New Doug Ritter folder

Agith said:
Your eyes are using pictures to make assumptions about the knife. Which while well and good, isn't going to provide a meaningful level of insight on any more than superficial differences. If the knife has a distinct feel to it, then that pretty much locks you into the argument of it being very similar at a glance. However IF the swelling on the handle is different, the thickness is different, the addition of the finger groove is different, the choice of closed vs open design is different (however the g10 version of the grip has stand offs to as I recall, to play my own devil's advocate), the hardware is differently positioned internally (externally it is still the same however), the lock itself is supposedly different enough to warrant mentioning (despite not being patented anymore, so saying there are improvements to it, is entirely unnecessary.). Then I fail to see how one could call it a clone instead of an inspiration. I do agree that it would be good if Ritter placed that note on there about the Pardue handle playing an immense role in inspiring this new handle- but I have to agree with Hackenslash. People are just speculating.

I appreciate your passion, but I wholeheartedly believe we need to just wait. Everything right now is pure speculation with little meaningful foundation beyond what...9 pictures with what, arguably 5 of those actually showing meaningful info about the knife, while the other 4 are duplicate angles showing nothing new.
Click to expand...
Well said!
 
Agith said:
Your eyes are using pictures to make assumptions about the knife. Which while well and good, isn't going to provide a meaningful level of insight on any more than superficial differences. If the knife has a distinct feel to it, then that pretty much locks you into the argument of it being very similar at a glance. However IF the swelling on the handle is different, the thickness is different, the addition of the finger groove is different, the choice of closed vs open design is different (however the g10 version of the grip has stand offs to as I recall, to play my own devil's advocate), the hardware is differently positioned internally (externally it is still the same however), the lock itself is supposedly different enough to warrant mentioning (despite not being patented anymore, so saying there are improvements to it, is entirely unnecessary.). Then I fail to see how one could call it a clone instead of an inspiration. I do agree that it would be good if Ritter placed that note on there about the Pardue handle playing an immense role in inspiring this new handle- but I have to agree with Hackenslash. People are just speculating.

I appreciate your passion, but I wholeheartedly believe we need to just wait. Everything right now is pure speculation with little meaningful foundation beyond what...9 pictures with what, arguably 5 of those actually showing meaningful info about the knife, while the other 4 are duplicate angles showing nothing new.
Click to expand...
The problem is that Doug has left the question of the original designer unanswered. Adding a hump and reducing some thickness doesn't change who designed that knife. It wasn't Doug and he hasn't given credit.
 
Agith said:
Your eyes are using pictures to make assumptions about the knife. Which while well and good, isn't going to provide a meaningful level of insight on any more than superficial differences. If the knife has a distinct feel to it, then that pretty much locks you into the argument of it being very similar at a glance. However IF the swelling on the handle is different, the thickness is different, the addition of the finger groove is different, the choice of closed vs open design is different (however the g10 version of the grip has stand offs to as I recall, to play my own devil's advocate), the hardware is differently positioned internally (externally it is still the same however), the lock itself is supposedly different enough to warrant mentioning (despite not being patented anymore, so saying there are improvements to it, is entirely unnecessary.). Then I fail to see how one could call it a clone instead of an inspiration. I do agree that it would be good if Ritter placed that note on there about the Pardue handle playing an immense role in inspiring this new handle- but I have to agree with Hackenslash. People are just speculating.

I appreciate your passion, but I wholeheartedly believe we need to just wait. Everything right now is pure speculation with little meaningful foundation beyond what...9 pictures with what, arguably 5 of those actually showing meaningful info about the knife, while the other 4 are duplicate angles showing nothing new.
Click to expand...
If you wanna wait, that's fine. Personally, at this moment, I'm done with Ritter, Hogue and this knife. I'm perfectly willing and hoping to be persuaded otherwise if more facts are presented, but I know a Griptilian when I see one, doesn't matter if it says Ganzo or Hogue on the blade. Hopefully exculpatory evidence will be provided, but until then I know where I stand.
 
Insipid Moniker said:
If you wanna wait, that's fine. Personally, at this moment, I'm done with Ritter, Hogue and this knife. I'm perfectly willing and hoping to be persuaded otherwise if more facts are presented, but I know a Griptilian when I see one, doesn't matter if it says Ganzo or Hogue on the blade. Hopefully exculpatory evidence will be provided, but until then I know where I stand.
Click to expand...
Exactly. The onus is on Doug and hogue to prove this knife isn't just a rip off of a griptilian. Thus far, the fact that this is a design of someone else has not been addressed.
 
craytab said:
The problem is that Doug has left the question of the original designer unanswered. Adding a hump and reducing some thickness doesn't change who designed that knife. It wasn't Doug and he hasn't given credit.
Click to expand...


I pulled this info off of Doug’s website.


Not everyone can afford $200 or more for a top quality folding knife. Even $150 is pushing it for many. However, everyone deserves a knife they can trust their life to in extreme conditions, a knife you can bet your life on™. An affordable knife that fit that description was my goal and I'm very pleased that my Doug Ritter RSK® Mk1 does just that. This is a collaborative evolution of Benchmade's Griptilian® folder produced exclusively to my own specifications. "RSK" stands for Ritter Survival Knife, an indication of its strength and reliability, but it's really a perfectly practical everyday carry knife. Thousands have been sold and are in daily use throughout the world, from urban city to Alaskan wilderness to Middle-Eastern war zones.

This was the first knife with my name on it and I'm one proud papa. I also have to say right up front that I'm no knifemaker, or even a designer in the traditional sense of the word. I just wanted people to be able to purchase an affordable knife that had all the features I prefer. All too often I have found myself recommending a knife with the added proviso that as good as it is, it is missing some feature or other, or more than one, that I prefer, or one that is simply out of reach of most wallets.
I discovered that the only way to get that what I was after was to do it myself, basing it on an established design already in production to keep costs under control.


(Mel Pardue) and I first started talking about such a knife in a conversation at SHOT Show in 1999. Not much came of it; the concept apparently wasn't sexy enough to be of much interest as a commercial product in any U.S. manufacturers' line. Most I spoke with over the years didn't even want to discuss it. Over the intervening years Mel, Benchmade President Les de Asis and I continued to talk about the concept and finally everything came together in 2004.

Les noted, "I am very pleased that we have been able to combine Doug Ritter's considerable expertise and uncompromising standards together with Benchmade's world-class manufacturing capabilities to create this 'purpose driven' design collaboration. The resulting Doug Ritter RSK Mk1 is a no-nonsense tool ensuring the highest degree of survivability while in harm's way--and a smart value as well."

Said Mel, "after many years of discussions on the subject, it is a pleasure to see Doug's quest to create a practical survival folder with all the features he holds dear come to life by combining this classic blade shape he loves and top-notch steel with one of my most successful and well-received designs. The Griptilian® has so many subtle features built in to it that really show up when you actually use the knife; the response by the end user has been very gratifying."
 
jeepin said:
I pulled this info off of Doug’s website.


Not everyone can afford $200 or more for a top quality folding knife. Even $150 is pushing it for many. However, everyone deserves a knife they can trust their life to in extreme conditions, a knife you can bet your life on™. An affordable knife that fit that description was my goal and I'm very pleased that my Doug Ritter RSK® Mk1 does just that. This is a collaborative evolution of Benchmade's Griptilian® folder produced exclusively to my own specifications. "RSK" stands for Ritter Survival Knife, an indication of its strength and reliability, but it's really a perfectly practical everyday carry knife. Thousands have been sold and are in daily use throughout the world, from urban city to Alaskan wilderness to Middle-Eastern war zones.

This was the first knife with my name on it and I'm one proud papa. I also have to say right up front that I'm no knifemaker, or even a designer in the traditional sense of the word. I just wanted people to be able to purchase an affordable knife that had all the features I prefer. All too often I have found myself recommending a knife with the added proviso that as good as it is, it is missing some feature or other, or more than one, that I prefer, or one that is simply out of reach of most wallets.
I discovered that the only way to get that what I was after was to do it myself, basing it on an established design already in production to keep costs under control.


(Mel Pardue) and I first started talking about such a knife in a conversation at SHOT Show in 1999. Not much came of it; the concept apparently wasn't sexy enough to be of much interest as a commercial product in any U.S. manufacturers' line. Most I spoke with over the years didn't even want to discuss it. Over the intervening years Mel, Benchmade President Les de Asis and I continued to talk about the concept and finally everything came together in 2004.

Les noted, "I am very pleased that we have been able to combine Doug Ritter's considerable expertise and uncompromising standards together with Benchmade's world-class manufacturing capabilities to create this 'purpose driven' design collaboration. The resulting Doug Ritter RSK Mk1 is a no-nonsense tool ensuring the highest degree of survivability while in harm's way--and a smart value as well."

Said Mel, "after many years of discussions on the subject, it is a pleasure to see Doug's quest to create a practical survival folder with all the features he holds dear come to life by combining this classic blade shape he loves and top-notch steel with one of my most successful and well-received designs. The Griptilian® has so many subtle features built in to it that really show up when you actually use the knife; the response by the end user has been very gratifying."
Click to expand...
And that is not the knife we are talking about.

Edit to add: I'm not sure about the point of your post. It does show that under benchmade, the original knife was a collaborative effort by all involved. This new one has not been explained with credit given to the original designer.
 
Last edited:
craytab said:
And that is not the knife we are talking about.

Edit to add: I'm not sure about the point of your post. It does show that under benchmade, the original knife was a collaborative effort by all involved. This new one has not been explained with credit given to the original designer.
Click to expand...



It has already been said. This is the same knife just updated and with slight changes.
 
jeepin said:
It has already been said. This is the same knife just updated and with slight changes.
Click to expand...
So on this version, why not give credit to who designed it? What you posted is from the version benchmade produced and pardue designed. That is not the knife we are discussing.
 
craytab said:
So on this version, why not give credit to who designed it? What you posted is from the version benchmade produced and pardue designed. That is not the knife we are discussing.
Click to expand...





Because this is the UPDATED VERSION of that same knife and credit has already been given.
 
So if Todd Begg, for example, shifted production of a knife from Reate to We...would those new knives be copies?
 
I don't think any of us know what agreements existed between Benchmade and Ritter when Benchmade was producing the RSK-Mk1 for him. Obviously, there was something, because they did it...and it wasn't branded as a Benchmade, or marketed as a Griptilian (to the best of my limited knowledge). Perhaps it is a reflection of my (previously acknowledged) limited knowledge, or just a huge assumption on my part; but if this was the offense that some are making it out to be, wouldn't Benchmade have intervened if they had any rights/claims to the RSK-Mk1?
 
Pilsner said:
Of course, Mel Pardue knew how to design a knife, didn't he? Shame his name is not mentioned by Hogue or Ritter, isn't it?

Benchmade were always proud of the association, but of course they paid him to work with them...

"It all started with a drop-point fixed blade hunter made from an old crosscut saw and some Bakelite. Mel Pardue began his career as hobby in 1957 and took his pastime and turned it into a full time career punctuated by modern classic designs like Griptilian and Presidio. With an affinity for folding knives and their complexities Pardue joined the Knife Makers Guild in 1974 and set forth to create new and unique designs that would soon become his signature. Upon joining the guild, Pardue diligently researched through books and magazines using everything he saw as benchmarks of how he could differentiate himself from other designers."

Can somebody please remind where exactly Ritter comes in the pantheon of knife designers? And then I'd appreciate somebody talking me through why this version of Pardue's Griptilian somehow has practically nothing in common with the original. I mean, the lock is so clearly different from McHenry & Williams' AXIS lock, right? And the handle is so very, very different, right? Thanks.
Click to expand...

Are you equally angry at Benchmade for slighting Pardue with their new iteration of the Presidio? No mention of Pardue for the Presidio II -- the designer is listed as Benchmade. I guess enough changes were made to count it as a new design, yet you can see Pardue's influence.

Regarding the Hogue Ritter:

- Did Pardue design the blade? No, the blade is clearly Ritter's design.

- Did Pardue design the lock? No, let's see, Osbourne, Sibert, Nakamura, etc., all use the Axis lock. Does that make their knives an iteration of the Griptilian? Or of the 710?

- Did Pardue design the handle? Influenced it, certainly, but changes were obviously made to the new knife (obvious to me, anyway), Griptilian scales can't be used on it, there's an indentation for the first finger, etc.

Are you suggesting that Ritter collaborated with Pardue on this knife and isn't giving him credit? Are you suggesting that Ritter is obligated to credit Pardue on every design update, even if he wasn't involved (see Benchmade's approach on the Presidio II)?

I don't get the anger here. Nobody on this thread, or the first thread that was closed because of all the anger, has claimed any behind the scenes knowledge of dealings between these people, but assumptions are being made and lines are being drawn. I respect Mel Pardue, Doug Ritter, Hogue Knives, Knife Works, and even Benchmade -- all the parties involved -- so I'm going to presume that this knife was honorably conceived and produced. And I'm going act on my presumption until shown otherwise.
 
I ordered one.

I don't care if it was made in Hell by the Devil. In fact, I'd pay more for that heat treat.

If Benchmade or Mel Pardue have valid intellectual property issues with the knife, I'm sure there are plenty of lawyers available to represent them in the proper forum, the courts.
 
shunsui said:
I ordered one.

I don't care if it was made in Hell by the Devil. In fact, I'd pay more for that heat treat.

If Benchmade or Mel Pardue have valid intellectual property issues with the knife, I'm sure there are plenty of lawyers available to represent them in the proper forum, the courts.
Click to expand...
The cost of ethics is very small for some folks.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top