New US Ban on Sale of Elephant Ivory

Dumb question #1 (and it won't get any dumber than this)...

The Fed 's document opens up with the sentence: Today the United States announced a National Strategy for Combating Wildlife Trafficking.

Throughout the rest of the document, they continue to use the words "announce" and "strategy". Closing with: In the coming months, we will take further steps to implement the National Strategy, and will work with the Congress to strengthen existing laws and adopt new ones to enhance our ability to address this global challenge.

Is this just a "proposed" ban that will need to be voted in? If this already passed, wouldn't the document clearly state the effective date, which it doesn't?
 
Doesn't require a vote, merely rules and regs to be written and implemented. From the White House (executive order), not Congress.
 
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Mark Knapp said:
Bill, I have a meeting on Fri. I will try to figure out how and when some of this will be enforced, I will keep you posted.

In the mean time, can you contact your provider and get some paperwork on your ivory? Even your receipt that says "pre-ban elephant ivory" would be helpful. Then it would be up to your provider to show origin, if someone wants to follow a paper trail.
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Thank you Mark I'll be watching for your findings, this Ivory came from a elephant that lived and died about 5 yrs. ago in a US zoo. My supplier purchased the tusks directly from the zoo all according to law at that time. I'll get in touch with him and see what he's been told too and if its anythings different I'll post it up.

Thank you

Bill
 
B . Buxton said:
Thank you Mark I'll be watching for your findings, this Ivory came from a elephant that lived and died about 5 yrs. ago in a US zoo. My supplier purchased the tusks directly from the zoo all according to law at that time. I'll get in touch with him and see what he's been told too and if its anythings different I'll post it up.

Thank you

Bill
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Doug C said:
Maybe a little OT but does anyone know what happens to the ivory from
elephants(tuskers) that die in zoos ?
And yes I know elephants are relatively long lived and it's probably a rare phenomenon.

Doug
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My post above is from the other thread and has been answered.

Thank you, Bill ! :thumbup:

Doug
 
Sent the following email to a well-respected maker here yesterday:

“I see where the US FWS is going to start enforcing a new ban on sale of ivory in the US, but the law apparently is to exempt mammoth and fossil walrus ivory sales, with documentation. John White started a very informative thread yesterday on the new law in the Custom & Handmade Forum of Bladeforums.com.

“With the fossil walrus ivory on the hunter you built for me, I'm wondering if you might be able to provide me with some documentation or an affidavit of when it came into the country or when you acquired it, and stating that it is ancient walrus ivory and not elephant. Whatever you can provide along that line I would appreciate very much, as otherwise I don't think the knife can ever be re-sold legally which of course affects its value. No rush on this if you need to research it before responding--I'm sure you'll be receiving a lot of contacts from customers.”

His response:

“As far as I know undocumented ivory has always been illegal

However I've never bought any ivory except for at a show and it never has paperwork with it.

I really don't have any answers for the question.”

I was not surprised by his response, and think it is probably closer to the norm than the exception. I’m sure a lot of attention will be paid going forward to such documentation, but I'm thinking many past transactions are likely lost in time.
 
Alpha Knife Supply said:
There is an organized effort to minimize the use of plant and animal products. Here are a few recent examples:

1) Enforcing the ban on desert ironwood...

Chuck
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I was not aware of a ban on the use of desert ironwood. Can someone post a link where I could learn about it?

Also, Chuck if you or Mark has a simple explanation and could post it here, that would be much appreciated.

Thanks,
Will
 
Will York said:
Sent the following email to a well-respected maker here yesterday:

“I see where the US FWS is going to start enforcing a new ban on sale of ivory in the US, but the law apparently is to exempt mammoth and fossil walrus ivory sales, with documentation. John White started a very informative thread yesterday on the new law in the Custom & Handmade Forum of Bladeforums.com.


“With the fossil walrus ivory on the hunter you built for me, I'm wondering if you might be able to provide me with some documentation or an affidavit of when it came into the country or when you acquired it, and stating that it is ancient walrus ivory and not elephant. Whatever you can provide along that line I would appreciate very much, as otherwise I don't think the knife can ever be re-sold legally which of course affects its value. No rush on this if you need to research it before responding--I'm sure you'll be receiving a lot of contacts from customers.”

His response:

“As far as I know undocumented ivory has always been illegal

However I've never bought any ivory except for at a show and it never has paperwork with it.

I really don't have any answers for the question.”

I was not surprised by his response, and think it is probably closer to the norm than the exception. I’m sure a lot of attention will be paid going forward to such documentation, but I'm thinking many past transactions are likely lost in time.
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Your sales receipt where it says "Fossil walrus ivory" is sufficient. Whenever I sell a knife the handle material is on the sales receipt, and on the Certificate of Authenticity, that should be enough. If anyone was to ever say to you "How do I know it's not elephant ivory" you say ""We know because it has a core, elephant ivory does not have a core. It has color because it was buried in the ground for thousands of years. Elephant ivory does not have this kind of color" Say it politely with no attitude. If that still doesn't help, ask to speak to that persons supervisor.

If the material was bought from me, the maker or the owner of the knife ( the customs agent or USF&W agent) can call me on the phone, I will look up the transaction and vouch for the material. I can provide the name of the Inuit person who dug it up if need be.
 
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Nothing exciting to report yet, I am exploring 3 different avenues. "News at eleven"
 
Here's a quote, extracted from an article about the ban, which gives at least some insight into the mindset with respect to at least one part of enforcement:

"Still, the Fish and Wildlife Service won't seek to prosecute individuals, such as those who try to sell ivory trinkets they inherited from their parents, said Ashe. Instead, the agency will target its law enforcement efforts toward organized trafficking rings that profit from the illicit trade."

Dan Ashe is the director of the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service
 
I personally do not think there will be a witch hunt that collectors need to be that worried about

Dealers that have large ivory collections that they are advertising on line might get some heat especially for selling on the Internet and shipping across state lines

If you are shipping abroad or internally mentioning that what you are shipping has ivory could throw up a red flag etc

I do not think storm troopers will come marching into Blade and start confiscating Knives

But do not underestimate the ignorance that will be shown by well meaning fish and game officers.

Point is I have dealt with cities permit and protected animals and there is rarely a grey line with these folks
 
Joe, I suspect there will be a presence at Blade beginning this year or next, depending on how soon everything's put to writing. As for dealers, I think they have the most to worry about, especially those who mis-characterize the materials.
 
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betzner said:
I suspect there will be a presence at Blade beginning this year or next, depending on how soon everything's put to writing. As for dealers, I think they have the most to worry about, especially those who mis-characterize the materials.
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You mean the dealers that call elephant ivory fossil mammoth and tortoise amber? The Feds May be dumb but they aren't that dumb. How long is that going to fly? And, more importantly, is it really worth the risk? Kind of like shipping a $5000 knife to Europe and declaring a value of $90 and saying it's a "camping tool". If I were a customs agent every package marked camping tool would be opened and inspected and I imagine the Feds will attempt to buy a knife with "amber" or fossil mammoth to find out what's up with that item. If it were your job wouldn't you?
 
I think Joe is right generally about no "witch hunts" but Federal agents can be zealous, too, especially when they want to kick off a new initiative with a big bang of publicity. And Atlanta is the location of 1 of 7 U.S. Fish and Wildlife Sevice Regional Offices nationally. This also brings up an opportunity if the right people wanted to pursue it: Request a presentation and Q&A session with the Regional Special Agent in Charge. There's no hiding from the issue so it behooves everyone affected to be well informed. Why not get it from the source?
 
martinr said:
If it were your job wouldn't you?
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And another thing, I'm not sure if it's been mentioned yet or not but..
I'd be willing to bet that they read info off of the most popular internet knife forum on the 'net, specifically
the Custom & Handmade knife subforum here.
Just my 2 cents.

Doug
 
Here s the problem

They d not even know we exist or how big the Ivory knife handle thing is

But when we reach out with well meaning questions we in turn will be telling them who we are and that we exist.....they will than react

That's how things work....... Its a shame
 
Can someone explain to me how prohibiting the sale across state lines in a country where elephants are not indigenous makes sense? Am I missing something?
 
"Here s the problem They d not even know we exist or how big the Ivory knife handle thing is But when we reach out with well meaning questions we in turn will be telling them who we are and that we exist.....they will than react That's how things work....... Its a shame "

Bit paranoid in my view. The FWS does know about the use of exotic natural materials for knives. They made themselves a presence at a high end East coast knife show and have stopped Blade Show knives from coming into the country. A quick internet search will show even the dullest FWS employee that ivory is used in knives.

Remember this is the US, the government is You and Me...i.e. Us :) not Them.
 
brownshoe said:
"Here s the problem They d not even know we exist or how big the Ivory knife handle thing is But when we reach out with well meaning questions we in turn will be telling them who we are and that we exist.....they will than react That's how things work....... Its a shame "

Bit paranoid in my view. The FWS does know about the use of exotic natural materials for knives. They made themselves a presence at a high end East coast knife show and have stopped Blade Show knives from coming into the country. A quick internet search will show even the dullest FWS employee that ivory is used in knives.

Remember this is the US, the government is You and Me...i.e. Us :) not Them.
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Maybe I am a bit paranoid :)

But my experience with anything to do with any fish and game questions especially when it has to do with cities permitted animals is not met with an answer but met with trying to use info from you to get you in trouble :)
 
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