New 2015 ZT lineup

[PURPLEDC]

. . . or naive enough to believe that placing a preorder is a guarantee that you'll get what you ordered, particularly in what most folks would consider to be a "reasonable" amount of time. Can I get a "HELL YEAH" from the 0562CF crowd?

There is no such thing as a "reasonable amount of time" when no time frame has been announced period. We arent talking a guns and roses album that missed every release date for a decade. We are talking about a lack of deadline being announced yet a customer fabricates one in his own mind and rather than accept that fact he chooses to search for any and every excuse in which not to lay blame on his own impatience. As for the spec changes, and some knives not being able to be produced?.................. I got nothing. Except to say that no matter how any of us feel about it, I cant imagine anyone feels worse about it than Kai themselves.

The funny thing is, ZT keeps stabbing themselves in the foot by announcing new knives and delaying delivery until the next round of new knives is announced. By that time, people have given up on their preorders of last year's models and walked away with a bad taste in their mouths. And some people wonder why I'm not a big fan of opening up preorders prematurely.

There is the point right there, they announce a product at a private trade show for the industry. But that announcement of a product doesnt come with any time frame for delivery. And just because you KNOW that something is coming doenst automatically entitle you to a WHEN. Any expectations to that fact are ones you place on yourself. And as obviously know the preorders dealers open up is not controlled by KAI. And since absolutely no time frames are promised (in fact Im surprised they even mentioned anything regarding time frames in the shot videos this year) then there is no way to gauge if a product preorder is premature. Maybe the best thing to do is to not do preorders at all. I mean that is what a preorder actually is afterall , a premature order.

 

[syboh]

Well in all honesty, I generally give all of my KAI business to just one guy, and he tends not to open his preorders until a product gets closer to its release date than the day it's announced. Call me silly, but I think there's a lot more integrity in handling preorders the way he handles them than trying to capture business at the earliest possible moment with absolutely no idea of when or even if delivery will take place.

did u juz say guy? which guy might that be I wonder..

 

[bld522]

We are talking about a lack of deadline being announced yet a customer fabricates one in his own mind and rather than accept that fact he chooses to search for any and every excuse in which not to lay blame on his own impatience.

Not even a horse likes to have a carrot dangled in front of its nose for too long.

I cant imagine anyone feels worse about it than Kai themselves.

Then why do they keep repeating the same behavior?

 

[bld522]

did u juz say guy? which guy might that be I wonder..

Don't wonder too hard. I'm sure it's the same "guy" I'm thinking of. :thumbup: :thumbup:

 

[PURPLEDC]

Not even a horse likes to have a carrot dangled in front of its nose for too long.


Then why do they keep repeating the same behavior?

The only one holding the carrot in front of your face is you. There is no correlation between what happens at a trade show not intended for the public and when dealers choose to open up a preorder list for products with no release date. You come across the info that they are coming and its you who takes that carrot puts it on a stick and obsesses over it.


As to your question I dont think there is a "behavior" that they are repeating. Just because we are upset with our mistakes and are apologetic it doesnt guarantee we wont make more mistakes. But I cant imaging they would be happy with their past issues with production. to me if you look at the new products being released it seems they are simplifying their production processes. While the new knives are very good looking they seem much less ambitious than past models. They are more 0801 than they are 0777 which hopefully will make them easier to produce and deliver in a "reasonable" amount of time.

 

[syboh]

many valid points made in this thread. ZT is entitled to run their business however they want it

but personally, I find it frustrating that I still can't get hold of a 2014 production piece in 2015. yes, a production piece

 

[bld522]

The only one holding the carrot in front of your face is you. There is no correlation between what happens at a trade show not intended for the public and which dealers choose to open up a preorder list for products with no release date. You come across the info that they are coming and its you who takes that carrot puts it on a stick and obsesses over it.

What??? . . . wait!!! . . . well . . . oh, never mind.

As to your question I dont think there is a "behavior" that they are repeating. Just because we are upset with our mistakes and are apologetic it doesnt guarantee we wont make more mistakes. But I cant imaging they would be happy with their past issues with production. to me if you look at the new products being released it seems they are simplifying their production processes. While the new knives are very good looking they seem much less ambitious than past models. They are more 0801 than they are 0777 which hopefully will make them easier to produce and deliver in a "reasonable" amount of time.

We shall see . . .

 

[bld522]

I find it frustrating that I still can't get hold of a 2014 production piece in 2015. yes, a production piece

Rest assured you're not alone in feeling that way. Having said that, ZT has made no bones about the fact that they don't consider us to be their customers. Their dealers are their customers. How knife consumers like you and me feel about the way they run their business is not their concern. But money talks, of course. If you don't like the way they run their business, you know what to do.

 

[Scurvy092]

many valid points made in this thread. ZT is entitled to run their business however they want it

but personally, I find it frustrating that I still can't get hold of a 2014 production piece in 2015. yes, a production piece

Yes but some people got them, it's not like they didn't make any. ZT has no control over availability of materials...


Some people like me have been waiting since 2012 for the Spyderco Foundry. I waited so long for it that I'm not even into mid level productions anymore.

 

[NorthernSouthpaw]

Rest assured you're not alone in feeling that way. Having said that, ZT has made no bones about the fact that they don't consider us to be their customers. Their dealers are their customers. How knife consumers like you and me feel about the way they run their business is not their concern. But money talks, of course. If you don't like the way they run their business, you know what to do.

But they will only sell LE knives direct to the end consumer? This seems extremely hypocritical. After reading the above I would think they truly don't care at all about end users. Especially if I didn't know Kai had such amazing CS. So there is a little more to that policy I think.

 

[bld522]

Yes but some people got them, it's not like they didn't make any. ZT has no control over availability of materials...

The materials ZT uses in manufacturing the 0562 and 0562CF aren't all that exotic . . . Titanium, G10, Carbon Fiber, Elmax, M390. Companies like Spyderco and Benchmade use those same materials. And yet I haven't heard that they're experiencing production problems stemming from insufficient supplies of those materials.

Just sayin . . .

 

[Scurvy092]

The materials ZT uses in manufacturing the 0562 and 0562CF aren't all that exotic . . . Titanium, G10, Carbon Fiber, Elmax, M390. Companies like Spyderco and Benchmade use those same materials. And yet I haven't heard that they're experiencing production problems stemming from insufficient supplies of those materials.

Just sayin . . .

Smh...

Just saying...

 

[Scurvy092]

But they will only sell LE knives direct to the end consumer? This seems extremely hypocritical. After reading the above I would think they truly don't care at all about end users. Especially if I didn't know Kai had such amazing CS. So there is a little more to that policy I think.

What he means is during SHOT show the dealers are the customers. That's who they are showing off their prototypes to. They aren't specifically intended to show off to customers.

 

[daveb068]

ZT 0900 Les George collaboration, KVT, 2.7" S35VN, Ti, Ti Framelock

ZT 0630 Ernest Emerson collaboration, Wave/Thumb Disc, 3.6" S35VN, G-10, Ti Framelock

ZT 0808 Todd Rexford collaboration, KVT, 3.25" S35VN, Ti, Ti Framelock

ZT 0452CF Dmitry Sinkevich collaboration, KVT, 4.1" S35VN, CF, Ti Framelock

ZT 0450 Dmitry Sinkevich collaboration, KVT, 3.25" S35VN, Ti, Ti Framelock

Thanks for posting these up. Looks like they have a little something for everyone this year. I for one love the new lineup and will be getting every one of these little gals for the collection. I particularly like the 0900. Definitely hoping the future holds more colabs with Les.

 

[PURPLEDC]

What??? . . . wait!!! . . . well . . . oh, never mind.



We shall see . . .

Hey i used to get up tight about announcing a knife at shot and it not being available for over six months. But then people reminded me of what im reminding you of. You simply cant get upset over missed release dates if there is no release date. And the the preorder bs is out of their hands. Just wait man. In less than a week there will be a thread with someone asking why preorders arent being taken. I get frustrated too. But i have to admit i put that on myself.

 

[PURPLEDC]

Yes but some people got them, it's not like they didn't make any. ZT has no control over availability of materials...


Some people like me have been waiting since 2012 for the Spyderco Foundry. I waited so long for it that I'm not even into mid level productions anymore.

Hey man, do you know which material they sre having a hard time sourcing? I missed it.

 

[Accelerator]

Hey man, do you know which material they sre having a hard time sourcing? I missed it.

Which do you mean, the ZT or the Spyderco?

 

[Stays Sharp]

What he means is during SHOT show the dealers are the customers. That's who they are showing off their prototypes to. They aren't specifically intended to show off to customers.

I clearly remember Thomas, on one of the many discussions he had with members here succintly say that the dealers are their customers NOT the end user. In context during said discussion, he meant it literally... Probably to back someone off who he was arguing with. That's probably what he was referring too.

 

[Stays Sharp]

Which do you mean, the ZT or the Spyderco?

The ZT, it would be readily avilable materials. Sad to hear that they are having trouble with their supplier.

The Foundry was supposed to have a special unique steel Bio Blue - Cobalt Special from Carpenter foundry. It was originally made for Carpenter employees and in 2012 decided to make the model available to customers. They had supply issues so it was shelved for public release BUT forum members kept askin for it so they decided it to release it with SS steel handles and XHP bladesteel for end users. You see the difference? These ZT's were never shelved, but the Foundry was.

Scurvy keeps bringing up the Foundry to deflect the criticism from His beloved ZT. "Oh look, other brands do it too!". Well thats great and all but this is about ZT, and the people here are complaining about ZT and not Spyderco or the Foundry. They have their own subforum for that...and last time I checked there is noone complaining about the Foundry like they do ZT's. ZT fans like Scurvy are the ones having a problem with ZT's being late. Thats not my opinion, it is my observation. No Spyderco fans complain about late products on here really. So stop reaching. Try to find a way to save your brand with dignity smh

 

[daveb068]

The ZT, it would be readily avilable materials. Sad to hear that they are having trouble with their supplier.

The Foundry was supposed to have a special unique steel Bio Blue - Cobalt Special from Carpenter foundry. It was originally made for Carpenter employees and in 2012 decided to make the model available to customers. They had supply issues so it was shelved for public release BUT forum members kept askin for it so they decided it to release it with SS steel handles and XHP bladesteel for end users. You see the difference? These ZT's were never shelved, but the Foundry was.

Scurvy keeps bringing up the Foundry to deflect the criticism from His beloved ZT. "Oh look, other brands do it too!". Well thats great and all but this is about ZT, and the people here are complaining about ZT and not Spyderco or the Foundry. They have their own subforum for that...andlast time Ichecked there is joon complaining about the Foundry like they do ZT's. ZT fans like Scurvy are the ones having a problem with ST being late. Thats not my opinion, it is my observation. No Spyderco fans complain about late products on here really. So stop reaching. Try to find a way to save your brand with dignity smh

Pretty sure the thread was about the 2015 lineup.