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Just wondering, Mr. Gatogordo.
No offense intended, but why a handle that translates to fatso cat?
No offense intended, but why a handle that translates to fatso cat?
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My Dispute with "The Bright Edge"
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howiesatwork said:Just wondering, Mr. Gatogordo.
No offense intended, but why a handle that translates to fatso cat?
It could just be "fat cat", which is a slang term for a rich guy.
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brightedge said:
I can personally vouch for this statement, and I intend to, as often as possible.:thumbup:
.
Sorry for responding to an older topic, but it was recently linked to and I see some others have chimed in on it. It was an interesting read, but I think people went way off track and need to re-read the first post which included the early steps in what became an out of control mess.
I don't know either of the people involved. I can also tell everyone I have worked in retail sales for over 10 years in a professional camera shop. We deal with customers buying brand new equipment and used equipment that we take in on trades, buy out right, then clean up, warranty, etc. We also do eBay and have a website and take phone orders. These days I'm only working there on Saturdays for fun, but for most of my time there I was either the assistant manager or manager, so I had to deal with customers all the time.
I'll start by saying I feel the seller's initial response to the customer's complaints was WAY out of line. I would never talk to a customer like that and not expect to hear from the owner of my store, if not be fired.
Here's how I see this. The customer called with questions about the knife BEFORE he made the purchase. He obviously was very concerned with how the knife latched in the open and closed position. It sounds to me like the seller may have mis-understood his questions and didn't fully describe how the knife locked up. He described the knife felt solid when in the open position and the buyer may have felt from his description that he had the knife latched.
This problem is going to be the buyer's word against the seller's word. It's obvious the buyer feels balisongs should lock up in the OPEN and CLOSED position, as do many other balisong collectors. I can tell you even my cheap POS bali-songs ($10 flea market JUNK) lock up with the latch in the OPEN position. I would expect a $750 custom (Once priced at $1,500 let's not forget) to also lock up in the open and closed position.
It's also obvious the seller feels that it's silly for a balisong to require the latch to lock when the knife is OPEN. So when describing how it locks in the OPEN position he may not have even thought about latching it or may not have even considered the customer would care about if the latch works when the knife is OPEN. Then of course the buyer is expecting the latch to work when OPEN and is also probably assuming the seller would try the latch.
The seller explained to us why he didn't want to latch the knife, and that's fine, but I don't think he said to the customer "I didn't latch it in the OPEN position because I don't want to make any marks ont he handle". If he took the time to explain this to the customer the whole situation would have take a different course. Either the customer would have asked for the seller to try the latch, or ask if he can return it if the latch doesn't work, etc.
So this part is all a communication problem and it's hard to blame either side.
So the customer gets the knife and the latch doesn't work when the knife is OPEN which is a very important issue for him and he took the time to call the seller about this very issue. Also I never heard much talk about the different styles of spacers used in the knife, one rounded, the other hour-glasses. Maybe these were pictured on the site? If so the buyer should have seen this in the picture before buying. This may also have been done on purpose by the maker as it's the way he styled the knife?
Anyway, onto the real issue here. I felt the buyer put together a pretty good email to send to the seller to express his concerns, with detailed pictures. Now, the buyer made a bunch of false accusations about the knife being used, etc, but so what? I work in retail, and if anyone has worked in retail and has sold new equipment, used equipment, etc, customers always assume all kinds of things and come up with all kinds of crazy ideas. If I took the tone the seller did in his return email I'd have a lot of unhappy customers. You can't just handle a customer like that. This guy was spending $750 on a knife. Even though it was discounted A LOT, it's still a lot of money and he wasn't satisfied with the condition of the knife. He felt he called and asked specific questions and when he got the knife he found it to be in a condition that wasn't what the seller explained to him.
The seller could have explained why the knife looked used in a more mature and civil manner. When I'm selling something to a customer I would never consider dropping to their level if they happen to get rude with me or say something false. I always have to act professional and handle the situation in a mature way. I have had people come in and scream in my face practically and do I scream back? Of course not. The buyer here wasn't even screaming, he was expressing concerns and was simply trying to make sense of the situation becaue he was obviously upset and confused with the condition of the knife. It's not right for the seller to rip into him because the buyer was upset and confused and babbling non-sense. It's the seller's job to try and calmly talk to the buyer and make sense of the problems and go from there.
The seller should have explained why the knife looked used and apologized for not clearly stating that the knife's latch didn't secure the knife while in the OPEN position. At that point if the buyer was still not happy because the latch didn't work the seller should have taken the knife back.
What if the buyer never called and just ordered the knife and then returned it with no contact simply saying "The latch doesn't secure the knife while the knife is OPEN, this is a defect and I would like a full refund."
I would think the seller should honor that since most buyers of a piece like that would expect the latch to function in the OPEN and CLOSED position. At least the buyer in this situation did contact the seller BEFORE the sale, and AFTER the sale before returning the knife. I feel the buyer didn't do anything wrong and was told one thing, got something else, tried to explain the problem to the seller, got chewed out unfairly, and as a result returned the knife.
The seller maybe a good guy with a good reputation, but I think in this instance the transaction was handled very poorly.
I don't know either of the people involved. I can also tell everyone I have worked in retail sales for over 10 years in a professional camera shop. We deal with customers buying brand new equipment and used equipment that we take in on trades, buy out right, then clean up, warranty, etc. We also do eBay and have a website and take phone orders. These days I'm only working there on Saturdays for fun, but for most of my time there I was either the assistant manager or manager, so I had to deal with customers all the time.
I'll start by saying I feel the seller's initial response to the customer's complaints was WAY out of line. I would never talk to a customer like that and not expect to hear from the owner of my store, if not be fired.
Here's how I see this. The customer called with questions about the knife BEFORE he made the purchase. He obviously was very concerned with how the knife latched in the open and closed position. It sounds to me like the seller may have mis-understood his questions and didn't fully describe how the knife locked up. He described the knife felt solid when in the open position and the buyer may have felt from his description that he had the knife latched.
This problem is going to be the buyer's word against the seller's word. It's obvious the buyer feels balisongs should lock up in the OPEN and CLOSED position, as do many other balisong collectors. I can tell you even my cheap POS bali-songs ($10 flea market JUNK) lock up with the latch in the OPEN position. I would expect a $750 custom (Once priced at $1,500 let's not forget) to also lock up in the open and closed position.
It's also obvious the seller feels that it's silly for a balisong to require the latch to lock when the knife is OPEN. So when describing how it locks in the OPEN position he may not have even thought about latching it or may not have even considered the customer would care about if the latch works when the knife is OPEN. Then of course the buyer is expecting the latch to work when OPEN and is also probably assuming the seller would try the latch.
The seller explained to us why he didn't want to latch the knife, and that's fine, but I don't think he said to the customer "I didn't latch it in the OPEN position because I don't want to make any marks ont he handle". If he took the time to explain this to the customer the whole situation would have take a different course. Either the customer would have asked for the seller to try the latch, or ask if he can return it if the latch doesn't work, etc.
So this part is all a communication problem and it's hard to blame either side.
So the customer gets the knife and the latch doesn't work when the knife is OPEN which is a very important issue for him and he took the time to call the seller about this very issue. Also I never heard much talk about the different styles of spacers used in the knife, one rounded, the other hour-glasses. Maybe these were pictured on the site? If so the buyer should have seen this in the picture before buying. This may also have been done on purpose by the maker as it's the way he styled the knife?
Anyway, onto the real issue here. I felt the buyer put together a pretty good email to send to the seller to express his concerns, with detailed pictures. Now, the buyer made a bunch of false accusations about the knife being used, etc, but so what? I work in retail, and if anyone has worked in retail and has sold new equipment, used equipment, etc, customers always assume all kinds of things and come up with all kinds of crazy ideas. If I took the tone the seller did in his return email I'd have a lot of unhappy customers. You can't just handle a customer like that. This guy was spending $750 on a knife. Even though it was discounted A LOT, it's still a lot of money and he wasn't satisfied with the condition of the knife. He felt he called and asked specific questions and when he got the knife he found it to be in a condition that wasn't what the seller explained to him.
The seller could have explained why the knife looked used in a more mature and civil manner. When I'm selling something to a customer I would never consider dropping to their level if they happen to get rude with me or say something false. I always have to act professional and handle the situation in a mature way. I have had people come in and scream in my face practically and do I scream back? Of course not. The buyer here wasn't even screaming, he was expressing concerns and was simply trying to make sense of the situation becaue he was obviously upset and confused with the condition of the knife. It's not right for the seller to rip into him because the buyer was upset and confused and babbling non-sense. It's the seller's job to try and calmly talk to the buyer and make sense of the problems and go from there.
The seller should have explained why the knife looked used and apologized for not clearly stating that the knife's latch didn't secure the knife while in the OPEN position. At that point if the buyer was still not happy because the latch didn't work the seller should have taken the knife back.
What if the buyer never called and just ordered the knife and then returned it with no contact simply saying "The latch doesn't secure the knife while the knife is OPEN, this is a defect and I would like a full refund."
I would think the seller should honor that since most buyers of a piece like that would expect the latch to function in the OPEN and CLOSED position. At least the buyer in this situation did contact the seller BEFORE the sale, and AFTER the sale before returning the knife. I feel the buyer didn't do anything wrong and was told one thing, got something else, tried to explain the problem to the seller, got chewed out unfairly, and as a result returned the knife.
The seller maybe a good guy with a good reputation, but I think in this instance the transaction was handled very poorly.
I'll tell you Wade, same as I tell everyone else that I do business with,
If you are the customer, and buy something from me, I will do the best I possibly can to make sure that you are satisfied with the transaction.
IF you turn into a butt nugget, I will do everything that I can to ensure that you urinate blood.
The customer can be, and in this case, was, very, very wrong, and I have no tolerance for that.
Best Regards,
STeven Garsson
If you are the customer, and buy something from me, I will do the best I possibly can to make sure that you are satisfied with the transaction.
IF you turn into a butt nugget, I will do everything that I can to ensure that you urinate blood.
The customer can be, and in this case, was, very, very wrong, and I have no tolerance for that.
Best Regards,
STeven Garsson
Kohai999 said:
Like I said in my post, the buyer was upset and confused with the condition of the knife, especially since he called to check that the latch worked (at least thought he asked properly), and when he got it the latch was far from working in the open position. He tried to rationalize why this was and came up with a bunch of non-sense, but that's a very common thing for a customer to do, and as a seller you should expect that and know how to deal with it and calmly correct the customer in a curdious manner. I'm not buying the "if the customer is rude to me, I'll be rude back" as I don't feel that's proper conduct for a seller. At least, not if he doesn't want to be trashed on a public forum. I feel the seller's first response was to harsh and abrasive and left to the seller, who was already upset, becoming angry. Who wouldn't feel angry if they were unhappy with a purchase, did their best to express their concerns to the seller, only to have the seller come back and talk down to them? NOT COOL.
If I talked like that to my customers they were most likely:
1) Call my boss and complain.
2) Never return to the store and tell everyone they know how poorly they were treated and recommend they don't do business with my store.
3) Write a letter to the paper telling their experience.
What I'm trying to get at is it isn't worth it, as a seller, to treat a customer like that. Sometimes you have to swallow your pride and take a hit to prevent your name and your business's name from being dragged through the mud.
I'm not sure why this thread is still alive since everything has been hashed and rehashed to infinity.
The fact remains the seller was getting rid of problem knives at a discount by his own admission, seller did not disclose problems with the knives even when the buyer asked about them. Seller defends his actions when caught.
Even if the buyer was an asshat the seller commited the original sin. That's what suprises me, the defenders seem to be selective about what's important.
The fact remains the seller was getting rid of problem knives at a discount by his own admission, seller did not disclose problems with the knives even when the buyer asked about them. Seller defends his actions when caught.
Even if the buyer was an asshat the seller commited the original sin. That's what suprises me, the defenders seem to be selective about what's important.
Kohai999 said:
I don't think anyone will be lining up to do biz with someone with this motto.:thumbdn: :thumbdn: No tolerance for customers?
With that attitude you don't deserve any customers. I would hope you are joking.oil
I do want to apologize for dragging this thread on. 
Here' s an image of some $10 flea market type butterfly knife I had in a box of junkers from my youth. I have to squeeze the handles together, when it's OPEN, to engage the latch. The latch is then very tight and secure since there is plenty of tension against it:
Now, I'd expect a once $1,500 custom (marked down by the seller to $750, but not marked down by the maker, so the maker felt it was a $1,500 knife), to lock up BETTER than a $10 flea market POS. The knife in my picture was made in Korea. Obviously it was imported years ago before they banned imports on balisongs.
So when the customer calls to check on the lock and feels he was told it was fine and then gets it to find it's not, I think he's entitled to a full refund, no questions asked.
When dealing with a customer they may have 1 main issue, but spout out a bunch of non-sense about all kinds of things they were unhappy with. As a seller I'm looking at the main issue, not all the other petty crap. The main issue here is the customer felt he was told the latch worked and when he got it the latch did not work. The seller needs to focus on the main concern, the latch not working.
In this case the seller doesn't seem to care about the customer's concerns about the latch not working. The seller was basically saying he didn't see why the latch has to work in the open position. That's the seller's personal opinion, and his customer does not share his opinion. I would think most bali-song collectors and users would also not share the opinion of the seller that the latch doesn't need to function in the OPEN position.
So the seller needs to take his opinion and keep it to himself and try and RESPECT his customer's opinions, wants and needs.
I'd like to know, and maybe this was addressed, do other examples of this knife made by Brad have latches that work when the knives are open? If so, then this knife is certainly defective and Brad should fix it.
Here' s an image of some $10 flea market type butterfly knife I had in a box of junkers from my youth. I have to squeeze the handles together, when it's OPEN, to engage the latch. The latch is then very tight and secure since there is plenty of tension against it:
Now, I'd expect a once $1,500 custom (marked down by the seller to $750, but not marked down by the maker, so the maker felt it was a $1,500 knife), to lock up BETTER than a $10 flea market POS. The knife in my picture was made in Korea. Obviously it was imported years ago before they banned imports on balisongs.
So when the customer calls to check on the lock and feels he was told it was fine and then gets it to find it's not, I think he's entitled to a full refund, no questions asked.
When dealing with a customer they may have 1 main issue, but spout out a bunch of non-sense about all kinds of things they were unhappy with. As a seller I'm looking at the main issue, not all the other petty crap. The main issue here is the customer felt he was told the latch worked and when he got it the latch did not work. The seller needs to focus on the main concern, the latch not working.
In this case the seller doesn't seem to care about the customer's concerns about the latch not working. The seller was basically saying he didn't see why the latch has to work in the open position. That's the seller's personal opinion, and his customer does not share his opinion. I would think most bali-song collectors and users would also not share the opinion of the seller that the latch doesn't need to function in the OPEN position.
So the seller needs to take his opinion and keep it to himself and try and RESPECT his customer's opinions, wants and needs.
I'd like to know, and maybe this was addressed, do other examples of this knife made by Brad have latches that work when the knives are open? If so, then this knife is certainly defective and Brad should fix it.
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- 6,192
DaveH said:
My fault!
I linked to this thread from another thread recently and decided to add my $0.02, even though it was a dead thread, because I know Robert Bartoli to be someone willing to go WAY out of his way for a customer and did so for me recently. Oops. Sorry.