New Doug Ritter folder

craytab said:
He didn't design the knife. He gave credit to everyone but the guy who designed the knife. If you want to be a pillar in the knife community you can't do that. I guess some people don't care about who does the copying....
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If I make a Loveless inspired knife, do I have to cite Loveless? What about a Kephart? If you sit down and come up with your own CAD drawings where is the line when you take inspiration from others?
You seem to have already made up your mind. I clearly see the Mel Pardue influence, but you have to remember Benchmade and Mel Pardue likely have some kind of contract. Pardue may have not wanted his name involved to avoid violating contractual clauses. That is obviously speculative on my part. The Ritter RSK MK2 fixed blade knife description clearly states that Kabar allowed Ethan Becker to work with Doug Ritter even though it was against their business interest and they had a license agreement in place.
After the dust settled, Ethan eventually licensed the BK&T line to KA-BAR. Getting our collaboration knife produced was an even lower priority for KA-BAR, understandably. Fast forward a couple more years to me starting to lose hope. Then at the 2010 SHOT Show, pressing the issue, again, I elicited an unexpected, but welcome, approval from KA-BAR for Ethan and I to have the knife manufactured ourselves with the only stipulation being that we didn't use the BK&T logo or name (thank you again to John Stitt at KA-BAR) and I immediately ran down Shon Rowen of Rowen Manufacturing, who has agreed to produce the RSK® Mk2 for me. Shon is best known for the TOPS and ESEE knives he produces for those companies. He is a stickler for quality, which works for me just fine.
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http://www.dougritter.com/dr_rsk_mk2.htm
 
Mel probably makes a buttload off BM Griptilians! No need to rock the boat. I think he has a son that makes knives too. Don’t want to spoil that relationship. Let BM go after any cases they may want to. He hasn’t apparently gone after BM on the new Presidio line... let sleeping dogs lie.
 
God in heaven, since when have we had so many Social Justice Warriors on this forum? I mean really? This appears to be a great knife at a great price, a new addition to the market, and based on the popularity of the past offering, this should be a home run. I just can’t comprehend why so many people are so up in arms about the perceived politics. Really? If you care so much sbout who did what, where, why and when, get another hobby. This is a solid knife, a solid offering to add to the collection, whether it be a user or collectible, who cares? It’s going to be a good knife, get over the rest, please.
 
Doug has pulled off one interesting thing: he's generated a lot of attention for, what everyone seems to agree is, one of the least groundbreaking knives of recent vintage. ;)
Accelerator said:
God in heaven, since when have we had so many Social Justice Warriors on this forum? I mean really? This appears to be a great knife at a great price, a new addition to the market, and based on the popularity of the past offering, this should be a home run. I just can’t comprehend why so many people are so up in arms about the perceived politics. ...
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You're confusing social justice, politics and ethics. They are not the same thing. Thank God.
 
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I'd guess that they tweaked the design just enough to where Benchmade won't put up a stink. Though I doubt they are overly happy about it.
However, if Hogue would do what is morally right and give Mel Pardue credit for his Griptillian handle design, BM would then be able to go after them legally for IP theft. So it's a nod and a wink kind of thing. This is why Mr. Ritter is treading VERY lightly around the handle design.

Again it's a guess, but to me it makes sense.

I am very much on the fence over this. I do see the minor differences, but holy crap!! do I see the ridiculously obvious similarities.
Anyone who says that isn't a Mel Pardue design is full of what makes the grass grow green. They are hiding behind semantics so they can feel good about purchasing a knife they like guilt free.
It's your money buy what you want. You don't need to justify your purchases to a bunch of knuts (myself included).
But don't try to BS us either. Cuz you is gonna get called out. Harshly.
 
Does anyone know if we get charged when they ship? I had the money put on hold for a few days and now it's just sitting there. Never ordered from that site before.
 
NorthernSouthpaw said:
I'd guess that they tweaked the design just enough to where Benchmade won't put up a stink. Though I doubt they are overly happy about it.
However, if Hogue would do what is morally right and give Mel Pardue credit for his Griptillian handle design, BM would then be able to go after them legally for IP theft. So it's a nod and a wink kind of thing. This is why Mr. Ritter is treading VERY lightly around the handle design.

Again it's a guess, but to me it makes sense.

I am very much on the fence over this. I do see the minor differences, but holy crap!! do I see the ridiculously obvious similarities.
Anyone who says that isn't a Mel Pardue design is full of what makes the grass grow green. They are hiding behind semantics so they can feel good about purchasing a knife they like guilt free.
It's your money buy what you want. You don't need to justify your purchases to a bunch of knuts (myself included).
But don't try to BS us either. Cuz you is gonna get called out. Harshly.
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Yup. Absolutely agree. If hogue gives credit to who designed the knife they will be in a legal vulnerability.

So screw it, just rip off the design. Bad look but it would appear some here don't care.
 
Accelerator said:
God in heaven, since when have we had so many Social Justice Warriors on this forum? I mean really? This appears to be a great knife at a great price, a new addition to the market, and based on the popularity of the past offering, this should be a home run. I just can’t comprehend why so many people are so up in arms about the perceived politics. Really? If you care so much sbout who did what, where, why and when, get another hobby. This is a solid knife, a solid offering to add to the collection, whether it be a user or collectible, who cares? It’s going to be a good knife, get over the rest, please.
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Hobbies are for those who are passionate. By definition, those who care. If you don't care, perhaps you're the one that's in the wrong place.
 
Accelerator said:
God in heaven, since when have we had so many Social Justice Warriors on this forum? I mean really? This appears to be a great knife at a great price, a new addition to the market, and based on the popularity of the past offering, this should be a home run. I just can’t comprehend why so many people are so up in arms about the perceived politics. Really? If you care so much sbout who did what, where, why and when, get another hobby. This is a solid knife, a solid offering to add to the collection, whether it be a user or collectible, who cares? It’s going to be a good knife, get over the rest, please.
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If you care so much about who's saying what, where, why, and when, why not visit another thread and not come back to this one?
 
Jhansenak47 said:
If I make a Loveless inspired knife, do I have to cite Loveless? What about a Kephart? If you sit down and come up with your own CAD drawings where is the line when you take inspiration from others?
You seem to have already made up your mind. I clearly see the Mel Pardue influence, but you have to remember Benchmade and Mel Pardue likely have some kind of contract. Pardue may have not wanted his name involved to avoid violating contractual clauses. That is obviously speculative on my part. The Ritter RSK MK2 fixed blade knife description clearly states that Kabar allowed Ethan Becker to work with Doug Ritter even though it was against their business interest and they had a license agreement in place.

http://www.dougritter.com/dr_rsk_mk2.htm
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Serious question, how many Loveless patterns do you see that don't credit Loveless? And the vast majority of Kepharts are straight up called Kepharts, so acting like this is a new or unusual standard strikes me as a bit odd.
 
NorthernSouthpaw said:
I'd guess that they tweaked the design just enough to where Benchmade won't put up a stink. Though I doubt they are overly happy about it.
However, if Hogue would do what is morally right and give Mel Pardue credit for his Griptillian handle design, BM would then be able to go after them legally for IP theft. So it's a nod and a wink kind of thing. This is why Mr. Ritter is treading VERY lightly around the handle design.
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I think you are correct, and I also suspect Benchmade realizes they are better off in the long-run by just letting this go. I mean this in the "big picture" view that Ritter's Knife Rights efforts contribute to their overall business even if this new model takes away a few sales from the griptilian. How many auto knives has Benchmade sold in Texas alone since 2013?
 
Did anybody else notice that you can't see the standoffs, except in one picture if you zoom in it appears to be silver. I am referring to the white background picture with two knives, on the lower knife you can barely see part of the pommel standoff. I wonder if they are going to make the serialized first run silver and then switch colors. I guess I will find out when my pre-order ships.

Insipid Moniker said:
Serious question, how many Loveless patterns do you see that don't credit Loveless? And the vast majority of Kepharts are straight up called Kepharts, so acting like this is a new or unusual standard strikes me as a bit odd.
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I didn't act like this is a new and unusual standard, I asked a question that you basically answered with lots of people cite Loveless and Kephart. I asked where the cutoff was when you change the design. How does your answer address that nuance? We already know people cite other people's work.
 
Jhansenak47 said:
Did anybody else notice that you can't see the standoffs, except in one picture if you zoom in it appears to be silver. I am referring to the white background picture with two knives, on the lower knife you can barely see part of the pommel standoff. I wonder if they are going to make the serialized first run silver and then switch colors. I guess I will find out when my pre-order ships.


I didn't act like this is a new and unusual standard, I asked a question that you basically answered with lots of people cite Loveless and Kephart. I asked where the cutoff was when you change the design. How does your answer address that nuance? We already know people cite other people's work.
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You quite literally asked if you have to cite Loveless if you make a Loveless inspired knife. I pointed out that, while you may not HAVE to, that's certainly the accepted standard.

As for the cutoff, you're asking a question that literally cannot be answered, as any answer would be arbitrary by necessity and even measuring something to the cutoff point would be at least somewhat subjective.

But here's a quick standard that I'll happily stand behind. If, at a glance, your design is effectively indistinguishable from another, original design, you should be giving someone credit, money or both.
 
Insipid Moniker said:
You quite literally asked if you have to cite Loveless if you make a Loveless inspired knife. I pointed out that, while you may not HAVE to, that's certainly the accepted standard.

As for the cutoff, you're asking a question that literally cannot be answered, as any answer would be arbitrary by necessity and even measuring something to the cutoff point would be at least somewhat subjective.

But here's a quick standard that I'll happily stand behind. If, at a glance, your design is effectively indistinguishable from another, original design, you should be giving someone credit, money or both.
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Good points. I'd like to add to the last bit. If you are a knife industry icon, championing the rights of knife users, putting out a copy of a competitor's knife is not very becoming. Ganzo gets roasted for doing the same thing. Some folks need to take a look at their standards.
 
Insipid Moniker said:
But here's a quick standard that I'll happily stand behind. If, at a glance, your design is effectively indistinguishable from another, original design, you should be giving someone credit, money or both.
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I don't care that he didn't cite Pardue on this particular handle. It clearly show its roots, but it does have original design features which are different enough for me, i.e. a distinguishable modification of an existing design. Besides whether Pardue should have been cited is failing to see the forest through the trees. The real issue is whether having worked on a collaboration making a copy is shady. Doug Ritter openly admits using all the ideas from the collaboration and is up front about it. He also did design work on the original so it is a gray area. Either way I like the design and think it is an improvement for less money than the Benchmade 551. Best part is I don't have to buy aftermarket scales and get the blade grind I want.
 
Jhansenak47 said:
I don't care that he didn't cite Pardue on this particular handle. It clearly show its roots, but it does have original design features which are different enough for me, i.e. a distinguishable modification of an existing design. Besides whether Pardue should have been cited is failing to see the forest through the trees. The real issue is whether having worked on a collaboration making a copy is shady. Doug Ritter openly admits using all the ideas from the collaboration and is up front about it. He also did design work on the original so it is a gray area. Either way I like the design and think it is an improvement for less money than the Benchmade 551. Best part is I don't have to buy aftermarket scales and get the blade grind I want.
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The first sentence sums up the rest of the post, which is at best an entirely personal and not very coherent argument as to why you don’t have a moral problem buying this knife. I don’t see why one should just blithely accept leaving Pardue out of the credits, or why pointing out this glaring omission is failing to see the woods for the trees. If you choose to ignore it then of course it is easy to dodge the issue and claim there is nothing wrong.

I don’t care that he didn’t cite Pardue on this particular handle
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This is the sum of your post.
 
Does anyone here know for a fact that there isn't some agreement in place between BM/Ritter/Hogue/Pardue?

If you do, let us all know. If you don't, your conjecture is ruining another thread about people who want to talk about/get more info on the knife.

Pretty please, with a cherry on top. Thank you.
 
hectorsn said:
Does anyone here know for a fact that there isn't some agreement in place between BM/Ritter/Hogue/Pardue?

If you do, let us all know. If you don't, your conjecture is ruining another thread about people who want to talk about/get more info on the knife.

Pretty please, with a cherry on top. Thank you.
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Unless we know for a fact there IS an agreement, this conjecture is entirely appropriate. To assume an agreement without any mention or evidence of one really doesn't make much sense. I sincerely hope there is such an agreement. I would absolutely love for any if the involved parties to come in and tell us that this is all settled and everyone is happy with how it went down.

But why wasn't such an agreement mentioned when the knife was announced? When pictures were shown? When people raised concerns in the first thread about it? Here, now in this thread? Mr. Ritter was directly involved in the first thread, why wouldn't he tell us if there was an agreement? The more time passes the more unlikely it seems that any such agreement is in place.
 
hectorsn said:
Does anyone here know for a fact that there isn't some agreement in place between BM/Ritter/Hogue/Pardue?

If you do, let us all know. If you don't, your conjecture is ruining another thread about people who want to talk about/get more info on the knife.

Pretty please, with a cherry on top. Thank you.
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Both benchmade and Ritter did not address the issue when directly asked.

What more info can you get on this knife until people have it in hand. Buy an actual griptilian and I think that should give you a pretty good picture.
 
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