

[jtoler_9]

Perception is a powerful thing and that's why I always point out real use.

Amen! Marketing 101 is that "perception = reality"
Real world use is great, but perception sells a ton of knives for large manufacturers. Some people are lucky enough to develop perception based on actual experience. The rest get theirs second hand through lots of different data points. Either way, knife companies reap the benefit by customers who say, I need/I want this because (enter perception here)
As for overrated, can't decide if there is a blade worth putting under that label. I have purchased knives and decided I didn't like them for whatever reason. The good news is that there are folks here that will buy them.

 

[jtoler_9]

I bought a Zombie Apocalypse fixed blade from the Wally store, and it doesn't even have a finger guard.

How does anyone expect to thrust a blade into a zombie skull and keep their hand from sliding up the blade?

Way way overrated!

LOL
Thanks for this post. I love the fact that you describe a scenario of thrusting a knife with no finger guard into a Zombie and then go on to suggest that the unrealistic part of the scenario is the flaw in the design of the blade for the application of killing a "fictional" Zombie.
Well played sir.

 

[mcrow]

Hinderer secondary market prices are laughable IMO.
I don't see how people can label Spyderco knives as overrated.
Spyderco prices are good, utility even better, and just because you think it's ugly doesn't make it overrated.
CRK is often considered overrated by those who have yet learn about quality in the knife industry.

Spyderco is over rated, IMO, in that they make good knives but people act like there are not 20 other companies that make knives at least as good in the same price range.

 

[OrdnanceBubbaUSMC]

wow, I learned something new today, you get more leverage over a shorter distance. will wonders never cease

btw, the 710 has nearly a full inch of cutting edge over the PM2, not half

You do get more at the tip with a shorter blade but to me half inch is negligible. Same principle as gripping further or closer to the blade. The further you are from pressure area the more resistance you feel and less efficient your pressure. Its one extra reason I don't like knives with flippers.

 

[pvicenzi]

All folders are over rated. For a lot less money, you can get a compareable fixed blade.

 

[ishiyumisan]

How is "hard use" defined?

Real use, equal to how much cardboard you been cutting.

Hard use, equal to how many times you snap the spine of your folder.

Abuse, equal to split hair without damaging the edge, you know... chipping, rolling ect.

 

[symphonyincminor]

I will say it again, the sweet spot is the $125 - $225 range.

It really comes down to real use and needs because if the knives aren't really used it doesn't matter what knife it is as they are all the exact same if they are just play toys or pocket ornaments.

This cannot be reiterated enough. Production knives seem to nail down their designs, quality, and materials within that price range. I've dialed back my spending on customs and mid-techs because, to be honest, I haven't come across any (yet) that have any real advantages over high quality production knives that I have in my collection. The materials and level of finish are nicer, but not necessarily "better." Also - usually aesthetics take front seat over ergonomics the higher price you go (price wise).

I don't have a swimming pool out back full of silver coins, so my knives work for a living. My (very hard-earned) money demands that. :thumbup:

 

[Bugout Bill]

All folders are over rated. For a lot less money, you can get a compareable fixed blade.

It takes more skill to make a good locking-folder than a fixed blade. If anything, production fixed blades are overrated.

 

[Murdamook]

Both of these companies are kept alive by fangirls, although this is more true in EKI's case. Cold Steel is largely focused on the non-knife nut market. To the uninitiated, a reasonable quality knife, like the Cold Steel Lawman, is Excalibur.

Emerson is different, though. They are the Glock of knife manufacturers. They made some good designs, but became so convinced of their perfection that they have become stagnant.

If this is what you believe, then you don't pay any real attention to EKI. Ernest Emerson is constantly designing new knives. They just pushed out the first of two Multitools that they worked with Multitasker on. Also, the day the TSA said knives were legally allowed to be carried on flights now, Emerson produced a design for one. The Emerson line up is being updated just as often as Spyderco or Benchmade, it's just a much smaller company. No, they don't use different steels or handle materials, but the only people who look for that exclusively are people who will probably never take advantage of said steel.

I think that many of the people posting in this thread have no clue of the definition of "overrated" as most are spouting out BS about attractiveness. Sal has never claimed the PM2 to be the most attractive knife ever created. It will do its job every time, though: S30V, comp lock, FFG. You may get a bigger blade with a 710, but you are paying for lesser materials and blade geometry that isn't even comparable.

Those referring to CRK-with the exception of a single person, it would seem-are just in awe that the knife isn't inspiring the second coming or causing them to create their opus. It's a knife, if you went into it expecting something more, then you overhyped the blade to yourself. No one has ever claimed it's anything more than a knife.

If you think Glock is stagnant, they may be in terms of productions but they are still the number one selling pistol on the market.

 

[TEFL0N_D0N_81]

My $30 Buck Vantage is just as good as a Chris Reeve Sebenza FOR MY USES. Most of my EDC tasks consist of opening packaging, cutting up food, and maybe whittling a stick. While my primary concerns with my EDC knife are cutting performance and lock reliability, I also care about aesthetics. Cheaper knives are sufficient for most of my applications, but I still like my expensive folders. I have no problems criticizing knives that I don't feel are worth the price (I.E. EKI) or have other issues, but I don't bash knives simply because I cannot afford them.

+1. Got a Buck Vantage Pro (I bought for $39 a few years back) in my pocket. But I think that speaks as much to the Buck Vantage series as being "underrated".

 

[mcrow]

It takes more skill to make a good locking-folder than a fixed blade. If anything, production fixed blades are overrated.

Well, if you are talking peformance/price folders are overrated. Yes, folders are much more interesting from a mechanical design POV but if we're talking about cutting crap well and durability at a good price then fixed blade is king.

 

[Bugout Bill]

If this is what you believe, then you don't pay any real attention to EKI. Ernest Emerson is constantly designing new knives. They just pushed out the first of two Multitools that they worked with Multitasker on. Also, the day the TSA said knives were legally allowed to be carried on flights now, Emerson produced a design for one. The Emerson line up is being updated just as often as Spyderco or Benchmade, it's just a much smaller company. No, they don't use different steels or handle materials, but the only people who look for that exclusively are people who will probably never take advantage of said steel.

I think that many of the people posting in this thread have no clue of the definition of "overrated" as most are spouting out BS about attractiveness. Sal has never claimed the PM2 to be the most attractive knife ever created. It will do its job every time, though: S30V, comp lock, FFG. You may get a bigger blade with a 710, but you are paying for lesser materials and blade geometry that isn't even comparable.

Those referring to CRK-with the exception of a single person, it would seem-are just in awe that the knife isn't inspiring the second coming or causing them to create their opus. It's a knife, if you went into it expecting something more, then you overhyped the blade to yourself. No one has ever claimed it's anything more than a knife.

If you think Glock is stagnant, they may be in terms of productions but they are still the number one selling pistol on the market.

When Emerson decides to heat treat their 154 CM to a higher hardness, or use higher end steels, or give a hoot about F&F, or ditch the stupid chisel grind, I will happily spend my money on them. Sure, EKI made a "new" design. It will have all the hallmarks of an Emerson knife. Is there anything new about a variation on their other products? It is like a baby Glock, it is a variation on an accepted design. There is no real innovation when you do that.

The main reason Glock is the number one selling handgun is because they dominate the law enforcement market. They are able to do that by selling their pistols cheaper than their competitors. Gaston Glock is reportedly afraid of innovation, he has fired people who try to change the design. When he goes, they need to adapt, otherwise someone else will develop a better weapon and fill the void.

+1. Got a Buck Vantage Pro (I bought for $39 a few years back) in my pocket. But I think that speaks as much to the Buck Vantage series as being "underrated".

My Buck Vantage is the redheaded stepchild of my knives. My knife was an absolute insult to American knifemaking, no knife should leave the factory looking like it did. I fixed it up and it works great now, but it was annoying.

 

[evilgreg]

So what? Your almost-substantive point was that the PM2 was more awkward to carry because of the handle size. If you really think that more blade length is always better then you don't understand how leverage works. Again being able to generate leverage at the tip is something that matters to people who really use knives rather than knife-flippers.

Really? I'm amazed that I never noticed that before. You would think it would have come up when I was whittling a ball in a ball the other day, with these knives:

Of course, force at the tip isn't always what you need. Sometimes you need to make deep slicing cuts. Of course, I couldn't know about that because apparently I'm a knife-flipper. Actually, I am a knife-flipper, now that you mention it. I guess I just didn't realize that flipping my fun knives means I clearly also don't use other knives for a useful purpose ever as the two things must clearly be so separate that nobody could possibly, gasp, do both.

This isn't to say the 710 is a bad knife or a worse knife - just that declaring the PM2 is bad because it doesn't maximize blade length for the handle size is somewhat silly.

You seem to be getting a bit agitated here and I'm not sure why. I didn't say that the PM2 was a bad knife, just that I found it underwhelming and overrated. When I used it, it felt oversized for what it did, at least in terms of pocket space.

You may be remembering something else, so here are my original remarks for reference:

I'd have to say the PM2 is easily the most overrated knife on this forum, in my opinion. Underwhelming knife with an over-sized handle that makes it bigger in the pocket than it needs to be (it's a big in the pocket as Benchmade 710, a knife with a half inch more blade). Still have no idea why so many folks love this knife.

Your comment continued:

I don't want to be too heavy about it - not getting this doesn't make you a Bad Person, and the PM2 may well be less useful to you than the 710, but there are good reasons for its design.

..Unlike the Southard.

Ha, thanks for stooping down low enough to impart your majestic knife-use wisdom upon me.

We disagree, but there's no reason we can't do it in a reasonable, even-tempered adult sort of way, right?

wow, I learned something new today, you get more leverage over a shorter distance. will wonders never cease

btw, the 710 has nearly a full inch of cutting edge over the PM2, not half

Ha, I guess I wasn't the only one getting an unexpected education here.

On the blade length thing, you're right about the cutting edge difference being around an inch--I was only referring to the overall blade length. Apparently neither really matters though, as you only ever use the tip of a knife . . .

 

[steff27]

Sal has never claimed the PM2 to be the most attractive knife ever created. It will do its job every time, though: S30V, comp lock, FFG. You may get a bigger blade with a 710, but you are paying for lesser materials and blade geometry that isn't even comparable.

If you look around, you'll find 710s in various blade steels for good prices. Have one in M390 that cost about 170$.

And yeah the blade geometry is different. The 710 is the better slicer (first hand experience), because it's thinner at the edge and thinner at the spine. Also my M390 one chips less despite having the thinner edge.